Thanks for Temper SE

[Supersun]

Yeah...maybe if Temper is only going to be 1% OaT...

But assuming this spell ISN'T going to be something stupidly low then this spell would have most likely nailed us as the second best buffer right behind bard if it was castable on other people.

I mean Red Mages and Bards would virtually be joined at the hip and we'd be back in a TouA type situation where you wouldn't leave your mog house without having both of those jobs first.

[SpankWustler]

I mean Red Mages and Bards would virtually be joined at the hip and we'd be back in a TouA type situation where you wouldn't leave your mog house without having both of those jobs first.

It's hard to guess, since this is just hypothetical, but I don't see that kind of situation happening again. Large portions of the game have gotten much easier, groups have gotten much smaller, and VoidWatch is so hard that melee might not be engaged for the whole duration or even the main source of damage.

Back in the way-way-before when I played with a lot of people, we'd use full-on "melee damage support" for stuff like Einherjar and sometimes Dynamis. Things like Limbus or Salvage with an alliance split into groups or just one party, not so much.

As for merit parties on pink birds, I really don't understand how anybody on any job could have fond memories of that experience. Melee couldn't use decent food, piercing weapons were the best option for almost any job, and all mages were limited to maybe a third of their spells. I'd say those merit parties were pretty dull for everybody involved, melee included, even though it was faster experience than most things previous.

I'm not really sure what my point is, so I'll just say this. I don't think anyone should be terrified of getting new single target buffs because some stuff in the old days was dull for him or her.

Even in Abyssea which is just punching faces forever, I would not complain about a more slack buff cycle when the group is just farming pop items or something.

[saevel]

Yeah...maybe if Temper is only going to be 1% OaT...

But assuming this spell ISN'T going to be something stupidly low then this spell would have most likely nailed us as the second best buffer right behind bard if it was castable on other people.

I mean Red Mages and Bards would virtually be joined at the hip and we'd be back in a TouA type situation where you wouldn't leave your mog house without having both of those jobs first.

Yep if Temper was even semi-decent it would of been 2007 BRD + RDM in every party all over again. We know that, the detractors know that, in fact they want that, yet somehow we go about this dance where we pretend there isn't ulterior motives to their posts.

[Kaisha]

What would have been interesting is if Temper was castable on others, but overwrote Haste (and vice-versa).

Would be a case where you'd have to balance set delay reduction w/ recast times (if you rely on Utsusemi for instance) vs. chances of additional hits, assuming Temper was potent enough to be noticeable.

Food for thought. More options is always nice.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What would have been interesting is if Temper was castable on others, but overwrote Haste (and vice-versa).

Would be a case where you'd have to balance set delay reduction w/ recast times (if you rely on Utsusemi for instance) vs. chances of additional hits, assuming Temper was potent enough to be noticeable.

Food for thought. More options is always nice.

... Not sure if serious...

[noodles355]

Yeah...maybe if Temper is only going to be 1% OaT...

Yeah, no. Even if it was around 20% Cor would still be better. Mainly due to the fact they have anywhere from 10-24% DA as well as a 2nd and often 3rd roll.

[SpankWustler]

Yep if Temper was even semi-decent it would of been 2007 BRD + RDM in every party all over again. We know that, the detractors know that, in fact they want that, yet somehow we go about this dance where we pretend there isn't ulterior motives to their posts.

Corsair can provide round-a-bouts 15% Double Attack and they're rarely in any party, much less every party. Groups getting smaller at the same time that stuff is getting easier generally doesn't lead to more people being shoe-horned in just to provide buffs.

Also, I'm not sure where you guys get the idea that further not-Haste buffs from a Red Mage would make a Bard's marches any better.

[Seriha]

What bothers me is the assumption that pretty much anyone only plays RDM in extreme low-man situations. As is, I'm still in my old linkshell from back in the day where we could've had 20+ people show up for Einherjar, Dynamis, and so on. While such numbers certainly aren't needed, there are times we still enter Abyssea for a specific purpose with a full alliance (usually the sub-groups rotating amongst KI NMs then reuniting at the final mob) with the sole purpose of helping a specific person or three. As is, while some have complained the new content of today isn't hard, it shouldn't be, either, especially with 9 levels ahead of us. And on some level, I see SE taking an anti-lowman approach to some mobs with mobs who do split damage moves (?? Needles, Discoid, etc.), possibly summon multiple adds you just can't kite around indefinitely, and so on. Were Temper party-capable, the only way to really avoid the cycling fate would be to put yourself in the nuking party, but even then you'd likely be cycling Refresh and perhaps Haste to help Stun timers if a rotation is needed. Of course, most leaders probably wouldn't put you there unless you had two other RDMs to cover the other groups. At that point, we basically reintroduce issues of redundancy between ourselves and even WHM. Someone, somewhere will cut corners thinking RDM "good enough" to get the job done, and if true and word spreads, hello expectations. Forget about it if Cure V does indeed enter the picture like some hope.

Either way, what happens at 99 is still a mystery. We can look around and possibly see some foundations being built like with Voidwatch and various Trials, then make educated guesses based on other past content. Far as Temper is concerned, if someone doesn't beat me to it on the test server, it's going to be my first priority to gauge its potency, relationship with DA/WS, and other factors. I want it to be good and not let it get away with being bad if SE did indeed drop the ball toward RDM again.

[SpankWustler]

Far as Temper is concerned, if someone doesn't beat me to it on the test server, it's going to be my first priority to gauge its potency, relationship with DA/WS, and other factors.

Given the "improvement" between Tier I and Tier II En-Spells, this sounds like the right frame of mind to take towards the spell. I'm not sure the potency will be what you're hoping for, but hopefully they'll re-think Temper if it is similar to the Rube-Goldberg's-dabbling-in-Dadaism Tier II En-Spells.

Useless or broken spells aren't good for anybody.

[Seriha]

Pain not having windowed mode on the Test Server...

Anyway, preliminary findings on Temper: Costs 36 MP, is called Multi-Strikes in the buff window, and lasts 3 minutes by default, which can be extended by Composure and such. It stacks with Enspells just fine. I went to Grauberg(A) to whack on some crabs with regen atmas and I feel like the DA rate is somewhere between 5 and 10 percent. Took about 60 hits to kill a crab, and basically had to manually count DAs as they happened, averaging around 5 per fight. I was using Flat Blade for a few of my later crabs to see if the DA would trigger on WS and I think it did, but I also may've been hit at the same time. Sub used at the time was /NIN single-wielding one of my Shamshirs with no DA gear on. Tried a few with my DA Khanda, Atheling, and Brutal and while I naturally swung more, I couldn't tell you if Temper was a factor.

Personally was hoping more for 10-15%, but maybe if we can get some more testimonials floating around we can find out I was either having bad luck or it's more in the 5-10% range.