[dev1035] Are PUPs the only loved ones?

[Mizuharu]

The stupidity in this thread is just so amazing.

We actually have plenty of SMNs in here that says no to Cure V. Meanwhile SCH and RDM scream for it, but hey, we SMNs know how to play support jobs. And PUP needed the update because their automaton didn't cast cures. Light Spirit not casting cures is just "working as intended", because which healer in this game should heal?

I accept people having opinions about how dark spirit or ice spirit updates wouldn't do much. Because 600 damage every 20 seconds or 1200 every 45 isn't a world of a difference. And that is assuming SE did the correct spell timer adjustments, there is plenty of room to fail there. This all I can understand.

But dissing Light Spirit adjustments? Really? And you are subbing mage jobs to heal people?

I do not think I'm able to comprehend such ways of thinking. Choosing bad over good because you like bad better?

LightSpirit isn't necessarily a SMN's only choice for healing a party. The automaton is for PUP. I wouldn't mind the AI of LightSpirit tweaked a bit, but your OP made it sound like SMN should be getting this patch over PUP.

[Soranika]

One could say it was stupid for automatons to behave like SMN's spirits to begin with. In essence, all our elemental spirits are nothing more than usable, yet uncontrollable, elementals that we already encounter during weather effects.

Elemental spirits to SMN DO NOT mean the same thing as Automaton mean to PUP, nor are they as important to SMN. If emphasis is put on using elemental spirits instead of getting a much needed adjustments to avatar blood pacts, I'm gonna completely give it up.

If I'm main healing on SMN (which I don't anymore), I'd much rather use carbuncle with avatar favor enabled and be forced to rely on the randomness light spirits. Or... you know.... just switch to WHM.

[Spiritreaver]

I was reading about how it seemed like you were fixing everything with PUP in a single update and thought it sounded very wonderful. I could however not avoid noticing how a lot of the changes are stuff that are very closely connected to SMN.

Do you have similar plans for Summoner? (I know you supposedly have surveyed us about ward improvements, but it would be nice to know how much you intend on fixing, seeing as you are fixing everything on PUP)




Like are you going to fix Titan's favor to give damage reduction instead of defense, just how you changed the Armor Plating attachments effects?

Are you going to raise the amount of damage reduction on Nocturnal Shield?

Are you going to increase the priority of sleepga from Shiva since it is 1.5 min (sleepga 2) duration, and yet you can't overwrite sleepga 1 (1 min duration)?

Are you going to split up and improve healing AI for Light Spirit?

Are you going to add new spells to Spirits? (Since apparently it is still only Light Spirit getting new nukes and nothing else)


I'm quite envious at the amount of "fixes" going towards PUP right now. I've always said "fixes" are the only thing SMN needs, and yet all we get is new content. Never do we seem to get adjustments that make our old abilities useful.

Do to wards what you did to attachments, and do to spirits what you did to frames, and I believe you might have rejuvenated SMN into a brand new job.

The point is that they share the same code and same problems. Sharing the solution seems logical.

Think like this. You got a math problem saying 3 + 5 = ?. Next math problem is 5 + 3 = ?.

That is your automaton and spirit code. Very similar, but not exactly the same. SE just solved 3 + 5 = 8. I suggest they solve 5 + 3 = ? while they worked out the solution to 3 + 5.


It is only logical and easy. I don't claim that it is right or deserved.

Yet another comparison. Your son is mowing the lawn. He seems to finish very fast so you ask him if he really did cut all of it. His reply is "I only did half, because it needed it more than the other half".

Again, it would have been easiest to just mow the whole lawn at once. Splitting it up so you mow half on tuesdays and half on fridays will just make it more annoying to do.


As you see, no denying PUP needs it more. Just saying that they could as well finish all AI adjustments in the same batch.

You have to view spirits like avatar's favor. It does in no way enhance your BP:Rage spam and damage output, but it opens up new ways to support an alliance.

A functional Light Spirit would allow you to at dire situations call it out and basically add a WHM to the alliance. Bringing a WHM might have been overkill to start with, but bad luck made it a necessity. SMN simply covered it. (Or PUP, if you wanted to use that as a backup WHM solution).

A functional Light Spirit also allows you to change sub. If you can cure yourself, you can sub for example SAM and meditate TP to fill in WS triggers in VW. Or you can trigger NMs in Abyssea. Or you can simply refill MP with Myrkr if you happen to have that. I tend to sub WHM for cure IV. If I had Cure V from a trusty Light Spirit, I'd sub SCH to help nuke trigger on VW.

Other spirits have much less use. A split casting timer update like for PUP would allow them to be used as debuffers and DoTers, instead of Avatar spike damage. An obvious use would be triggers of course. But else it is mainly to avoid amnesia on an avatar, while making yourself vulnerable to silence on a spirit.

Another way to view spirits and avatars, are that avatars are for bosses and spirits are for normal mobs. After all, if a monster dies in 10 seconds, then a spirit casting nukes every 20 seconds is better than an avatar who does BPs every 45 seconds. Spirits are not meant to replace Avatars, just fill in those gaps the job has where you are just standing there watching all the BLMs, WARs etc kill monster after monster while your BP timer is ticking down.

(Best would be if spirits had -ga magic, but I doubt that would ever happen)



Maybe you were interested in an answer to your questions?

The stupidity in this thread is just so amazing.

