If RDM and SCH can't have Cure 5, give us Afflatus Misery/Solace

[Economizer]

I literally do not know anyone who enjoys playing WHM, they simply play it because it's REQUIRED. It's such an easy job to play and so needed people end up playing it on a mule :/

Sup.

White Mage is only easy if you are in a good party. The only way other jobs deserve any of the pure power of curing as a White Mage is if White Mage gets massive amounts of power in other areas to make up for the lack of the current monopoly, because unlike other jobs, White Mage doesn't have much to fall back on.

[Yugl]

Sup.

White Mage is only easy if you are in a good party.

Thanks for the pointless response. Same could be said of any situation in which you are dependent on your members. Idiots can make the game endlessly difficult from MPKing the group to using terrible gear. It doesn't reflect the difficulty of the task once individuated from these factors.

The only way other jobs deserve any of the pure power of curing as a White Mage is if White Mage gets massive amounts of power in other areas to make up for the lack of the current monopoly, because unlike other jobs, White Mage doesn't have much to fall back on.

Pure curing power? Like Cure I-IV? Oh dear, that WAR/WHM has pure curing power. How will I ever get them to accept me!

[Xellith]

Name me important stuff that WAR can do that DRK/WAR cannot do that isn't Ukko's/Blood Rage or Warrior's charge? I guess DRK is fixed!

---
With regards to abyssea....
Lots and lots and lots and lots of Red and Blue Triggers. Not gonna name them all. I asume you have access to some form of wiki but are just too ignorant to use it.

Tomahawk (underestimated but good for certain situations)
Ability to kill about 30 monsters at once etc etc.
Can shift from extreme offense to extreme defense depending on your gear/sub (which is what makes war very versatile.
---
I can name stuff a DRK can do that a WAR cannot do.

Blood Weapon Kclub/Mrkis
Apocalypse spam
Weapon Bash
Bio II Yellow Trigger (DOT also if have to zombie something for group)
Water 3 Yellow Trigger
Aero 3 Yellow Trigger
Fire 3 Yellow Trigger
Drain Yellow Trigger
Cross Reaper Blue Trigger
Stun
Dread Spikes
Numerous Absorb spells.

I can go on if you like. Better yet ill just Link you to it.

--

Pup can solo a tonne of stuff but the AI is a little borked.

You are not even trying to have a debate. You are just trying to be argumentative with every single post questioning my reasoning. I suggest you look inwards and address your own issues.

I'm not going to list every single little tiny little niche that a job gets just because you are ignorant.

[Shiyo]

Wow Xellith thought you were serious LOL

[Xellith]

I still have yet to see any reason (worth taking seriously) why SCH or RDM should get cure 5. Not to mention Afflatus Solace.

[Yugl]

---
With regards to abyssea....
Lots and lots and lots and lots of Red and Blue Triggers. Not gonna name them all. I asume you have access to some form of wiki but are just too ignorant to use it.

Tomahawk (underestimated but good for certain situations)
Ability to kill about 30 monsters at once etc etc.
Can shift from extreme offense to extreme defense depending on your gear/sub (which is what makes war very versatile.
---
I can name stuff a DRK can do that a WAR cannot do.

Blood Weapon Kclub/Mrkis
Apocalypse spam
Weapon Bash
Bio II Yellow Trigger (DOT also if have to zombie something for group)
Water 3 Yellow Trigger
Aero 3 Yellow Trigger
Fire 3 Yellow Trigger
Drain Yellow Trigger
Cross Reaper Blue Trigger
Stun
Dread Spikes
Numerous Absorb spells.

I can go on if you like. Better yet ill just Link you to it.

--

Pup can solo a tonne of stuff but the AI is a little borked.

You are not even trying to have a debate. You are just trying to be argumentative with every single post questioning my reasoning. I suggest you look inwards and address your own issues.

I'm not going to list every single little tiny little niche that a job gets just because you are ignorant.

And with that, you just stepped on your own argument, idiot. It's not about naming abilities X class over Y class with exception to the most important aspects of that class; it's about substantive capability. For example, the whole premise behind WAR being able to demolish mobs at a faster pace than other DDs depends on the ability to utilize the aforementioned, yet excluded, abilities. Hence, to present that as evidence that SCH doesn't need curing adjustments is utterly stupid.

Wow Xellith thought you were serious LOL

He activated my trap card.

[Zhronne]

The devs won't give SCH and RDM Cure 5, so instead let us at least be able to use Afflatus Misery/Solace.

No.
I personally stand against this.
First because it's part of the uniqueness of WHM. Second because it just makes no sense. It would hardly cover the gap needed to call SCH and RDM good healers and it would be pretty ineffective without the special spells and abilities that are in synergy with the two afflatuses and that are WHM exclusive.

I'm instead for Cure V at during the next (95>99) level cap. Of course they should make it "special" for RDM and SCH. The WHM version of Cure V also has a "hidden effect" of lower enmity, this effect should be taken off for SCH and RDM.
I think at that point I'll call myself happy and both jobs will be able to be pretty decent healers both outside and inside Abyssea.
If they don't want to give us C5 even without the enmity bonus, then they should create a new healing spell just for SCH and RDM, calling it... I dunno, "Soothing Wave" and make it similar in potency to Cure V, enmity excluded.

[SpankWustler]

I literally do not know anyone who enjoys playing WHM.

