SE's stance on Cure V

[Dantedmc]

Go do your research again. And then come back.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Afflatus_Solace

Cureskin has a hard cap of 300, no amount of additional healing will grant a higher skin. It lasts for 30s, the only ones who realistically can make use of it are the tanks. Also there is no cureskin for curaga's, only single target Cure's.

Sacrifice has a really BIG problem, namely that you must then remove all those status ailments from yourself, potentially having the tank die in the process. The key block here is Erase has a really annoying /recast even on RDM. SE needs to create Erase II for multiple removes and make Erase a 5s recast instead of 15s.

I was waiting for someone to mention Auspice / Gain spells. Their useless in big fights, specifically VWNM's, like Barspells. White Mage run's in, starts to cast Ausc.. *BAM 2K AOE* White Mage is now dead. White Mage hits yes on reraise ... long animation ... rising from ground ... *BAM ANOTHER AOE* White Mage is dead again. VWNM's tend to go *HUGE AOE* -> Tier IV Ga or Ja -> HUGE AOE -> Tier IV Ga or Ja -> HUGE AOE -> Tier II AM -> HUGE AOE. Trying to get up while your within 15 feet of them is suicide, the tank has to pull it away potentially killing other people. Tractor counts as zoning and won't work. We've had our main WHM weakened for 15 min straight due to aoe spam, and this is without trying to cast barspells. Simply put, on anything that can aoe one shot a white mage, you don't use those spells on. And if they can hit my Red Mage for 1700 through a 380 point stoneskin, then they will one shot a White Mage.

So again we're back to ..
Cure V
Erase
-na

Seriously, you guys should be making arguments about stona if anything. Its the one status removal that we can't get /WHM or /SCH and there are some fights that removing petrification are key. But the fact that no one has actually mentioned it just leads me to believe people actually really want to just replace White Mage outright.

Maybe you should do your research. The +2 body raises the cap to 400 and the amout from 25% to 35% and no the tank isn't the only one who makes use of it. Any DD who pulls hate and hit once is usually hit twice atleast before hate is reestablished.

There is no issue with sacrifice. A tank / DD being hit -100 to all stats is dangerous. -100 to stats on whm on the other hand doesn't affect it too much as long as you stay out of range for the duration. You can't convert silence/pet/terror etc. to yourself so there is no issue with that. The only spell that is dangerous is para which I usually remove before sacrificing if it is in the group of ailments.

I also love how you skip over the part where I say use fanatic's run in range and buff then run out. Magic won't oneshot a whm and if I get hit by a spell (unlikely) I can curaga the whole pt because we'll all be range. I've done this on many vwnms including Kaggen, Pil, and Uptala. Not to mention if you are in a nontank pt all the DDs will be out of range at some point for you to rebuff them.

So no, actually we are back to.....
Cure VI
Cureskin
Curagas
Sacrifice
the fastest nas /erases
best barspells by far
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea
auspice (moderately useful)
divine caress (moderately useful)
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs
Hexa strike

[Greatguardian]

Peeps be forgetting Sacrosanctity too. That shit is bomb.

[saevel]

Maybe you should do your research. The +2 body raises the cap to 400 and the amout from 25% to 35% and no the tank isn't the only one who makes use of it. Any DD who pulls hate and hit once is usually hit twice atleast before hate is reestablished.

There is no issue with sacrifice. A tank / DD being hit -100 to all stats is dangerous. -100 to stats on whm on the other hand doesn't affect it too much as long as you stay out of range for the duration. You can't convert silence/pet/terror etc. to yourself so there is no issue with that. The only spell that is dangerous is para which I usually remove before sacrificing if it is in the group of ailments.

I also love how you skip over the part where I say use fanatic's run in range and buff then run out. Magic won't oneshot a whm and if I get hit by a spell (unlikely) I can curaga the whole pt because we'll all be range. I've done this on many vwnms including Kaggen, Pil, and Uptala. Not to mention if you are in a nontank pt all the DDs will be out of range at some point for you to rebuff them.

So no, actually we are back to.....
Cure VI
Cureskin
Curagas
Sacrifice
the fastest nas /erases
best barspells by far
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea
auspice (moderately useful)
divine caress (moderately useful)
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs
Hexa strike

You got one fanatics per HV proc. And your really REALLY stretching now.

Cure V
-na
erase
haste

That is what we invite healers for, anything else and your deluding yourself. Why do you think there is such a huge hub bub over RDM / SCH getting Cure V, it's because with it they will be able to main heal just fine.

[Greatguardian]

Your healers must suck. It fits the trend with you, though, so I won't discount the possibility.

[Siiri]

So no, actually we are back to.....
Cure VI
Cureskin
Curagas
Sacrifice
the fastest nas /erases
best barspells by far
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea
auspice (moderately useful)
divine caress (moderately useful)
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs
Hexa strike

Cure VI-fairly meh spell
Cureskin- Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Curagas-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Sacrifice-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
the fastest nas /erases-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
best barspells by far-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea-ok
auspice (moderately useful)-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
divine caress (moderately useful)-meh
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs-ok
Hexa strike-LOL????
Sacrosanctity -very nice, hardly a game changer on a 10 minute recast.

