Sooo SE actually wants to know the numbers of PS2 users eh?

[Joslyn]

everyone here is making both valid and reasonable points, the fact of the matter is its totally up to SE to decide whether or not to remove support of PS2. FFXI is and will always just be a game. Yes it does have room for expansion,but just like some great past MMORPG's as time goes on it does get stale. Limitations on both sides will kill this game not just hardware. In order for it to keep surviving the game as a whole would need to be redone. Would removing ps2 support help? possibly but just like EQ there is only so much that be made for the game before nobody will play it.

What would be great is if SE would revisit the possibility to do a version for PS3 with HD and trophy support. Them saying that will not happen because of coding issue is complete BS, they only have to look at Konami,Ubisoft, and even there own crew at Eidos to see how it would be done. Time is not the issue..Money is and they have decided to throw there eggs in with FFXIV instead of the game that is a cash cow.

My 2 cents

[Volkai]

It's relevant in the sense that you are trying to portray PS2 players as completely inept individuals who don't own computers, can't afford computers and are too Dumb to figure out how to get one even if they could.

You are wrong. That is not what I am trying to do. Maybe you should stop making assumptions about the motivations of other people. What I am pointing out is that not all PS2 players necessarily own or can afford a computer or other platform on which to play FFXI.

When the fact is that you are clinging to a console that you have gotten your moneys worth out of, and its holding back the rest of the community.

That is not a fact. I am not at all clinging to a console. I personally switched to PC about four years ago. But I don't have to play on a console to use logic to make the case for continuing console support.

PS2 players are not all broke and horribly inconvenienced by having to buy these newfangled computer thingamajigs.

If you are saying that "Not all PS2 players are broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then I agree with you. HOWEVER if what you are saying is that "All PS2 players are NOT broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then that is a point on which we cannot agree.

It is my hope that you can recognize the difference between these two statements, and the importance of that difference.

[Volkai]

Just understand that if Square drops the PS2 it will have a negative impact on the community beyond just 'a handful of people'.

No, it won't. Because people play on PC.

Yes, it will. Because more than a handful of people play on not-PC.

I've known several people who switched over, and actually did say "WTF HAVE I BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME GIMPING IT UP ON PS2?!"

That's anecdotal. Not all players that switch from PS2 to PC will have this reaction. Furthermore this does not at all address the case of current PS2 players who do not have a PC to play on, edge case though it may (or may not) be.

As an example, when I switched from PS2 to PC, my reaction was more along the lines of "Well it's nice to have a better screen resolution, but really, what's the big deal? It's still the same game." Say what you will, one anecdote is as valid as another. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence.

[Minkaa]

While it may increase overall game limits to drop PS2 support, those improvements will not happen overnight. It would require a lot of code updates and given the work that SE is already engaged in regarding FFXI updates, the players would not likely notice these changes for quite a while. In the meantime, by dropping support for an entire console, they would have alienated a significant percentage of the game's player base, which will weaken the game overall, and decrease the revenue that would be needed to make said adjustments over the long haul.

In a world rife with shiny new MMOs coming out every other day, I'd rather see FFXI stay diverse and accommodating rather than forcefully narrowing its audience.

[Economizer]

Why are PS2 users so afraid of the transition? The new features won't come overnight, and the PS2 won't be dropped overnight. Both will take time and be very well announced.

If FFXI does not drop PS2 support eventually (not immediately, but over time), FFXI WILL DIE. I don't think anyone here wants SE to say tomorrow that PS2 support is dropped immediately, but we do want SE to have a plan for depreciating support over a slated time period, since Sony won't give us more then 10GB on the PS2.

The hard drive space is the most important resource, followed by eliminating the crappy amounts of RAM that the PS2 has. SE can probably keep skirting the RAM limitations, but since they can't get around the hard drive limitation, we have no choice. The slow (so don't worry, unless you are just trying to kill FFXI) transition must be made. The PS2 goes or FFXI does.

If you want FFXI to die, then you have no place in these forums. Go away trolls.

[Volkai]

Why are PS2 users so afraid of the transition? The new features won't come overnight, and the PS2 won't be dropped overnight. Both will take time and be very well announced.

If FFXI does not drop PS2 support eventually (not immediately, but over time), FFXI WILL DIE. I don't think anyone here wants SE to say tomorrow that PS2 support is dropped immediately, but we do want SE to have a plan for depreciating support over a slated time period, since Sony won't give us more then 10GB on the PS2.