Sup. I like that it fulfills it's purpose really well, but it gives me more buttons to push than other single purpose jobs like Warrior. White Mage feels awesome to me right now, and I'm sure I'd still be on it plenty even if my bros and bro-ettes could heal to some effective degree with their Scholars and Red Mages.

Name me something that a WHM can do that a SCH cant that isnt cure V/VI or Repose.

Shellra V and superior bar-spells together for superior magic defense. 250-400 HP Stoneskin from Cure V/VI. More quickly cast Cure spells. Faster and more potent area of effect healing when it's relevant. Being able to cast Cure V and Cure VI back to back when needed (I doubt any other job will ever gain both). Esuna and Sacrifice when they are relevant. Situational stuff like Divine Caress, Boost spells, and Auspice.

Healing and support is about more than grunting and groaning and squeezing out a big number into the chat log. A cure is either large enough/fast enough to comfortably prevent death, large enough/fast enough to prevent death by a less comfortable margin, or not large enough/fast enough to prevent death. For most new NM's, Cure IV falls into the last category.

[Saefinn]

---
With regards to abyssea....
Lots and lots and lots and lots of Red and Blue Triggers. Not gonna name them all. I asume you have access to some form of wiki but are just too ignorant to use it.

Tomahawk (underestimated but good for certain situations)
Ability to kill about 30 monsters at once etc etc.
Can shift from extreme offense to extreme defense depending on your gear/sub (which is what makes war very versatile.
---
I can name stuff a DRK can do that a WAR cannot do.

Blood Weapon Kclub/Mrkis
Apocalypse spam
Weapon Bash
Bio II Yellow Trigger (DOT also if have to zombie something for group)
Water 3 Yellow Trigger
Aero 3 Yellow Trigger
Fire 3 Yellow Trigger
Drain Yellow Trigger
Cross Reaper Blue Trigger
Stun
Dread Spikes
Numerous Absorb spells.

I can go on if you like. Better yet ill just Link you to it.

--

Pup can solo a tonne of stuff but the AI is a little borked.

You are not even trying to have a debate. You are just trying to be argumentative with every single post questioning my reasoning. I suggest you look inwards and address your own issues.

I'm not going to list every single little tiny little niche that a job gets just because you are ignorant.

WAR can switch from extreme offense to extreme defense, meaning a WAR is capable of fulfilling dual roles - tank and heavy DD. DRK is dedicated to extreme offense, but if you wanted somebody in your party with extreme offense you can choose between WAR and DRK (I know there's other jobs capable, but for the sake of discussion) and both are very capable of filling that gap. WAR gets invites because of procs, I know a DRK can proc red too, but WAR covers more weapons and I don't see DRK proccing yellow or blue because they've got a very limited choice. But both are very capable at offense. PLD is capable of filling the side of extreme defense too and with the ability to self sustain its own health and its use of other white magic spells its usually the preferred choice (though I understand Abyssea tends to prefer extreme evasion over extreme defense) but a WAR is capable of fulfilling that niche if needed.

Yet, SCH the job that's supposed to be the master of Light and Dark Arts seems to only be a master of the Dark Arts who's second to BLM and in Abyssea it's BLM that's chosen for procs (and probably why we see WAR instead of DRK). There's a lot a SCH can't do that BLM and WHM can and there's a lot BLM and WHM can't do that a SCH can. There's plenty of reasons to choose a BLM or a WHM over a SCH, yet if you need a nuker or a healer and if a WHM or BLM is available, you've got a SCH to fulfill either role, just like a WAR can either be offensive or defensive. A SCH isn't going to be spamming nukes and cures side by side due to its limitations, SE have cleverly limited SCH through its Dark Arts/Lights Arts system to stop it from being over powered. Stratagems too offer limits - I can't land a Tier V nuke without Addendum: Black, if I've used up all my stratagems on my White magic, the best I'll be able to do is Tier III, if I've used my stratagems on nukes, I can't use any of my status removal spells, I'd have to wait 40 seconds (at level 90) before I could do that whilst my paralyzed tank struggles to cast Utsusemi: Ni and could be dying very quickly, and to use Addendum: White, I need to be under Light Arts, which has a recast timer too. There's the merit JA Enlightenment, which helps when you need it but you can only use addendum spell with it and it has a big recast timer. So making full use of White and Black magic side by side on a SCH can be very damaging when you're the main healer. SE gave us limitations like that to stop us from being over-powered hybrids.

To me this is akin to a WAR with Berserk and Defender and its gear set ups for offense and defense - you're not going to go in heavy when you're defending and you're not going to be defending when you're going in heavy. (Dark Arts boosts Black Magic, but weakens Light Magic, Light Arts boosts White Magic but weakens Black Magic)


So I think it is recognisable that certain jobs and certain aspects of jobs have been neglected with the Abyssea updates whilst other jobs excel.



[Edit]

Also to note, WHM can DD too, something a RDM can but a SCH...it's pointless to melee on a SCH, with C skill on staff and club and a serious lack of weapon skills (in comparison to WHM) and a lack of heavy armour to take the hits. I've sat in Abyssea watching WHM/NINs DD very well.

[Leonlionheart]

WAR can switch from extreme offense to extreme defense [...]

get outWAR can't do defense for crap, unless you're talking about PDT sets, in which case BLU gets easier to make PDT sets. Defender is NOT a good defensive capability for WAR.