Add New Jobs to Relic Weapons - Past Due for an Explanation

[Winrie]

Your wait is over.

Annihilator - would be hot sauce on cor for mobs that resist WF which are more common than you would think.

Excal - would be extremely situational I imagine. Maybe it would be cool with a monster HP build?

Mandau - and twashtar are pretty competitive. Someone theory crafted that the 90 Mandau just barely beat out Twashtar because you didn't need to spam a low damage WS to get the relic triple damage procs and this was when the proc rate was 5% instead of 12%. Oh and the 95 version of mandau is about 100mil less than Twashtar.

Spharai - I'm no PUP but I imagine Stringing pummels from a +48d +35 att weapon might rip holes in the universe and with a new triple damage proc rate of 12% the ODD aftermath from VS might not be that big of an issue. The only down side is the higher delay. If someone feels like doing the math go ahead. Also you run into the 100mil cheaper level 95 weapon here too.

Clasutrum - lol staff DD. Moot point.

Im missing the resistant to wildfire mobs? where are they. Even so Wildfire is AGI and MAB modifier + ODD, how can you say an annihilator can beat it or even be in the same field as an armageddon for corsair, saying that is like saying ranger can be better with an arma instead of annihilator.

The mandau bit i will agree on, but it only costs 100 mil more to 95 a twash if youre a fool, and upgrade process isnt even the debate atm. Once again ODD will trump mandau, +35 attack doesnt save it.

h2h relic on pup, who cares about pup, they need all the help they can get at the moment.

Excalibur on blue mage? Im not even going to try to argue that one, pointless to try.

Either way it all revolves back to my 1st comment, you have ODD on empys, you dont on relics, most every empy is focused on the jobs that can use them, along with the ODD they possess on ws, if you cant take the few days it takes to 90 an empy for your job why would you ask for it to be stamped on a relic when its weaker for your job and takes a bit longer. Troll it, argue it, it doesnt matter in the end to be honest. Youre better off with an empy for crap like blu cor dnc ect.

[Raksha]

Im missing the resistant to wildfire mobs? where are they.

http://www.bg-wiki.net/bg/Ildebrann

Also, wouldn't custom made relics basically be like mythics? We already have mythics.

[Briarb19]

you have ODD on empys, you dont on relics, most every empy is focused on the jobs that can use them, along with the ODD they possess on ws, if you cant take the few days it takes to 90 an empy for your job why would you ask for it to be stamped on a relic when its weaker for your job and takes a bit longer. Troll it, argue it, it doesnt matter in the end to be honest.

I'm assuming you don't realize (or forgot) that relics get double/triple damage on melee swings WITHOUT the aftermath that Empy requires for the same effect, so I won't go into that subject anymore.

And again, you're failing to acknowledge that SE has continued plans to improve relics and also apparently seems (given the latest 90-95 Empy trial) to be attempting to balance the time required to complete a fully upgraded Relic and Empy.

[Sotek]

You'd really rather add SCH to claustrum than give it a weapon it might actually want?

As a Scholar, no.

As someone with a reasonable sense of game balance, yes.

Giving Scholar, Dancer, Puppetmaster, Corsair and Blue Mage unique Relic weapons that are more like Mythic weapons than anything else is completely unfair to every other job. Since we're taking Claustrum as the example, Black Mage and Summoner would be royally screwed if Scholar got something completely different that was actually designed for the job.

Sure there are people saying "Giving Dancer Mandau would be unfair", but I do hope they realize that the apparent alternative is "Give Dancer it's Mythic weapon with the ease of a Relic". Except you know, unlike a Mythic weapon it will have a random double~triple damage multiplier on full time rather than after every 300TP Weapon skill as well as probably higher base damage to go along side whatever Dancer specific boost people seem to think belongs on Relic weapons. Yeah, that's a better alternative - give Dancer a Relic weapon that's effectively Mandau and Terpsichore in one that's as easy to obtain as Mandau.

[Alhanelem]

As someone with a reasonable sense of game balance, yes.

how does adding a job that doesn't want a weapon to a weapon add to game balance?

if jobs don't want something, adding them to that something doesn't help anything. Every job being represented on something is not the same thing as balancing the game. Balancing it would be having something *useful* to every job.

It is reasonable to argue that it's not "fair" that certain jobs can't get a relic weapon. It's not reasonable to argue that it's not "balanced." They're not the same thing.

[Sotek]

I'm assuming you didn't read past the second sentence since you missed the entire point of my post.

[Alhanelem]

I'm assuming you didn't read past the second sentence since you missed the entire point of my post.

Nope, I read the whole post. Perhaps your point was too shrouded in secrecy to discern if you feel it wasn't understood.

I never said new weapons should be "more like mythic weapons," only that they could offer different stats on a similar order of magnitude. In fact, I never even described what their stats should be at all.

let's take the staff for instance. "Gate of Tartarus" has a refresh aftermath. Not that bad inofitself and something some SMN could make use of, but not special enough to justify nuking in the weapon so you keep your TP on SCH. "Magical Weaponskill of Coolness" for SCH could have MAB as an aftermath, and itself do magic damage. a SMN would still prefer Claustrum over the staff SCH gets; a weapon with such a WS woudn't be imbalanced to that job. Perhaps a bit to BLM, but I'm just thinking aloud.

The real point here is I never specified what the stats of the weapons for those new jobs should be, and you're acting like I'm saying "make these weapons more awesome than the others."

[Sotek]

Considering my third sentence pretty much sums up my entire point, I'm going to go with "You can't read".

Oh so you're suggesting a Claustrum Version 2.0? Well let me say, I don't want that either.

[Alhanelem]

Considering my third sentence pretty much sums up my entire point, I'm going to go with "You can't read".

Considering you were making assumptions based on things I didn't say, I'd say the same thing about you- except it's more "reading things that aren't there."

Your "point" is invalid because I never posed the suggestion that SE make new "mythic weapons" and call them relics.

[Sotek]

Haha, really?

New weapons could be made to better suit thew new jobs when in more than one case, the relic weapon doesn't really do much for the associated job.

Weapons to better suit the jobs rather than Relic weapons which generally don't. You're exact words.

Claustrum does nothing for Summoner or Black Mage. Refresh on a Weapon skill is worthless. Likewise Mandau does nothing to suit Thief, bar being a dagger; only thing Thievish on that is the Critical effect on the Weapon skill, in which case lets take Gungnir - Shock Spikes has absolutely nothing to do with Dragoon.

To actually take your suggestion though, giving a Scholar a new staff with a MAB producing Weapon Skill (I really should point out that's what Omniscience does on our Mythic with 200TP) would still be unfair to Summoner and Black Mage. Here's an idea, SE can adjust Claustrum so it's actually useful - in which case I may want it for Scholar.
Irrelevant of course, since if the Weapon skill weapons from Abyssea are anything to go off, Scholar would be on Mjollnir.