Where's our Relic...?

[Tashan]

And now I see that I was correct that you were just laying a trap, you had no intention of looking at anything I posted and was already planning on springing the "you used temps!!!!"

Fail.

I've played this game for a really long time. I've never called someone out on their poor comebacks but I've never seen something so bad as that.

That was terrible. You should be ashamed.

[Kitkat]

Arrogance

It isn't constant variables because you are assuming they are there 100% of the time and they aren't. Reason behind that is because you will not 100% of the time hit the red proc every time due to how people build alliances for vwnm. There will always be some missing procs in the alliance. Yellow returning a random item is moot if you already have the random item for some reason and the fact it is random meaning it can try to restore Mana powder instead of a stalwarts. This alone makes it inconsistent data.

This isn't a trap, this is facts. You just don't like it because it shatters your perfect world scenario and places a bunch of "what if" scenarios that do tend to occur. Sorry you want to be an idealist and think that everything is perfect and that WoE is magically better cause it does 25~30% higher WS damage than someone who actually gears well for KoR, but I'm here chipping at your crystal ball telling you the world isn't that way.

This game is derived from mathematical computations that have shifting variables. You coming along and spouting ideal circumstance and situation doesn't change this, it only misleads those who can't bother to do the work themselves. Nothing I've said will change a persons mind about making a WoE, relic, emp, or mythic. I only put into perspective different tiering based off base statistics (weapon in base form), situational statistics (all source damage tiering), and then utilization (situation where full time melee is not possible). Each situation showed the tiering of each weapon shifted due to what was taking place in a simulated situation that was calculated out through proved mathematics or general practice.

What you are saying about a WoE weapon throws all of this out the window, and to add further insult to injury you try to say a job that has lower proficiency and well known deficiencies on the melee front is somehow transformed into a demi-god because of this weapon? Are you even listening to yourself? Do you even watch other DD to see if they are actually putting effort into what they are doing before doing comparisons? I know a aegis/excal pld also and he has an almace too, but depending on situation he has been known to actually change the sword he is using as well as use a totally different WS setup to accompany it. In situations where he can use WS as he has TP you bet he uses Almace, but in situations where Amnesia or TP resets can occur Excal comes out. I can tell you any one faced with that sort of situation would do the same give the option to do so.

As the saying goes "**** is situational, what is best in one setting is not best in all settings."

[saevel]

It isn't constant variables because you are assuming they are there 100% of the time and they aren't. Reason behind that is because you will not 100% of the time hit the red proc every time due to how people build alliances for vwnm. There will always be some missing procs in the alliance. Yellow returning a random item is moot if you already have the random item for some reason and the fact it is random meaning it can try to restore Mana powder instead of a stalwarts. This alone makes it inconsistent data.

This isn't a trap, this is facts. You just don't like it because it shatters your perfect world scenario and places a bunch of "what if" scenarios that do tend to occur. Sorry you want to be an idealist and think that everything is perfect and that WoE is magically better cause it does 25~30% higher WS damage than someone who actually gears well for KoR, but I'm here chipping at your crystal ball telling you the world isn't that way.

This game is derived from mathematical computations that have shifting variables. You coming along and spouting ideal circumstance and situation doesn't change this, it only misleads those who can't bother to do the work themselves. Nothing I've said will change a persons mind about making a WoE, relic, emp, or mythic. I only put into perspective different tiering based off base statistics (weapon in base form), situational statistics (all source damage tiering), and then utilization (situation where full time melee is not possible). Each situation showed the tiering of each weapon shifted due to what was taking place in a simulated situation that was calculated out through proved mathematics or general practice.

What you are saying about a WoE weapon throws all of this out the window, and to add further insult to injury you try to say a job that has lower proficiency and well known deficiencies on the melee front is somehow transformed into a demi-god because of this weapon? Are you even listening to yourself? Do you even watch other DD to see if they are actually putting effort into what they are doing before doing comparisons? I know a aegis/excal pld also and he has an almace too, but depending on situation he has been known to actually change the sword he is using as well as use a totally different WS setup to accompany it. In situations where he can use WS as he has TP you bet he uses Almace, but in situations where Amnesia or TP resets can occur Excal comes out. I can tell you any one faced with that sort of situation would do the same give the option to do so.

As the saying goes "**** is situational, what is best in one setting is not best in all settings."

Umm huh ?

Listen I know your over on BG in some hate thread. And you guys are going all mental. You really might want to check your info though, not all VWNM's are Lord Varney, he's the exception not the rule. I stated that I had 140 (now 142) DEX in WS gear, that Bravers was +20 and that Atmacite was another +10 for a total of +170. That with that I was able to get 1.5~2K CDC's on VWNMs and these are average. BLU's and PLD's should be able to get more DEX and attack as they have better options. PLD's will only be single wielding though, which is something people often conveniently forget. But there is no reason a BLU shouldn't be getting higher in WS damage.

Yes I know the game is based on math ... I kinda use it alot. Your trying to alter the scenario to one where an Excal would beat out a Badelair +3, those temps and buffs you mention effect all equally, so by reducing one your just reducing the other and the relationship stays the same. These aren't what-if scenarios, it's simple, in VW you use temps, you can replenish those temps on a pretty consistent basis. Atmacite is also taken into account, although it's no where near as significant as what's in abyssea. And ... that's all. Nothing more is added or taken away.