We actually have plenty of SMNs in here that says no to Cure V. Meanwhile SCH and RDM scream for it, but hey, we SMNs know how to play support jobs. And PUP needed the update because their automaton didn't cast cures. Light Spirit not casting cures is just "working as intended", because which healer in this game should heal?

I accept people having opinions about how dark spirit or ice spirit updates wouldn't do much. Because 600 damage every 20 seconds or 1200 every 45 isn't a world of a difference. And that is assuming SE did the correct spell timer adjustments, there is plenty of room to fail there. This all I can understand.

But dissing Light Spirit adjustments? Really? And you are subbing mage jobs to heal people?

I do not think I'm able to comprehend such ways of thinking. Choosing bad over good because you like bad better?

I didn't have to quote everyone of your posts in this thread mellowy, but i figured what the hell. I've bolded just one word out the whole morass, envious. Its the only really important word you've typed this entire thread imo.

All of that justifying, rationalizing, speechifying, and ultimately in the end it all comes down to the same old trite mellowy obsession.

That said, i'm not gonna go on further about why you should not be surprised this thread is going the way its going. What am gonna do is share with you a pic of who it is you remind me of mellowy. Sorry in advance but yes, my Trekkie geek-flag is being unfurled. Here's the pic and a brief bit about who it is and why it comes to mind when watching you go on here and on Alla.


Kai Winn Adami

That is a pic of Winn Adami(eventually Kai Winn Adami, essentially the same as the Catholic Pope). She always used to pop up on the show and cause mischief under the banner of "everything i do is for the ppl in the name of the gods.."-blah blah blah. Of course this was only half of the truth.

The other half of the truth was that most of the crap she pulled was for her own selfish reasons. Chief among those reasons was the envy she felt towards another character on the show who was closer to her gods than she would ever be. In the end her envy got her burned alive.

Not a big surprise of course. Most times the villains in our stories and fables always convince themselves that their petty reasons have some some higher purpose that somehow negates any wrong done by the villain. And they keep on denying any harm they are doing until it blows up in their faces.

And no, not calling you a villain of course. FFXI is just a game after all. But this current thread of yours just snapped my take on this quest of yours into focus after all this time.

Me just having bust out the DS9 DVDs might have helped too tho...

[Alhanelem]

Oooh, now we're bringing Star Trek into it... :P

Personally, I preferred Voyager over DS9.
[/offtopic]

[Razushu]

Oooh, now we're bringing Star Trek into it... :P

Personally, I preferred Voyager over DS9.
[/offtopic]

/nerd on

DS9 was far superior to Voyager.

/nerd off

[Greatguardian]

/nerd on

DS9 was far superior to Voyager.

/nerd off

Gene Roddenberry would've hated both shows. /nerd.

[Alhanelem]

Gene Roddenberry would've hated both shows. /nerd.

/nerd I'm not sure about that. Maybe, but at least Voyager was still about exploring space, while DS9 was rooted in the area around the space station. I guess most people liked the greater amount of continuity between episdes in DS9, but I thought it was boring once the Dominion war started and the entire show was mostly about that with very few "fun" episodes (e.g. the one about baseball)

[Greatguardian]

/nerd I'm not sure about that. Maybe, but at least Voyager was still about exploring space, while DS9 was rooted in the area around the space station. I guess most people liked the greater amount of continuity between episdes in DS9, but I thought it was boring once the Dominion war started and the entire show was mostly about that with very few "fun" episodes (e.g. the one about baseball)

Roddenberry very openly critiqued DS9, he never liked it. In general, he disliked delving into interpersonal relations and space operas on Star Trek. If you look at TOS and TNG, the tone is very different. Personal drama exists, but it is not the core of the show. Star Trek, at its roots, is a socialist utopian vision. It is about what man could be, and how man could deal with the problems of their world and their time. Each of Star Trek's primary races represent some negative facet of humanity, exaggerated for effect. Klingons represent aggression, Ferengi correspond to greed, Romulans signify secrecy and non-transparency. Even the Cardassians, who were added later, were a harsh warning against rampant nationalism and militarization.

Scifi is a vehicle for social and political commentary. Roddenberry was sending a very clear message with his original shows. That message was "put on the backburner" for later iterations of the series, which chose to address different issues or, in the case of DS9, didn't really choose to address many issues at all. It's not that he didn't think they might be entertaining or fun to watch (I still enjoyed them), but he felt that his dream and his message were being sold out in the name of entertainment.

[Glamdring]

OK, Cure 5 answered, the answer is NO. See the reply in the scholar thread. And btw, I'd kick any smn from my pt who used a spirit for any reason other than ele siphon. if you want to cure me break out Levi or Carby, you were "hired" for your damage output-if you want to heal too /whm and break out cure 4.

True story (I've mentioned it before). Saw a smn pause over what I presume was an LS mate that was K.O.'d. he summoned a light spirit because it supposedly can raise. After about 10 minutes the corpse's timer ran out and he repopped at HP. He came back out and both he and the SMN stood there and /shouted belittling insults at the light spirit for like 5 minutes. 1 of the top 5 funniest moments I've ever seen in game... (I would have helpped, but they said it was an experiment/proving a point).

[Alhanelem]

Anyone who claims light spirit can raise is an idiot. Light spirit can not and was never able to cast it. This rumor was perpetuated by someone editing the page on various wikis stating that it could.