SE's stance on Cure V

[Dantedmc]

This is all about what you can get away with, currently our tank party is PLD PLD RDM BRD WHM <other>. The BRD and RDM (me) are there to support the healer and tanks. What people are wanting is that the RDM gets Cure V and thus you can kick the WHM out for another melee or BRD. This gets very important when you start talking MNK tanks as super buffing them actually makes a difference. The melee parties are usually DD DD DD DD DD WHM, the BLM / SMN party usually has the COR inside it. Giving RDM Cure V will replace the DD's WHM with a RDM.

What exactly is the rdm doing in the tank party(I'm assuming this is voidwatch)? That's the first job I would take out. Your Refresh II isn't needed. I even tell the brd to prioritize giving me scherzo over ballads as the whm if the brd is busy because mp doesn't run out in that event.

Your melee parties also seemed messed up. It's supposed to be DD DD DD DD whm cor/brd/smn in the last slot. Putting a cor in the blm pt is a waste. What exactly is it going to give them? In the melee pt cor can give tact / misers or the brd can scherzo + something, the smn can give EA in either the tank or dd pt. Also why would it be bad if the DD's pt could substitute a sch or rdm in for a whm? There are different types of DD in the party why can't there be different healers?

And to the guy who's practicing selective reading. MP was never the issue with WHM, RDM or SCH for healing. The problem was time. We can only cast a single spell at a time, and those spells tend to have annoying cast / recast times. A RDM can simply do more then a WHM in any given block of time, the WHM still heals better / harder but it was the RDM who could spam Cure IV / III / Haste / Erase / Paralyna / Silena faster (back at 75). Doing so game the RDM player a huge headache and we constantly talked about being "burned out", but LS leaders didn't care about that.

Now I'm not agreeing with your statement that mp wasn't the issue, but considering whm has divine benision / +2 legs and thus capped casting time / recast on nas / erases I don't see how rdm will be casting faster on that. Whm can also spam cure fine now when it needs to. Haste is subbable /whm and soon to be /rdm and even then the whm can keep up fine.

Thus if you give RDM Cure V they'll be able to spam Cure V / Cure IV / <everything else> faster then a WHM can. WHM is still the better healer, RDM becomes the more versatile healer.

Whm can get plenty of CCT so no rdm will not be spamming cures faster and what exactly is <everything else>?

[Greatguardian]

Wait, Saevel's Melee RDM/NIN is in the tank party in Voidwatch? Seriously?

Oh, that's funny.

[ManaKing]

Main Curing on a RDM isn't interesting in the slightest to me. I'm fine with low-man healing and back up healing. If Cure 3 and 4 are adjusted to be less outdated then mission accomplished.

The other neglected parts of RDM are much more of a concern to myself and others. Enfeebling would be my primary concern at this point.

[saevel]

What exactly is the rdm doing in the tank party(I'm assuming this is voidwatch)? That's the first job I would take out. Your Refresh II isn't needed. I even tell the brd to prioritize giving me scherzo over ballads as the whm if the brd is busy because mp doesn't run out in that event.

Your melee parties also seemed messed up. It's supposed to be DD DD DD DD whm cor/brd/smn in the last slot. Putting a cor in the blm pt is a waste. What exactly is it going to give them? In the melee pt cor can give tact / misers or the brd can scherzo + something, the smn can give EA in either the tank or dd pt. Also why would it be bad if the DD's pt could substitute a sch or rdm in for a whm? There are different types of DD in the party why can't there be different healers?




Now I'm not agreeing with your statement that mp wasn't the issue, but considering whm has divine benision / +2 legs and thus capped casting time / recast on nas / erases I don't see how rdm will be casting faster on that. Whm can also spam cure fine now when it needs to. Haste is subbable /whm and soon to be /rdm and even then the whm can keep up fine.



Whm can get plenty of CCT so no rdm will not be spamming cures faster and what exactly is <everything else>?

