Casual FFXI

[Mirabelle]

It seems to me that there is a definitional problem here. What is "casual"? What is "hardcore". I consider myself a casual player since I only play a few hours each day and some on the weekends. I have a fulltime job and frequently travel. Others may consider a casual player as someone that only comes on once a month to chat with LS mates. I'd consider that a fringe player.
As a casual (by my definition) player, I'd agree with the OP in that a major goal of mine is always to get one or two jobs very well geared. And it may take me months or years to do it, but as long as I feel I can progress to that goal in my time on game I enjoy myself.
People always say its the casual player that quits. But do they quit because they are casual or do they quit because the game caters to the hardcore by making too many things out of reach for a casual player? IMO its the latter. once you've explored the game and levelled, there wasn't a lot before abyssea that you could do in small groups and be successful. That's certainly changed and Aby was the biggest boon to casuals if you ask me. You could get 3-4 people together and kill stuff and advance.
VWNM seems to be the reverse process again but maybe at 99 it will be different.
I hope SE won't forget the few times a week player as they move forward.

[Aarahs]

All that means for you, Mirabelle, is that it will take you longer to achieve your goals than the guy who plays twice as much. I personally still have assaults, nyzul, WotG, and some misc things to complete still, but I'm doing what I can day by day. I also have an empy weapon in progress, but instead of whining about it, I'm actually doing something about it.

[Yinnyth]

It seems to me that there is a definitional problem here. What is "casual"? What is "hardcore". I consider myself a casual player since I only play a few hours each day and some on the weekends. I have a fulltime job and frequently travel. Others may consider a casual player as someone that only comes on once a month to chat with LS mates. I'd consider that a fringe player.
As a casual (by my definition) player, I'd agree with the OP in that a major goal of mine is always to get one or two jobs very well geared. And it may take me months or years to do it, but as long as I feel I can progress to that goal in my time on game I enjoy myself.
People always say its the casual player that quits. But do they quit because they are casual or do they quit because the game caters to the hardcore by making too many things out of reach for a casual player? IMO its the latter. once you've explored the game and levelled, there wasn't a lot before abyssea that you could do in small groups and be successful. That's certainly changed and Aby was the biggest boon to casuals if you ask me. You could get 3-4 people together and kill stuff and advance.
VWNM seems to be the reverse process again but maybe at 99 it will be different.
I hope SE won't forget the few times a week player as they move forward.

It's my opinion that "casual" and "hardcore" is more a matter of attitude than playtime. A hardcore gamer being one who takes pride in being one of the best <job>s on the server, and a casual player being one who plays to soak it all in. The hardcore gamer cares about levels, merits, and equipment above all else. The casual gamer cares more about storyline, music, spending time with friends, decorating their moghouse, wearing pretty armor, etc. There are obviously varying degrees and overlap in all players.

If you base "casual" or "hardcore" on playtime, our LS has become more casual lately because goals don't take as long to reach as they used to (thanks, abyssea) and rewards for new stuff are less impressive than what we've already earned in abyssea, so there's just not as much to work for. Our attitude is still more "hardcore"- we're still more about exp, merits, gear, and playskill than most people, there's just... nothing productive to do.

[Camiie]

You didn't really think you were going to have a free ride all the way to 99, did you?

As long as I've played this game, the only things I've got for free are what other players gifted me, the weapon that came with my character, a starter magian weapon from the box, and a Rounsey Wand. I've done everything extensively except voidwatch. I'm still looking for all this free gear people are talking about. I really wish I could find it. Help me out?

[Saefinn]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours. I think the Emps are good example of this:
Initial Trials - Kill x lottery spawn y number of times. Lotttery Spawn usually ~2hours, some can spawn up to a lot more. If you're going to camp it you're probably spending at least 2hours per kill on an NM that dies in just a few hits, otherwise it comes down to luck - in the end the NM I thought, "I'll casually do this trial, but walking in to see if it's up" I gave in and camped it because it was never up. In essence you could be spending hours doing nothing and I speak to players who do this as though it's not a problem. In my mind, if you're doing that, you're not actually playing a game. Hence 0 emps by my name.

I did spend massive time sinks not only in levelling different jobs but in endgame content too and I'm thinking there's no way a casual player could enjoy this and like with AF3 seals you might get luck and have yours drops frequently or not and spends a lot of time on a NM with little or no reward.

