Hvergelmir WTF SE

[Byrth]

Honestly, the fact that Summoners slobber over Nirvana is just a tribute to the atrocious state of FFXI's pet enhancing gear in general.

[Kimble]

I dont think Math has an Opinion.

[Korpg]

Only part about this whole post is, you are assuming that a person who wields a Nirvana has to melee.

Sorry to disappoint, but with Nirvana, you don't even have to melee, that is what makes that staff so great. Only way to actually use a Hvergelmir is to whack stuff with it, otherwise it is useless and a waste of an inventory spot.

Nirvana, you don't even need to whack anything for it to outperform any and all other staves for SMN, it is just that good.

Seems like an opinion to me.

[Greatguardian]

Nirvana is a 23 MAB bonus over and INT path Pet MAB staff.

With 5 Pet MAB merits and MAB VI, Pets have 50 MAB base. Easy stuff (E. Pendant, AF3 waist, T. Cape) is another 5 MAB, for 55 base and 67 with the Pet: MAB avatar weapon.

1.9/1.67 = +14% damage on Magical BPs for using Nirvana over the Pet: MAB Magian staff.

So yeah, Nirvana really isn't game breaking. It gets worse the better your augmented Pet: Stat gear is.


Edit: Don't get me wrong, it's the best "pet enhancing" piece of gear by a mile (well, it's barely better than AF3+2 body and only works for half the BPs), but it's just not more amazing than, for instance, 2 Affinity.

^ Looks more like math plus some commentary than an "Unsourced Opinion".

[Dallas]

Hver aftermath can be maintained, Nirvana cannot. Nirvana loses, no matter how loud BG screams

[Rearden]

Poor child, you seem stressed.

[Byrth]

I mean, I don't think Korpg is wrong that it's better than Hverg or Claustrum. I also think that BLMs would be equally sploogy over Laev if Affinity staves didn't exist.

The problem is that Nirvana, which is (in my opinion) far and away more useful than Hverg or Claustrum, costs 300mil/months of effort and is a <14% damage increase for a mediocre Summoner, probably closer to a ~12% increase for a perfect summoner. When I look at Ryunohige, I feel bad about wasting 30k Alexandrite in a Terpsichore. When I look at Nirvana, I don't get the same feeling. It's like, "Great, your magical BPs do 14% more damage, which will be useful in the situations where magical BPs are better than physical and you happen to be on Summoner."

In my opinion, the real reason to get Nirvana isn't for the 14% damage boost to magic BPs. The real reason is because people will be so freaking in awe of your mythic's shininess that they'll never question "who is coming summoner?" again. Be thankful that most people can't figure out how minor of an upgrade it is.

As much as lollas has ripped on "BP and Release" summoner, realistically the only situations that call for summoner also call for BP and release. In a "BP and Release" situation, Nirvana is the best Magic BP weapon and the best (temporary) Perp staff. Hverg and Claustrum do nothing in those situations, and if MP is really that much of an issue for you guys in Voidwatch that you need to be dropping Dusty Wings and using Myrkr, you should really re-evaluate the way you spend MP. I just did the entire Sandy path with an alliance dualboxing the two black mages with temp items, and I didn't even Refresh myself or Convert more than half a dozen times the whole night. If I can spam proc spells as fast as possible and not run out of MP, I'd hope you can BP twice every 45 seconds without running out of MP (assuming you can find enough Wards that are actually worth using).

Hverg is an awesome tool for soloing DC mobs with your pet. It's a shitty tool for anything anyone else would want Summoner for. I can't really knock people for making one, as I seriously considered Aymur when I reactivated a year ago and got stricken with BST-fever. They're useful in approximately the same situations as each other, though Aymur does have a few extra bonuses.



Re: Lollas
Why do you think that Hverg aftermath can be maintained but Nirvana's can't? Assuming you make moderately efficient Perp -> Refresh trades, which are plentiful these days, couldn't you expect to gain several MP/tick from TPing in the staff? Then 60% OAT helps you build TP, so you can use Spirit Taker a few times between 300TP Garlands.

[Greatguardian]

I'm confused. Why in the world can't Nirvana Aftermath be maintained?

-Build TP to 300
-Get the only good aftermath
-Spam your real WS until it's time to build 300TP again
-Get 300 TP as Aftermath lv3 Wears, WS and get your aftermath back
-Go back to spamming whatever WS you want

Problem, broseph?

[Dallas]

GG its obvious you are confused. Let me break it down.

For SMN, MP> everything else. There are two ways to get it. Refresh above and beyond perp, or through melee WS.

For Hver, the WS triggers aftermath.

For Nirvana, it does not.

Nirvana, poorly made, depends on Spirit Taker which can miss, or it depends on wasting every other slot and subjob and atma maintaining mp. Take your flavor of fail: 0 haste, 0 aftermath, or 0 avatar. Also, start playing SMN so you know what mp recovery means.

[Korpg]

For Nirvana, it does not.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong in this case. Aftermath procs on Garland of Bliss, or do you mean that aftermath doesn't proc on Myrkr on Nirvana?

Nirvana, poorly made, depends on Spirit Taker which can miss, or it depends on wasting every other slot and subjob and atma maintaining mp. Take your flavor of fail: 0 haste, 0 aftermath, or 0 avatar. Also, start playing SMN so you know what mp recovery means.

Wait, you depend on atma as a melee than any other SMN. You have to have 3 regain atmas on, including the infamous slow+15% one, just to keep your MP up.

While every other SMN just needs Minkin, and that's it. 1 Refresh Atma > 3 Regain Atmas because you can put the other 2 Atmas to more damage capabilities. And outside Abyssea? Nirvana shines even better because you can have +7 mp per tick refresh with your avatar out, instead of having your avatars cost you 13 mp per tick just so you can have enough attack speed to wiff/whack a mob to get your 300% TP.