And I never said demi-god, merely that CDC is ~that~ good, meaning any job that can use CDC would receive similar effects. Your just listening to people who really hate me and the shell I happen to be in. Their in there talking about damage on Lord Varney ... the windy T3 that's annoying even at 95. They didn't mention anything about the turtle, or the Iron Giant, or the T1/T2's. They didn't mention any of the Jeuno T1's or T2's, nor the Outlands T1/T2's. Jeuno T3's are a bit harder but I hit those numbers on the Eyeball and Pil. Haven't tried on Kaggan as I'm /SCH as support only during that annoying fight. BTW my damage sucks on Varney, just like everyone else's, LV is just annoying.

But by all means continue the hate and BG bashing. Especially find the part where your asking everyone to try to get me banned.

[Kitkat]

I don't even have an account on BG nor know what you are talking about in terms of LS, you personally, or hate mongering. I'm glad you are so vain to think as so, but what I said about WoE isn't a miscalculation on my part. The WS does not make it all-encompassingly better than relic. Period. Places it in a strong 3rd place, but isn't quite enough to nudge it into 2nd, it just isn't.

[saevel]

I don't even have an account on BG nor know what you are talking about in terms of LS, you personally, or hate mongering. I'm glad you are so vain to think as so, but what I said about WoE isn't a miscalculation on my part. The WS does not make it all-encompassingly better than relic. Period. Places it in a strong 3rd place, but isn't quite enough to nudge it into 2nd, it just isn't.

You or someone you know, either or.

And actually ... the WS is that great, do you have a CDC weapon? 5.25 worth of fTP with 60% DEX mod and likely a good +crit, or the numbers would suggest so. I wasn't exaggerating or BSing about those numbers. Then again I don't need your validation nor the validation of your friends on BG.

[Aurara]

Excuse me? Do you have any idea what you're saying? CDC doesnt hit 2k on VWNMs, expecially the high tier ones(maybe from the first 3 paths, but jeuno/zilart paths are ridiculous. They also have stupid high AGI. Stop talking of RDM melee, you dont do the dmg you say you do, stop making up numbers.

[Byrth]

170 DEX, level 90 Almace (D61), and lets go ahead and assume capped dSTR (+14 base damage.) So you're looking at a 161 base damage weapon. You're a Red Mage, so your Critical Attack bonus is low or nonexistent. Assuming you have initially capped Ratio and are fighting a level 100 monster, your cRatio is capped to 1.75. This still lets you hit 3.15 (capped pDIF), so lets use that as the pDIF value. You probably don't have any Triple Attack on RDM, so lets assume the maximum is two double attacks.

3.15 * 161 * 5.45 = 2764 absolute maximum damage with two double attacks and all four hits criting with maximum pDIF and an appropriate elemental gorget/belt.

At a cRatio of 1.75, your average crit pDIF will be 2.774. With 20% Double Attack in your WS set and an appropriate elemental gorget/belt, your average fTP would be 3.85. There's no way you're fSTR capped on Voidwatch NMs. Lets keep that assumption though, because Voidwatch NM stats seem to be part of the argument. Lets also keep the 100% Crit rate, for the same reasons and because we're assuming constant Champion's Tonic/Stalwart's/etc. However, lets toss in the 95% hit rate cap here just because we know it exists and we're now interested in the average.

161*2.774*3.85*.95 = 1633 Average damage

So, using math that benefits you incredibly and encompasses all of your assumptions, you're still falling short of the average you claim to have. I'll note that we've essentially assumed Voidwatch NMs are Giant Bumblebees with extra HP at this point and that you certainly aren't capping Ratio or fSTR on actual Voidwatch monsters.

Not only do you not average 2k CDCs on Voidwatch monsters, but you don't average 2k CDCs on anything outside Abyssea.

[Kitkat]

You or someone you know, either or.

Um, no. Other than dealing with you in this topic and seeing you pounce all over an enspell miscalculation in rdm forum here I don't know who you are. Only thing of consequence to me is that you are confusing 90 versions to lvl 95 versions where WoE did fall to 3rd, but only marginally. If the WS did greater than 2x dmg all the time compared to KoR this would be the case, but it doesn't. I do have cdc, even said this before also (go you on reading) so I do know what the WS is capable of, but I also see KoR from a person who focuses on the WS when using it and know it is not extremely weak either. Situationally speaking in terms of Abyssea, yes it is stronger, but once again Abyssea is not all encompassing. The Crit nature of the WS gives it an edge in instances where Accuracy and dDex are not an issue, but the standard dot based on rank, dps, and fStr valuse is deficient in comparison with the WS. Had Relic not been augmented at 95 again (in particular the hidden activation) then what you think would be true.

Seems at this point all you can do is use vanity or weakly attack my credibility. You do not own a WoE weapon, you can not transfer experience based on Almace to WoE weapon due to Rank and dDex differences because...yes it does make that much of a difference not to mention the lack of ODD.

[saevel]

Excuse me? Do you have any idea what you're saying? CDC doesnt hit 2k on VWNMs, expecially the high tier ones(maybe from the first 3 paths, but jeuno/zilart paths are ridiculous. They also have stupid high AGI. Stop talking of RDM melee, you dont do the dmg you say you do, stop making up numbers.

Ahh eventually they'd come out.

Not lieing or BSing, next time we do VWNM I'll get SS's. Although you guys will just call shenanigans.

[Aurara]

Ahh eventually they'd come out.

Not lieing or BSing, next time we do VWNM I'll get SS's. Although you guys will just call shenanigans.

Get SS, please, i guarantee you wont hit the numbers you say you will. Also, bashing credibility of people from BG based on the fact we are from BG is a lame thing to do because it proves you arent willing to accept the fact you're wrong.