The hard drive space is the most important resource, followed by eliminating the crappy amounts of RAM that the PS2 has. SE can probably keep skirting the RAM limitations, but since they can't get around the hard drive limitation, we have no choice. The slow (so don't worry, unless you are just trying to kill FFXI) transition must be made. The PS2 goes or FFXI does.

If you want FFXI to die, then you have no place in these forums. Go away trolls.

I feel like I've seen this "If FFXI does not drop PS2 support it will die, therefore all people who think PS2 support should be maintained are trolls" argument before. It does not hold up, and it's borderline to an ad hominem attack, to boot. Specifically, it does not hold up because you can put out a new client for PC and add further updates to it that do not impact PS2 support, and you do not need to drop PS2 support to do so. Consider that there is a Test Server client that is PC-only, and it has in no way impacted PS2 support.

Furthermore, it's wrong to assume that only PS2 players and/or trolls would recommend continued PS2 support. Stop assuming those that do not agree with you do so out of fear and/or maliciousness.

[FrankReynolds]

You are wrong. That is not what I am trying to do. Maybe you should stop making assumptions about the motivations of other people. What I am pointing out is that not all PS2 players necessarily own or can afford a computer or other platform on which to play FFXI.

You are stating it as if it is a majority of the population and therefore relevant. The portion that cannot afford it would have to be large in order for you to justify using that argument. by continuously using it in this thread you are by extension suggesting that it is a large portion.[/quote]

That is not a fact. I am not at all clinging to a console. I personally switched to PC about four years ago. But I don't have to play on a console to use logic to make the case for continuing console support.

So what exactly are you supporting it for? the lack of new content? the numerous other hindrances that it brings to the game?

If you are saying that "Not all PS2 players are broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then I agree with you. HOWEVER if what you are saying is that "All PS2 players are NOT broke (and therefore buying a PC or XBox 360 to play FFXI on is a practical option for them)" then that is a point on which we cannot agree.

It is my hope that you can recognize the difference between these two statements, and the importance of that difference.

That was unnecessarily convoluted. MOST PS2 players either have or can easily have a different means of playing. Further more, They are playing on equipment that has a finite lifespan and is Either not replaceable or is replaceable at a cost that is similar to upgrading. In the mean time, the consoles they play on are a hindrance to the betterment of the game. We would all benefit from upgrading them. People who are going to quit if they can't play on PS2 are This ---> <---- close to quitting anyways. People who won't upgrade because they can't are so few and far between that they are not worth counting in the census.

The guy who has been paying for video game for like 10 years and can't afford or doesn't already have a pc / 360 is such a miniscule crowd that its ridiculous.

[FrankReynolds]

I feel like I've seen this "If FFXI does not drop PS2 support it will die, therefore all people who think PS2 support should be maintained are trolls" argument before. It does not hold up, and it's borderline to an ad hominem attack, to boot. Specifically, it does not hold up because you can put out a new client for PC and add further updates to it that do not impact PS2 support, and you do not need to drop PS2 support to do so. Consider that there is a Test Server client that is PC-only, and it has in no way impacted PS2 support.

SO you would be ok having PS2 on separate servers that don't get the PC /360 updates like the test servers to now?

[TetsujinX]

How about you just both play on the superior platform. Honestly though 360 isn't the problem in FFXI. I personally can't stand playing on consoles, but 360 definitely isn't holding FFXI back at all. Also, freezing or not freezing isn't really an issue relevant in this thread. Such things don't really affect the future of the game. Those things are just inconveniences to the player at the time.

It is very relevant considering you are trying to sway Squenix to do away with my only viable option to play the game. That is less money the get in, which though a mere drop in the bucket, still affects the future of the game. There is no such thing as a problem being unique to an individual, meaning the would lose more than ust one person for the exact same reason.

[Leonlionheart]

While it may increase overall game limits to drop PS2 support, those improvements will not happen overnight. It would require a lot of code updates and given the work that SE is already engaged in regarding FFXI updates, the players would not likely notice these changes for quite a while. In the meantime, by dropping support for an entire console, they would have alienated a significant percentage of the game's player base, which will weaken the game overall, and decrease the revenue that would be needed to make said adjustments over the long haul.

Would they lose money though? Do you know this to be fact?

SE wouldn't question this if money wasn't an issue. At some point, since PS2 player base is probably constantly dwindling with the machine breaking, too much headache over re-installs, realizing PC is far superior, etcetera, it probably costs more to keep up PS2 support rather than just drop it all together.

I'd put money on the fact that SE is dropping it because they aren't really gaining anything from the 6 people that still play on the pos.