It is VW and you obviously have no idea what your doing. Melee's spend most of their time outside aoe range unless their called in to proc something or we're going to proc HV !! for the blitz light bonus. The RDM is there to Refresh the WHM and the PLDs, and yes the refresh is needed along with our G.horn BRD. The COR is there to do the same to the BLMs and SMNs so they can proc lights. The only buffer I'd put with the melee's is a BRD for the -PDT song for when they have to proc something.

Your suggestions sound like a zerg run, which we sometimes do when we just want a win and don't care about drops. Then it's PD and swapping a 2hr BRD around with SCH's embrava. Otherwise you focus on procing weakness's to build lights, you do want drops yes?

[saevel]

Last three WS's last run we did. Just did SS of what was in the log after we won and were warping out.



Let the hating and name calling begin.

[Dantedmc]

It is VW and you obviously have no idea what your doing. Melee's spend most of their time outside aoe range unless their called in to proc something or we're going to proc HV !! for the blitz light bonus. The RDM is there to Refresh the WHM and the PLDs, and yes the refresh is needed along with our G.horn BRD. The COR is there to do the same to the BLMs and SMNs so they can proc lights. The only buffer I'd put with the melee's is a BRD for the -PDT song for when they have to proc something.

Your suggestions sound like a zerg run, which we sometimes do when we just want a win and don't care about drops. Then it's PD and swapping a 2hr BRD around with SCH's embrava. Otherwise you focus on procing weakness's to build lights, you do want drops yes?

That's funny because the groups I go with get capped lights most of the time unless there's a proc that we don't have. I've also beaten all the VWNMS except Aello and one tier2 because I haven't been able to get a group for them.The melee are allowed to go in whenever the nm is hq procced and their fanatic's is up as well as when they have a proc called or when damage needs to be done to take down the nm. As long as the DD have appropriate hp gear and/or -dt gear they can stay in there for a while. One time the mnk pt wiped to kaggen and the drk in my pt tanked kaggen until it was dead because he had appropriate hp and -dt gear.

I'll say it again. You're fooling yourself if you think someone needs your refresh especially with a ghorn bard. So your saying a whm needs:

7 from rdm
mballad 3 + 4 (ghorn / +2 legs) / mballad 2+4 or 13 tic refresh from the brd
a non ghorn brd can give 3 +2 (+1 ballad harp / +2 legs) and 2 +2 or 9 tic. (Though personally I tell the brd to give me scherzo / mages 3 or just scherzo when busy. I only tell the brd to give me double ballads when I get weakened)
the refresh that the whm already has and +2 legs
2x lucid ethers IIs / manapowders that get restored everytime you get a hq proc and have a chance with a nq.

Your whm must REALLY suck if it needs all that.

I'll say it again cor in the blm pt is a waste. The cor can give 2-4 refresh and some mab or fc to the blms(I may be forgetting some piece of gear that will raise this amout). Where as it could give regain / save tp to the DD pt. That along with monarch's drink and the voidwrought atma make tp gain crazy. The blms should also have the kis granting 2x lucid ether and 2x manapowder that can be restored. The lucid ethers are 1000 mp and the manapowders are 25% mp to anyone in the radius. 50% / person x 6 = 300% of someone's mp pool. Blm can also have up to 7 tic gear refresh and convert / refresh from /rdm.

I also like who you didn't answer the whole part of my quote talking about what rdm is going to spam faster than whm.

[Kitkat]

Last three WS's last run we did. Just did SS of what was in the log after we won and were warping out.

Let the hating and name calling begin.

There is a "New Topic" option on the forums if you want to post shots of melee damage. This is a topic about the ever-lasting talk of Cure V, so do keep on topic about it. If someone is snipping remarks about your play style, ignore them rather than fall for their baiting of you and stay on topic.


On-Topic: While I've seen the OP, I don't understand why people keep hanging up on the cure potency when that quote also states they are looking into possibly changing how healing is affected by Mnd and Skill as well as adjusting the hard-caps which were originally meant for lvl 75 cap. I would hope these adjustments have enmity adjustments so that the spells remain equal to the enmity they are now rather than increasing in enmity. I would much rather see a Cure IV doing upwards of ~700hp and Cure III doing around 350~400 range ideally.

