SE's stance on Cure V

[Neisan_Quetz]

English isn't first language etc.

[Spiritreaver]

English isn't first language etc.

Most likely, but if you're gonna storm into a thread like that, take the time to fine-tune your syntax a bit i say.

[ManaKing]

I think RDMs not getting Cure V is the correct step so long as they are going to adjust the formulas for curing magic. I'm much more interested in my character's native cure magic actually being a factor in my play, as opposed to be being equally matched with everyone that is /'almost anything with curing magic'.

Full-time curing? No thanks, I average around a C- in that, so I'll just make sure to contribute to healing while doing other things.

[saevel]

Maybe i misread most of saevel's posts in this thread; but isnt he doing exactly what you are saying to do in the bolded bit of your post?

Their just hating. Lots of haters on here, been that way since 2004, gonna be that way till the game servers shutdown.

Their the people who the moment they see a RDM with a sword they will freak out and go nuts. Their under the belief that RDM's have a hidden job trait that gives the monster +5 levels, 200 defense 1000 attack and 300tp/tick regain if we hit it. Any attempt to say otherwise has them frothing at the mouth and calling all sorts of insults. And what really gets under their skins isn't just a RDM daring to melee, but one who actually succeeds at a hybrid play style. They go crazy, spew insults and go into a state of mental shock and denial. I've learned over nearly 8 years to just tune them out and mute whenever possible.

[Kitkat]

You just talked about TP burn parties, we're talking about end game style events. MP wasn't an issue because you'd have a BRD and RDM around for Ballads + Refresh. Shells eventually asked themselves why bring two "healers" just for one to refresh the other and started to drop the WHM in favor of adding another support job to the tank party. This mentality started with the melee parties (DD DD DD DD BRD RDM) and eventually made it to the tank party. All of "end game" was turning into a TP burn zerg fest. That is why SE made the lights / proc system in Abyssea, it was to counter the mentality of "just bring more melee" for all events. Or did you miss all the Samurai hating from other jobs during pre-abyssea era?

Sigh, first off...you still need to learn to read through the entire post before presuming what the entirety of it is.

As for why WHM was phased out in the past, it most certainly was due to mp-related reasons. Where a rdm could simply use Dalm+Relic head or Morrigans+relic head +refresh and easily handle TP burn pt's for hours on end, a whm would run out of mp. Whm was more useful in areas that had refresh support for them, but since 80+ this has been reversed to whm taking the place they were meant to as primary healer.

SE encouraged this style of game-play by introducing content that made traditional parties prior to ToAU obsolete because it was "too slow." Mobs also gained resistance to SC making them less worth-while to plan for/around over tossing a bunch of DD's at it. Additional changes to 2hand stat scaling (from .5 to 1.0 then down to .75) also compounded this as they didn't adjust previous content in reflection of this making it easy to toss DD at it. Then they further compounded this by instating time-limits on killing things, meaning killing faster was preferred over killing slower. These are all changes that SE instigated through various changes over a span of one expansion pack. Naturally players will adapt to this mentality in response to SE making it easier for them to do this. Then again I guess it slipped your mind how horrible 2hander performed prior to all this which included Sam and forced them to use /thf to make sure those big damage one-hitters landed with a punch. Do try to remember the entire span of the game and all aspects before you simply say players made it that way because they didn't, they adapted to that way....SE made it that way.

The only way Cure V is unbalanced is if it was assencionable, which it is not. Thus it is only useful for curing one target for massive amount of HP and virtually no hate. Due to the function of most endgame content as of now, even rdm/sch isn't going to become game-breaking with this spell. Since it still can't fill the role of a whm due to limited AOE cure spells, lack of whm specific buff enhancements, and various other whm specific qualities including JA. So, no...rdm will never outshine whm again due to these various reasons even with Cure V. Does this mean I think rdm should get it? No, because of other reasons that are outside of the endgame utility functions. Hence why I have supported this tid-bit from camate's post:

However, the solution isn’t to limit the functionality of those jobs that assist with curing. So one possibility we’re considering is increasing the influence of the healing skill and MND, as well as increasing the HP recovery amount more than it is currently.

[Vaness]

Their just hating. Lots of haters on here, been that way since 2004, gonna be that way till the game servers shutdown.

Their the people who the moment they see a RDM with a sword they will freak out and go nuts. Their under the belief that RDM's have a hidden job trait that gives the monster +5 levels, 200 defense 1000 attack and 300tp/tick regain if we hit it. Any attempt to say otherwise has them frothing at the mouth and calling all sorts of insults. And what really gets under their skins isn't just a RDM daring to melee, but one who actually succeeds at a hybrid play style. They go crazy, spew insults and go into a state of mental shock and denial. I've learned over nearly 8 years to just tune them out and mute whenever possible.

Holly shit, you assume alot.

#1 I don't know you so I can't obviously not be "hatin" and I am not calling you out on personal vendetta or anything.

#2 We aren't freaking out because we see you with a sword, we freak out because you think you are a war and your post seems to lead towards a person that don't care about anything except how supposely leet you are as a melee.

#3 RDM always has been an hybrid job, being able to melee decently, cure/support and nukes.It's not JUST melee or just healer or just nuker, it's an awesome combo of all those quality together.

#4 lol just lol

I'm going to leave this here because Saevel retardness has eaten all my braincells, now I understand why everyone tells me to stay away from official forums.

[saevel]

l????

Seriously what does that have to do with this? Your going off the deep end into the woods and over the mountain here. I'm willing to have a decent discussion / debate but not your starting to freak out.

