Thanks for Temper SE

[SpankWustler]

I'm not sure the common parser works on the test server, either, so good luck with your testing. Testing attack rate with just your eyeballs is a pain, since it's just RECORD DATA UNTIL YOU WANT TO NOT LIVE THEN RECORD MORE.

Maybe you could farm up a 999 delay sword or dagger and just watch your character whack a fortilace while you focus on tallying stuff? That doesn't sound fun at all, in fact much the opposite, but it's the best way I can think to get a very accurate idea of the spell's effect.

[Seriha]

Maybe when I'm less tired I can sit here with a piece of paper and just mark lines while whacking on a fort, but yeah... brain mush.

[Economizer]

Personally was hoping more for 10-15%, but maybe if we can get some more testimonials floating around we can find out I was either having bad luck or it's more in the 5-10% range.

Aside from doubting initial measurements, and the possibility it could be changed, it could be affected by Enhancing Magic skill.

Still, if it is a 10% rate for example (which seems like something they might choose), with the double attack weapon (10%, possibly more with level increase), /WAR (10%), Brutal Earring (5%), Atheling Mantle (3%), ASA Body (2%) and buffs from SMN (~12%) and COR (~24%), you could get about ~30% all the time, and with a party setup, around 66%.

[Atoreis]

Aside from doubting initial measurements, and the possibility it could be changed, it could be affected by Enhancing Magic skill.

Still, if it is a 10% rate for example (which seems like something they might choose), with the double attack weapon (10%, possibly more with level increase), /WAR (10%), Brutal Earring (5%), Atheling Mantle (3%), ASA Body (2%) and buffs from SMN (~12%) and COR (~24%), you could get about ~30% all the time, and with a party setup, around 66%.

Rofl. Unless that would be your mules none will put RDM to a pt with COR SMN and put DA buffs on him and let him melee lol. Suddenly from solo melee toy you want to make it a base for melee RDM in ally? lol at /war in party too ...

[saevel]

[Comment deleted by Moderator]

The test server just copies your character data over? If so I might be able to throw together some tests at high enhancing magic. I'm praying it's on-cast potency and not on-hit, that would suck.

[Supersun]

There might be an quicker way to test Temper's potency though I doubt anyone has the gear and the assistance required to do it.

Instead of auto attacking for hours and hours while parsing the results of the spell to try and find the level of double attack it has you could instead try the opposite instead and work from 100% double attack down.

With atmas, a Corsair, a Summoner, a Warrior, /War, DA gear, and DA weapons any job has the potential to break 100% double attack. From there you can work your way backwards slowly removing any double attack gear until you reach the point where you no longer double attack with a 100% rate.

Much more tedious and demanding, but unless double attack has some cap that I don't know about you should be able to find the exact DA value the spell gives with this.

From there you can then also test if enhancing magic increases the potency of the spell. From the 99% DA point that you find just equip your full enhancing set to cast the spell and see if you are still at a 99% DA rate.

Not gonna lie though, I'll be impressed if anyone pulls that off.

[saevel]

There is a much easier and simpler method to go about this simple test.

Absolutely no DA gear or buffs at all, Onion or other low single digit sword or club + shield. No bonus enhancing magic gear, just cap at whatever level your at in the test server. Cast Temper, beat on craps in the past until you have 300 attack rounds worth of data, very important that you track attack rounds. Total Hits / Attack Rounds = Base Temper value. Repeat with maxed enhancing gear, that should give you a clue if it scales or not and to what degree.

[Supersun]

I really doubt that 300 rounds would give you a big enough sample to be able to determine if enhancing gear increases the DA potency given that if it does change at all it'll only be by a couple percent.

I mean I'm no statistician, but wouldn't an extra 1-2% still fall within the margin of error for only 300 rounds?

[noodles355]

What bothers me is the assumption that pretty much anyone only plays RDM in extreme low-man situations. As is, I'm still in my old linkshell from back in the day where we could've had 20+ people show up for Einherjar, Dynamis, and so on. While such numbers certainly aren't needed, there are times we still enter Abyssea for a specific purpose with a full alliance (usually the sub-groups rotating amongst KI NMs then reuniting at the final mob) with the sole purpose of helping a specific person or three. As is, while some have complained the new content of today isn't hard, it shouldn't be, either, especially with 9 levels ahead of us. And on some level, I see SE taking an anti-lowman approach to some mobs with mobs who do split damage moves (?? Needles, Discoid, etc.), possibly summon multiple adds you just can't kite around indefinitely, and so on. Were Temper party-capable, the only way to really avoid the cycling fate would be to put yourself in the nuking party, but even then you'd likely be cycling Refresh and perhaps Haste to help Stun timers if a rotation is needed. Of course, most leaders probably wouldn't put you there unless you had two other RDMs to cover the other groups.

You still wouldn't replace a cor or brd in the DD party. There is no space for Rdm in an alliance DD party. You keep ignoring the fact that Temper would have to be an obscenely high % of OAT to be worthwhile enough to out-buff a Cor (who can give you 10-20% DA ontop of 2-5 regain and/or 20-40% Attack) or a Brd (Marches, 'nuff said.).

Everyone needs to stop saying it's a good thing it doesn't target others because it means you would have to cycle it around 4 people because that will never happen. You will not replace the whm, brd or cor in an event DD party. Where do you most often find yourself on Rdm in the alliance? In the tank party or in the Add/misc party. Temper being able to target other people would benefit the tanks in an alliance and the 1-2 melees in a low man situation. That's it. Once again: You would never be cycling it around 4 DDs in your party because as a buffer Cor and Brd would still be better.

[SpankWustler]

I really doubt that 300 rounds would give you a big enough sample to be able to determine if enhancing gear increases the DA potency given that if it does change at all it'll only be by a couple percent.

I mean I'm no statistician, but wouldn't an extra 1-2% still fall within the margin of error for only 300 rounds?

300 is a pretty okay sample size (though still a long way from ideal) for determining a "base" rate, but not really how skill or anything else affects the spell. If the rate is low as Seriha has noticed thus far then the effect of more skill would probably be in increments of 1% and that will be fun with a capital EFFFFF for some poor soul to figure out.

It's nothing that couldn't be learned by leaving one's computer on over a few nights after teaching one's cat how to cast Temper every so many minutes, but letting one's cat play on the test server in any fashion does not seem wise.

I'm not sure if going down from 100% Double Attack would work too well until a base rate is determined, since you'd have to wait to NOT double attack to know the amount had gone down and it's not possible to remove Double Attack 1% at a time. However, it would be an easier way to test what, if anything, affects the spell.

Edit: Unless my morning-time-math is off, you would need to hit something well over 5000 times to narrow down the effect within a percentage point, and thus determine how enhancing magic or anything else would effect it. I can not imagine any living soul performing such a task by hand and retaining his or her will to exist.