If RDM and SCH can't have Cure 5, give us Afflatus Misery/Solace

[Leonlionheart]

Light Arts.

That's the reason why Scholar is better then Red Mage as a sub for White Mage. You can already cap casting time, and the recast time is the same. You'll save more MP with the Light Arts MP cost reduction then anything /RDM will give you.

Pretty much this.

I get asked to /RDM some times, and unless someone says I'll be tanking as WHM with Phalanx, then I ALWAYS ALWAYS turn them down.

I've gone /RDM. I've gone /SCH. I've seen both as a MP sponge. /SCH is far and away the most MP efficient sub job for WHM (your Cure V's cost 13 MP less, around 70 MP per Cure V with a cure potency set worth a damn). After that, you get Sublimation. I never run out of MP unless we're seriously getting our ass handed to us, and in that case there's nothing that /RDM will gain you- other than Phalanx.

[SpankWustler]

I do love that everyone skipped over the section where I mention SCH and RDM using their current abilities to assist the party as a whole, outside of curing. Nice dodge.

In the case of Scholar, their healing/support ability is basically reading a white book to become a less awful White Mage in exchange for becoming a really awful Black Mage.

Adloquium sucks when anyone is able to actually engage for TP. Weather effects do next to nothing for melee jobs.

Currently, a Scholar's unique abilities for support when it's time for people to hit things with things include "apologizing to the group" and "I guess I'll go feed my cat while you guys take care of this".

[Economizer]

I never run out of MP unless we're seriously getting our ass handed to us, and in that case there's nothing that /RDM will gain you- other than Phalanx.

And if you do get your ass handed to you, those two strats will help you raise an entire party solo without having to wait for recasts. Not to mention that /SCH means you can Aspir stuff for about 100-200 MP a pop - situational, but it makes a big difference when you can use it. Last, there is Campaign Battle, where Scholar is a better healer then White Mage - even if you want to NIN or DNC sub, you'll miss having /SCH for even an ounce of that superior cure power. Unless you are allowed to melee things for MP, /SCH is almost required for White Mage.

I don't know about others, but I feel gimped when I can't /SCH in a party situation - unless I'm holding at least two clubs with pieces of baby Ruszor brains splattered on them.

[Feliciaa]

Abyssea is done. There is no reason for Rdm or sch to need cure V with the amount of +cure potency coming this update and the lack of abyssite to give people insane amounts of HP.

[cidbahamut]

Skipping over 15 pages of inevitable bickering.

I don't want those WHM JAs simply because I'm too lazy to learn how to make use of them and overhaul my macro palette to incorporate them, especially to enhance a support job I don't like to use if I can avoid it. If I wanted all of White Mage's toys I would have leveled the job beyond 49.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Abyssea is done. There is no reason for Rdm or sch to need cure V with the amount of +cure potency coming this update and the lack of abyssite to give people insane amounts of HP.

VoidWatch is the new thing, and Cure IV isn't good enough there either so....

PS. The new gear makes getting 50% easy, but RDM and SCH could get ~43% anyway, so the remainder wont aid on a spell so crap as Cure IV. If they don't want to add Cure V to RDM or SCH up the actual cap on Cure IV.

[SpankWustler]

Abyssea is done. There is no reason for Rdm or sch to need cure V with the amount of +cure potency coming this update and the lack of abyssite to give people insane amounts of HP.

The issue was never really the amount of maximum Hit Points. I would compare that to an optical illusion.

Some stuff in Voidwatch hits just as hard as stuff in Abyssea did, except we have lower maximum Hit Points.

It is totally true that Red Mage and Scholar heal just fine on old content, however, and maybe this is actually the balance that SE wants. I wish they would come out and that state their intention in this case, however, so I could post an "Okay."-face meme and move on.

[Raksha]

I do love that everyone skipped over the section where I mention SCH and RDM using their current abilities to assist the party as a whole, outside of curing. Nice dodge.

Which tools would that be? AoE stoneskin? anyone /sch can cover that, including whm. Haste? WHM or BRD can cover that too. AoE refresh? You'd be better off with a BRD, if you needed extra refresh at all. AoE phalanx? insignificant on anything worth fighting. Crowd control? BLM or RDM does this better, and will especially do it better in the next update when it/they get breakga. Regain spell is a joke, animus spells are a joke.

If you have a tank and a WHM already, you'd be much better off adding a BRD or COR or BLM before adding a SCH.

[Economizer]

I don't want those WHM JAs simply because I'm too lazy to learn how to make use of them

If other jobs were to be able to get it, just use Afflatus Solace whenever it isn't up (generally every two hours - you shouldn't bother macroing it). Afflatus Misery is very, very situational and in need of buffs - but the bottom line is that you would have to struggle to come up with a reason to use it over Afflatus Solace at all if you only had White Mage's subable abilities. I suppose you could have a White Mage Auspice everyone using Misery?

There is a strong basis for job abilities that can only be used on a main job, or are weakened by having them subbed, and I think that Afflatus stances definitely should fit this. Even if other jobs were to suddenly get Afflatus stances, Solace should be appropriately downgraded for this - like only giving a 10% cureskin bonus and no MDB to barspells. Perhaps if SE wrongly decides to give jobs that are crappy melee like BLM and SCH Staff WS natively, Afflatus stances will be added to /WHM in order to make it competitive with /RDM and /SCH.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If other jobs were to be able to get it, just use Afflatus Solace whenever it isn't up (generally every two hours - you shouldn't bother macroing it). Afflatus Misery is very, very situational and in need of buffs - but the bottom line is that you would have to struggle to come up with a reason to use it over Afflatus Solace at all if you only had White Mage's subable abilities. I suppose you could have a White Mage Auspice everyone using Misery?

There is a strong basis for job abilities that can only be used on a main job, or are weakened by having them subbed, and I think that Afflatus stances definitely should fit this. Even if other jobs were to suddenly get Afflatus stances, Solace should be appropriately downgraded for this - like only giving a 10% cureskin bonus and no MDB to barspells. Perhaps if SE wrongly decides to give jobs that are crappy melee like BLM and SCH Staff WS natively, Afflatus stances will be added to /WHM in order to make it competitive with /RDM and /SCH.

Convert was another JA that should have been blocked, but alas it was not.