I could only find enjoyment out of spending hours at a time because that's what it takes to get some reward out of it. What I feel would be nice for the game is if somebody could jump in, have some fun for a short while, feel like they've made progress and then go do something non-FFXI related. Now to be fair, there's some parts of the game that are fun, I mean there were NM fights I've enjoyed with people I've made friends with in game and there's a lot of great points about FFXI - you might do an MB and be 1/9, therefore you've achieved something. But it really isn't for the casual player, hence I've stopped playing. Love the game, but to have fun it meant spending a lot of time on it and I'd rather not turn a video game into a project. For me to continue I wouldn't say make the game easy - in fact, it IS easy already, I just agree with the OP that the time sinks are still huge. I would actually prefer something 'challenging' to a 'time sink', because something challenging is interesting and it keeps you hooked. Limit Break 5, that was challenging, not necessarily a massive time sink, you only had to win the fight once to break past level 70, yet it was a challenge and one thing I still say is, "I enjoyed G5". The reward is because you've put in the effort to win and your victory wasn't based on a sure win formula...unless of course you've chosen a job where the formula works for most (if not all) - at least every person who did SAM I spoke to got 1/1, I didn't do SAM for mine.



All in all, I think the OP is spot on. There's a level where people (referred to as casual players) lose interest and for FFXI to continue it will need to keep their interest. It's true, fewer and fewer people play the game.

[Krashport]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours. I think the Emps are good example of this:
Initial Trials - Kill x lottery spawn y number of times. Lotttery Spawn usually ~2hours, some can spawn up to a lot more. If you're going to camp it you're probably spending at least 2hours per kill on an NM that dies in just a few hits, otherwise it comes down to luck - in the end the NM I thought, "I'll casually do this trial, but walking in to see if it's up" I gave in and camped it because it was never up. In essence you could be spending hours doing nothing and I speak to players who do this as though it's not a problem. In my mind, if you're doing that, you're not actually playing a game. Hence 0 emps by my name.

Every game has a time sink some more then others, Just think if everyone can get their NMs w/in mins of camping, How packed would abyssea be, The way it is setup is for Balance! Maybe you set your goals in an online game a little bit to high, Then got frustrated and quit.

hence I've stopped playing. Love the game, but to have fun it meant spending a lot of time on it and I'd rather not turn a video game into a project. For me to continue I wouldn't say make the game easy - in fact, it IS easy already, I just agree with the OP that the time sinks are still huge.

Why are people typing on the forums if they have quit the game... kinda makes no sense, Your trying to change and give your ideas as to how the game "should" play for "you" that you don't even play anymore.. to hell with the members that are playing and have been playing FFXI for 6~9+ years eh..?

I can totally understand and respect Causal gamers but asking to change FFXI to a Causal game would never work why not just play it Causally? look on the bright side you can always go play a Causal FFXIV. I mean SE changed a lot of things w/in FFXI for the Causal player what more do you want.

I don't see any of us "Fans" BSin about a discount for all these up dates you get us in, Maybe us "Fans" should all go on strike and start boycotting then well see how much Causal FFXI will be!

I really would like to know what plans do the Master minds @ SE "If there is anymore left" Have in store for new content stop with the easy-hardcore button already, Do we "All" have anything other then; (Make this game easy, Make it more hardcore, to look forward to?) Its an online game for crying out loud its the way you play it, We are "All" paying a monthly fee for it.

[Yinnyth]

I think the main problem is the time sinks. Perhaps many don't realise it or perhaps not many have a problem with it, but the game demands a lot of wasted hours.

Does anyone have a link to a jpg of the splash screen you get everytime you log into the game? Anyone? Something about immersive experience, don't forget about the outside world...

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who plays an MMORPG (or any RPG, for that matter) who does not understand the concept of "grinding". At some point, the grinding will kill off ANY player, myself included. That goes for EVERYTHING in the game though. "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." -Paracelsus

Some people simply have a lower tolerance for certain poisons. The grinding killed you off sooner than it killed me off.

But it really isn't for the casual player, hence I've stopped playing.

And to be perfectly honest, I am sorry to hear that. It's more fun when the things which entertain me also entertain other people. There are many things SE does which rub me the wrong way, but rarely is it the grind. If it's a tedious, unchallenging grind, I simply watch TV or listen to music as I'm doing it. If it's difficult, I relish the challenge.

[Saefinn]

Every game has a time sink some more then others, Just think if everyone can get their NMs w/in mins of camping, How packed would abyssea be, The way it is setup is for Balance! Maybe you set your goals in an online game a little bit to high, Then got frustrated and quit.

People can get their NMs within mins of camping in Abyssea - popped NMs don't take long to pop and spawn NMs are usually 10 mins, some NMs have more than one spawn. Sometime's there's competition, sometimes there isn't and all competition means is - you're either courteous and take it in turns or go for the quickest finger. I know there's some exceptions to how often a NM in Aby spawns.

It wasn't a rage quit or anything like that, it was more or less the realisation that the grind was pretty much hours of basically doing nothing or doing the same thing a hundred times over and I figured that I didn't want to waste my time anymore.

Perhaps people like doing that, if so, then fine and if SE wants to cater to that then that's up to them too. Obviously I won't be playing, fewer and fewer players are playing the game (hence the purpose of the OP), so I suspect SE will want to do something to keep the interest of more people and my feedback is basically why I lost interest. Or I guess people will go over to FFXIV and as soon as the PS3 release comes out, I might be tempted, but from the sounds of it, it needs a lot of work itself.