As for why WHM was phased out in the past, it most certainly was due to mp-related reasons. Where a rdm could simply use Dalm+Relic head or Morrigans+relic head +refresh and easily handle TP burn pt's for hours on end, a whm would run out of mp. Whm was more useful in areas that had refresh support for them, but since 80+ this has been reversed to whm taking the place they were meant to as primary healer.

While giving Rdm Cure V would not absolutely unbalance this, being as Cure V still is not substantial enough to handling the AOE happy behavior of NM's theses days, it would phase Whm out of certain aspects of play and further encourage low-man activities. This is assuming the fact that full potency geared whm Cure V does double what Cure IV does currently at roughly 1.55x the mp cost of Cure IV and very little hate generation.

I think one of the main concerns of giving rdm cure V isn't so much party utilization as it is self-sustaining utilization for those who do enjoy soloing, much to the same reason of higher regen spells.

[Dohati]

take it from a guy who has whm lvled, but not sch or rdm and never plans to lvl either of those jobs: please give rdm cure5. i guess sch can have it too but i don't think they need it nearly as bad since they can play blm-style so much better than rdm.

[Vaness]

Last three WS's last run we did. Just did SS of what was in the log after we won and were warping out.



Let the hating and name calling begin.

That's very cool, but when you do VW you don't want DMG you want procc so you can possibly (like never) get decent drop.

Now pls go back with the whm and cast refresh and haste for once, kthx.

Nice try though.

[saevel]

There is a "New Topic" option on the forums if you want to post shots of melee damage. This is a topic about the ever-lasting talk of Cure V, so do keep on topic about it. If someone is snipping remarks about your play style, ignore them rather than fall for their baiting of you and stay on topic.


On-Topic: While I've seen the OP, I don't understand why people keep hanging up on the cure potency when that quote also states they are looking into possibly changing how healing is affected by Mnd and Skill as well as adjusting the hard-caps which were originally meant for lvl 75 cap. I would hope these adjustments have enmity adjustments so that the spells remain equal to the enmity they are now rather than increasing in enmity. I would much rather see a Cure IV doing upwards of ~700hp and Cure III doing around 350~400 range ideally.

As for why WHM was phased out in the passed, it most certainly was due to mp-related reasons. Where a rdm could simply use Dalm+Relic head or Morrigans+relic head +refresh and easily handle TP burn pt's for hours on end, a whm would run out of mp. Whm was more useful in areas that had refresh support for them, but since 80+ this has been reversed to whm taking the place they were meant to as primary healer.

While giving Rdm Cure V would not absolutely unbalance this, being as Cure V still is not substantial enough to handling the AOE happy behavior of NM's theses days, it would phase Whm out of certain aspects of play and further encourage low-man activities. This is assuming the fact that full potency geared whm Cure V does double what Cure IV does currently at roughly 1.55x the mp cost of Cure IV and very little hate generation.

I think one of the main concerns of giving rdm cure V isn't so much party utilization as it is self-sustaining utilization for those who do enjoy soloing, much to the same reason of higher regen spells.

You just talked about TP burn parties, we're talking about end game style events. MP wasn't an issue because you'd have a BRD and RDM around for Ballads + Refresh. Shells eventually asked themselves why bring two "healers" just for one to refresh the other and started to drop the WHM in favor of adding another support job to the tank party. This mentality started with the melee parties (DD DD DD DD BRD RDM) and eventually made it to the tank party. All of "end game" was turning into a TP burn zerg fest. That is why SE made the lights / proc system in Abyssea, it was to counter the mentality of "just bring more melee" for all events. Or did you miss all the Samurai hating from other jobs during pre-abyssea era?

I'm personally hoping SE adjusts the formula's so that Healing Magic skill actually means something. That's half the problem now with giving RDM Cure V. We'd hit the softcap same as WHM and the scaling to hard cap is so crappy that we end up 20~30 HP behind a WHM with the same cure pot. That shouldn't happen ~ever~. WHM should have a built in JT for enhancing cure potency along with other perks. WHM should be able to zap off multiple status ailments. But until that happens giving RDM Cure V would just turn it into a WHM-1 again and ToAU 75 era mentality would repeat.