To me not enough has changed since 75 to be sure that if SE gave Cure V to scholar and red mage that the ToAU attitude towards white mage wouldn't return. I think scholar is a greater danger to white mage than red mage though. I have Red mage now up high and it feels very weak on aoe healing. I guess SE doesn't want to chance it though.

[FrankReynolds]

Go do an event where there is even a moderately tough NM that does heavy damage, and debuffs. Bring 1 red Mage and 1 white Mage. Tell the white Mage he isn't allowed to use solace, and can cast nothing but cure V. see if the red Mage can handle everything.

If people are right about cure V being all that White Mage has going for it, then this should be a legit set up. Feel free to post videos of your exploits, proving everyone wrong. Bonus points for doing realllllly hard NMS without the use of anything but cure V from the White Mage.

[Dais]

I do not feel cure 4 is powerful enough to be any job's primary cure at 95, much less 99. As it stands blue mage and dragoon can consistently produce more powerful cures than rdm, pld, or sch (okay, to be fair sch can top blu, but will eventually run out of stratagems). It would be a stretch to say anyone subbing whm can cure as well as these three affected jobs, but it certainly takes less work to overcome the difference than it ever has in the past. The line between blm/whm and sch in particular seems more blurred than it ought to these days.
I can understand the desire to keep WHM distinct in it's premiere healing capability, but it's getting to the point where it is the ONLY capable healing job -even outside the realm of inflated hp that is abyssea. If cure 5 cannot be given to rdm, sch, and pld then maybe a comparable cure without fixed enmity and a slightly longer recast time would be acceptable? This addition would add the kind of clutch cure you need in a desperate situation while still making it a risk to use, the same way big cures used to be balanced in the old days, with enmity generation.

I won't dispute cure V may be too much given to every healer job, but I adamantly believe cure IV is too little.

[saevel]

Cure VI-fairly meh spell
Cureskin- Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Curagas-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
Sacrifice-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
the fastest nas /erases-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
best barspells by far-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
20 or higher boost spells which is alot outside abyssea-ok
auspice (moderately useful)-Had this at 75, made not a bit of difference on whm invite rate.
divine caress (moderately useful)-meh
and the things that I had forgotten for last time
Exclusive White magic procs-ok
Hexa strike-LOL????
Sacrosanctity -very nice, hardly a game changer on a 10 minute recast.

To me not enough has changed since 75 to be sure that if SE gave Cure V to scholar and red mage that the ToAU attitude towards white mage wouldn't return. I think scholar is a greater danger to white mage than red mage though. I have Red mage now up high and it feels very weak on aoe healing. I guess SE doesn't want to chance it though.

What I've been saying the entire time, all people really care about is Cure V, haste, and status removal. That is all that's needed to main heal. Everything else just makes it easier / more MP efficient, but as we've seen in the past players couldn't care how inefficient or how hard the RDM / SCH / SMN has to work, they dont' care the stress level on the healer, they only care that the healer can put out Cures and put them out fast.

[Feliciaa]

IMO. Cure 5 should be left to WHM. However, RDM should gain access to higher tier Regen spells. That way RDM can heal people but it won't become just another healer.

Honestly, the design behind RDM needs a serious adjustments in what it does best Enfeebling.
The design team should focus on improving RDM's ability to not only land Enfeebles but it should also cast more unique RDM only Enfeebling spells.

Some things I think RDM needs is a Trait that increases a high lvl RDM's ability to land spells or even a RDM only M.acc spell. Even a Enfeebling spell that lowers the damage a target's TP move would do or a spell that lowers M.atk would be greatly sought after for high level fights such as VW.

While I do agree that RDM in it's current state of the game is lacking in all areas I really do think its focus should stay with Enfeebling magic instead of taking the chance with it becoming a wanna be WHM.

[Hayward]

Good on S-E for not going down that wannabe-WHM road again. I didn't level RDM for that purpose, nor was it designed that way. Not at 75 and not now. What is needed, as others have suggested, are adjustments that solidify Red Mage's area of expertise, which is Enfeeblement.

S-E made a colossal mess of things in trying to prevent soloers from fighting NMs via immunity to Bind, Gravity, and Sleep. They compounded this with that Tranquil Heart trait, which really should not have been given to Red Mages in the first place (tanking was another part of the job's repertoire until that blunder).

To address the enfeeblement issue, I suggest a RDM-exclusive Job Trait that allows Red Mages the chance to penetrate any and all immunities to Enfeebling Magic (increasing with skill above the natural cap). It would also be great if Saboteur could double the duration of enfeebles as well as their effects.

The modifications to Healing Magic skill and MND will suffice so long as the skill rate is increased to reflect its value.