Why are people typing on the forums if they have quit the game... kinda makes no sense,

Simple, feedback and sharing an opinion, precisely what these forums are for. I may have quit, but it doesn't mean that in the future I can't come back, especially if a future update appeals enough to me then I might. SE has taken a big wad of my cash, just like the rest of you, so I think my opinion counts too.

Your trying to change and give your ideas as to how the game "should" play for "you" that you don't even play anymore.. to hell with the members that are playing and have been playing FFXI for 6~9+ years eh..?

Everybody has opinions on the game and how it should play for 'them', heck, if some compromise would be made where SE can keep the most number of players, then that's good and if they appealed to me then I'd probably play again. SE's made massive changes to make the game easier and there's a lot of folk that didn't like that, including those who have played for a great number of years, so I think SE has already said 'to hell with them'. My view is that if they wanted to appeal to what in this thread has been referred to as a 'casual' player then as one of them I'd say, keep it challenging, but in my mind, time sinks are wasted time - now I realise they can't just give you your gear willy nilly, but if it's going to take me time to get an item then I'd prefer it to take time because it's a challenge. It took me a while to beat my G5 fight, yet I do not feel that it was wasted time because I enjoyed the challenge...heck that fight was frustrating, but I loved it. Was there a grind? Yes, my grinding was spent skilling up, but also getting testimonies and luckily, my testimony wasn't impossible to solo, though I remember as a level 90 helping plenty of other folks with theirs because they couldn't solo them.

Does anyone have a link to a jpg of the splash screen you get everytime you log into the game? Anyone? Something about immersive experience, don't forget about the outside world...

Regardless, even if you spend 2 hours a day (or a week, or 1 hour or whatever) you're going to be spending a lot of wasted hours just not in one go. You might spend that 2 hours camping an NM, then the next day 2 hours camping the next NM for your trial and so on. You'll just find it goes more slowly, but you're still putting in a big time sink.

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who plays an MMORPG (or any RPG, for that matter) who does not understand the concept of "grinding".

I understand grinding, in fact I don't mind it, I play a lot of RPG games and have also played other MMORPGs. Would it actually be a surprise to the discussion if I were to say that I miss the old non 'book burn' exp parties? I've sat in places like Qufim just to find people and put my flag up to only be waiting for ages to only end up with a "Crawler's Nest Do you need it?" It would actually seem quite contradictory because book burns mean you level up quicker, but when you found yourself in a good party it didn't actually matter you were getting a couple of levels a day (if you were playing casually) because you felt like you were actually playing the game, with a book burn it's pretty much, lets sit here and do next to nothing to get some levels. See what I mean when I say 'wasted time'. I loved Wajoam Woodlands, I loved Western Altepa Desert and what I also loved was trying out new camps in weird places because all others were taken - that party we had in Behemoth's Dominion just before BB came to fruition was ace.

Perhaps that's my problem, it no longer felt like I was playing a game and that I was wasting time. Of course, I'm not gonna force my opinions on anybody else, I think the game could have done more to keep me playing. Naturally I understand they're not going to please everybody.

[Krashport]

Simple, feedback and sharing an opinion, precisely what these forums are for. I may have quit, but it doesn't mean that in the future I can't come back, especially if a future update appeals enough to me then I might. SE has taken a big wad of my cash, just like the rest of you, so I think my opinion counts too.

This is the kind of people SE is catering to now, so if the future updates appeals to them they will play for 2 weeks or a bit longer Then get frustrated and quit again. I don't know really what to call this Causal... hardcore.. totally not a fan.. a person that doesn't know what they want.. sh!t I give up! one would think if you quit its um Game Over why waste your time and put yourself in a uh oh "Time sink" typing on a Game Forum that your really not part of anymore you did quit right?

[Saefinn]

I don't think you've read the entirety of my post, SE is making the game easier, which is actually the opposite of what would keep my interest, sure you can level up a lot quicker, but that isn't the only place that's a time sink and oddly enough I feel a BB is more of a waste of time than the old regular party, because the old regular party could be fun (though I thought double exp was a good idea) whereas a BB is just for the sake of getting something out at the end. That's how I've defined these wasted time syncs - time spent doing something that's not interesting for a reward at the end. I've tried getting old exp parties, but they're rare.

Casual vs Hardcore, I just been using the terms used over in the thread, though I don't think they've actually been properly defined.

one would think if you quit its um Game Over why waste your time and put yourself in a uh oh "Time sink" typing on a Game Forum that your really not part of anymore you did quit right?

I saw the thread (I've been browsing the forums to see how people have responded to the update) and offered my own feedback, people responded to points raised I can at least be polite enough to read them and respond.

But just because you quit doesn't mean you can't come back, in fact, I'm sure SE would love it if the thousands of people who have previously quit would come back.