Victory smite nerf [dev1064]

[MarkovChain]

Being as stringing pummel was already better, I fail to see this as a lool pup nerf.

Random statement is random ? Victory smite is much better than stringing pummel.

Let's say you got 170str on VS and SP

Global WSD - without da/ta
VS=6.35*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.6*150) )=1191.89500
SP=5.85*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.32*150)+0.32*80 )=1011.114000
Globald WSD wih 21%DA 3% TA
VS=(3.35*(1+0.03+(1-0.03)*0.21)+3)*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.6*170) )=1338.844391
SP=(1.85*(1+0.03+(1-0.03)*0.21)+4)*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.32*170)+0.32*80 )=1085.840510

Do you still fail to see why it's a PUP nerf ? Shijin is now probably better for monk only cos they can use spharai. The only option for pup is to use the mythic which is not better than empy anyway !

[Zhronne]

Random statement is random ? Victory smite is much better than stringing pummel.

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

[Atoreis]

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

[Dfoley]

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

I see, one of those lol-oldschoolers who qq'ed VS was better than their Final Heaven?

If nothing else, this is a monk nerf way more than a pup, because it makes SP even better than VS instead of just marginally better (read old threads instead of your lol-math), which means mnks have to use SS / Assurans fist, while pups can continue using a ws that was already better then the monk available ones. Not to mention pups have access to SS as well.

How do you not see this a monk nerf WAY more than a PUP?

[MarkovChain]

(read old threads instead of your lol-math)

It's not math it's common sense. FTP are mod are knows for years.

At lleast I'm not suggestiing MNKs to use asuran fists with vere like you do... This nerf is at worst -10% damage on vere which still let it surpass stringing pummel witout accounting for ODD. If you account for ODD then vere is still better used with VS.

[MarkovChain]

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

I've never seen you math out anything beside through parses. do it. Let's have fun.

[Atoreis]

I've never seen you math out anything beside through parses. do it. Let's have fun.

You misunderstood me.
I dont think you are wrong about VS vs SS or VS vs SP. I just explained him how you see this situation. Instead of being sad that your 95Veret is being nerfed for situation where you would use it you are rather glad because so many MNKs are now worse than you by not having Spharai aka you feel more elitist.

Also by saying its only pup nerf you screaming "I have Spharai!" and smile to yourself that you are a little special. How do I know all this? Because I am the same and I understand you. Yes Im guilty I felt elitist with my 95 ukon and they nerfing my toy.

[Zhronne]

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

Ah lol
Waiting for someone with Glanzfaust to make fun of him then :P
back IT now


[whine]
Q_Q I don't wanna merit Shijin spiral!
[/whine]


@Dfoley
Yeah my point exactely. If anything Stringing Pummel will just become even better since the small gap between it and Vsmite will increase.

[MarkovChain]

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

Verethragna is still best used with victory smite, stop with you false assumptions. ODD is what makes it worth it. If your best weapon is verethragna, nothing happened wether you are monk or pup, however, with dynamis II, and level increase, aspharai becomes a realistic option that is only given to monk, and due to Shijin Spiral study, it's clear that this WS only doesn't suck with spharai. In other word :

prior to today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS
today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS with -10% damage

prior to today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS
today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS with -0% damage

It's a PUP nerf.

[Spiritreaver]

Verethragna is still best used with victory smite, stop with you false assumptions. ODD is what makes it worth it. If your best weapon is verethragna, nothing happened wether you are monk or pup, however, with dynamis II, and level increase, aspharai becomes a realistic option that is only given to monk, and due to Shijin Spiral study, it's clear that this WS only doesn't suck with spharai. In other word :

prior to today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS
today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS with -10% damage

prior to today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS
today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS with -0% damage

It's a PUP nerf.

For it to be a PUP specific nerf, Stringing Pummel would needs be nerfed.

And as my SPs were more or lese equal to my Victory Smites on PUP, and after this VS change i'm sure SP will beat VS on PUP, i still am not seeing this PUP specific nerf.