There is nothing here that hasn't been gone over already for the past year or so. SE doesn't want RDM to have Cure V because it'll make them too good at healing vs White Mage, they also do not want SCH to have it for the same reason. The dev's are pretty much the closet thing this game has to a deity, you kinda can't argue with them. If you dislike their reasoning then cancel your account and go somewhere else.

You tried arguing with TP burn arguments back when RDM was prioritized over WHM for merits, this was done for MP reasons due to RDM being an energizer bunny back then. End Game fights were not 2~4 hour marathon fights, WHM didn't need to maintain an infinite supply of MP, only enough to last for one fight. Also you had BRD's and RDM's maintaining the WHM's MP pool, until groups found out that they could kick the WHM and replace them with a COR or another BRD for similiar results, even on HNMs. Players are what turned the game into melee zerg fests, not SE.

[Neisan_Quetz]

SE released TP burnable fodder mobs and more HNMs heavily resistant to magic, wtf did they think was going to happen, people were going to Magic burst Greater Colibri?

For exp and most mobs that didn't have dangerous AoE only turned into a 'melee fest' as you put it because they (players) finally realized SC+MB was and still is bad damage compared to simply WS at 100%.

[Kitkat]

Seriously what does that have to do with this? Your going off the deep end into the woods and over the mountain here. I'm willing to have a decent discussion / debate but not your starting to freak out.

No, I am not freaking out. I am actually explaining in a reasonable and logical way just how and why whm was phased out pre-abyssea. The function of WHM at that time was not needed due to the build of the game and why rdm filled the role meant for whm.

There is nothing here that hasn't been gone over already for the past year or so. SE doesn't want RDM to have Cure V because it'll make them too good at healing vs White Mage, they also do not want SCH to have it for the same reason. The dev's are pretty much the closet thing this game has to a deity, you kinda can't argue with them. If you dislike their reasoning then cancel your account and go somewhere else.

I would hope you are kidding given what all whm has gained since 75 that is retro-active into as early as lvl 50 for whm. Rdm can no longer hope to compete with a whm due to passive traits, gear that complements barspells that not only surpass what rdm can give but up to 20, but also allows for straight out negation. Then you need to take into consideration what endgame content is all about compared to 75 endgame. Rdm can't handle these fights now even with cure V meaning you are blowing this way way way out of proportion to what the two jobs are capable side by side.

You tried arguing with TP burn arguments back when RDM was prioritized over WHM for merits, this was done for MP reasons due to RDM being an energizer bunny back then. End Game fights were not 2~4 hour marathon fights, WHM didn't need to maintain an infinite supply of MP, only enough to last for one fight. Also you had BRD's and RDM's maintaining the WHM's MP pool, until groups found out that they could kick the WHM and replace them with a COR or another BRD for similiar results, even on HNMs. Players are what turned the game into melee zerg fests, not SE.

No, I didn't argue actually, I produced facts as to why this became the norm and Whm became "obsolete." By your rationale, apparently players introduced cor into the game and made mobs easier to kill thus must have been the players making the content. Rather asinine to disregard the fact the SE was the ones who added the jobs, made the mobs, created all the content for the game then waited to see what players would do with it before making any further changes. Don't kid yourself, players adapt to the changes made to the game by the developers, thus it is the developers fault for making content and situations where a whm was less useful than a rdm for healing. This clearly shows that content is too easy meaning the requirement of certain jobs over a select few is unimportant. This is adaptability, which can further be seen when you look at today's endgame where a whm is in their rightful spot and a rdm can't hold a candle to it no matter how hard they try. One spell will not, and cannot, change this.

[saevel]

No, I am not freaking out. I am actually explaining in a reasonable and logical way just how and why whm was phased out pre-abyssea. The function of WHM at that time was not needed due to the build of the game and why rdm filled the role meant for whm.



I would hope you are kidding given what all whm has gained since 75 that is retro-active into as early as lvl 50 for whm. Rdm can no longer hope to compete with a whm due to passive traits, gear that complements barspells that not only surpass what rdm can give but up to 20, but also allows for straight out negation. Then you need to take into consideration what endgame content is all about compared to 75 endgame. Rdm can't handle these fights now even with cure V meaning you are blowing this way way way out of proportion to what the two jobs are capable side by side.



No, I didn't argue actually, I produced facts as to why this became the norm and Whm became "obsolete." By your rationale, apparently players introduced cor into the game and made mobs easier to kill thus must have been the players making the content. Rather asinine to disregard the fact the SE was the ones who added the jobs, made the mobs, created all the content for the game then waited to see what players would do with it before making any further changes. Don't kid yourself, players adapt to the changes made to the game by the developers, thus it is the developers fault for making content and situations where a whm was less useful than a rdm for healing. This clearly shows that content is too easy meaning the requirement of certain jobs over a select few is unimportant. This is adaptability, which can further be seen when you look at today's endgame where a whm is in their rightful spot and a rdm can't hold a candle to it no matter how hard they try. One spell will not, and cannot, change this.

You got blinders on so this discussion can't go any further. Short story, the numbers have already been run and the gap between RDM / SCH and WHM is very small. Many of the additions you speak of were added at 75 and they didn't make a lick of difference. I've already stated that it doesn't matter who's the best at healing only what is the minimum required to get a win. There is no argument that WHM cures the best / hardest and that a RDM with Cure V would just be spamming it using brute MP / healing. The argument is that the only thing needed for a win is Cure V, Erase, -na, Haste and some form of MP recovery. Everything else only makes it easier but leaders do not care how much stress / difficult the healer is under, they only want a win with the minimum required.