Thanks for Temper SE

[Kaisha]

What would have been interesting is if Temper was castable on others, but overwrote Haste (and vice-versa).

Would be a case where you'd have to balance set delay reduction w/ recast times (if you rely on Utsusemi for instance) vs. chances of additional hits, assuming Temper was potent enough to be noticeable.

Food for thought. More options is always nice.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What would have been interesting is if Temper was castable on others, but overwrote Haste (and vice-versa).

Would be a case where you'd have to balance set delay reduction w/ recast times (if you rely on Utsusemi for instance) vs. chances of additional hits, assuming Temper was potent enough to be noticeable.

Food for thought. More options is always nice.

... Not sure if serious...

[Seriha]

What bothers me is the assumption that pretty much anyone only plays RDM in extreme low-man situations. As is, I'm still in my old linkshell from back in the day where we could've had 20+ people show up for Einherjar, Dynamis, and so on. While such numbers certainly aren't needed, there are times we still enter Abyssea for a specific purpose with a full alliance (usually the sub-groups rotating amongst KI NMs then reuniting at the final mob) with the sole purpose of helping a specific person or three. As is, while some have complained the new content of today isn't hard, it shouldn't be, either, especially with 9 levels ahead of us. And on some level, I see SE taking an anti-lowman approach to some mobs with mobs who do split damage moves (?? Needles, Discoid, etc.), possibly summon multiple adds you just can't kite around indefinitely, and so on. Were Temper party-capable, the only way to really avoid the cycling fate would be to put yourself in the nuking party, but even then you'd likely be cycling Refresh and perhaps Haste to help Stun timers if a rotation is needed. Of course, most leaders probably wouldn't put you there unless you had two other RDMs to cover the other groups. At that point, we basically reintroduce issues of redundancy between ourselves and even WHM. Someone, somewhere will cut corners thinking RDM "good enough" to get the job done, and if true and word spreads, hello expectations. Forget about it if Cure V does indeed enter the picture like some hope.

Either way, what happens at 99 is still a mystery. We can look around and possibly see some foundations being built like with Voidwatch and various Trials, then make educated guesses based on other past content. Far as Temper is concerned, if someone doesn't beat me to it on the test server, it's going to be my first priority to gauge its potency, relationship with DA/WS, and other factors. I want it to be good and not let it get away with being bad if SE did indeed drop the ball toward RDM again.

[SpankWustler]

Far as Temper is concerned, if someone doesn't beat me to it on the test server, it's going to be my first priority to gauge its potency, relationship with DA/WS, and other factors.

Given the "improvement" between Tier I and Tier II En-Spells, this sounds like the right frame of mind to take towards the spell. I'm not sure the potency will be what you're hoping for, but hopefully they'll re-think Temper if it is similar to the Rube-Goldberg's-dabbling-in-Dadaism Tier II En-Spells.

Useless or broken spells aren't good for anybody.

[noodles355]

What bothers me is the assumption that pretty much anyone only plays RDM in extreme low-man situations. As is, I'm still in my old linkshell from back in the day where we could've had 20+ people show up for Einherjar, Dynamis, and so on. While such numbers certainly aren't needed, there are times we still enter Abyssea for a specific purpose with a full alliance (usually the sub-groups rotating amongst KI NMs then reuniting at the final mob) with the sole purpose of helping a specific person or three. As is, while some have complained the new content of today isn't hard, it shouldn't be, either, especially with 9 levels ahead of us. And on some level, I see SE taking an anti-lowman approach to some mobs with mobs who do split damage moves (?? Needles, Discoid, etc.), possibly summon multiple adds you just can't kite around indefinitely, and so on. Were Temper party-capable, the only way to really avoid the cycling fate would be to put yourself in the nuking party, but even then you'd likely be cycling Refresh and perhaps Haste to help Stun timers if a rotation is needed. Of course, most leaders probably wouldn't put you there unless you had two other RDMs to cover the other groups.

You still wouldn't replace a cor or brd in the DD party. There is no space for Rdm in an alliance DD party. You keep ignoring the fact that Temper would have to be an obscenely high % of OAT to be worthwhile enough to out-buff a Cor (who can give you 10-20% DA ontop of 2-5 regain and/or 20-40% Attack) or a Brd (Marches, 'nuff said.).

Everyone needs to stop saying it's a good thing it doesn't target others because it means you would have to cycle it around 4 people because that will never happen. You will not replace the whm, brd or cor in an event DD party. Where do you most often find yourself on Rdm in the alliance? In the tank party or in the Add/misc party. Temper being able to target other people would benefit the tanks in an alliance and the 1-2 melees in a low man situation. That's it. Once again: You would never be cycling it around 4 DDs in your party because as a buffer Cor and Brd would still be better.

[Seriha]

Pain not having windowed mode on the Test Server...

Anyway, preliminary findings on Temper: Costs 36 MP, is called Multi-Strikes in the buff window, and lasts 3 minutes by default, which can be extended by Composure and such. It stacks with Enspells just fine. I went to Grauberg(A) to whack on some crabs with regen atmas and I feel like the DA rate is somewhere between 5 and 10 percent. Took about 60 hits to kill a crab, and basically had to manually count DAs as they happened, averaging around 5 per fight. I was using Flat Blade for a few of my later crabs to see if the DA would trigger on WS and I think it did, but I also may've been hit at the same time. Sub used at the time was /NIN single-wielding one of my Shamshirs with no DA gear on. Tried a few with my DA Khanda, Atheling, and Brutal and while I naturally swung more, I couldn't tell you if Temper was a factor.

Personally was hoping more for 10-15%, but maybe if we can get some more testimonials floating around we can find out I was either having bad luck or it's more in the 5-10% range.

[SpankWustler]

I'm not sure the common parser works on the test server, either, so good luck with your testing. Testing attack rate with just your eyeballs is a pain, since it's just RECORD DATA UNTIL YOU WANT TO NOT LIVE THEN RECORD MORE.

Maybe you could farm up a 999 delay sword or dagger and just watch your character whack a fortilace while you focus on tallying stuff? That doesn't sound fun at all, in fact much the opposite, but it's the best way I can think to get a very accurate idea of the spell's effect.

[Seriha]

Maybe when I'm less tired I can sit here with a piece of paper and just mark lines while whacking on a fort, but yeah... brain mush.

[Economizer]

Personally was hoping more for 10-15%, but maybe if we can get some more testimonials floating around we can find out I was either having bad luck or it's more in the 5-10% range.

Aside from doubting initial measurements, and the possibility it could be changed, it could be affected by Enhancing Magic skill.

Still, if it is a 10% rate for example (which seems like something they might choose), with the double attack weapon (10%, possibly more with level increase), /WAR (10%), Brutal Earring (5%), Atheling Mantle (3%), ASA Body (2%) and buffs from SMN (~12%) and COR (~24%), you could get about ~30% all the time, and with a party setup, around 66%.

[Atoreis]

Aside from doubting initial measurements, and the possibility it could be changed, it could be affected by Enhancing Magic skill.

Still, if it is a 10% rate for example (which seems like something they might choose), with the double attack weapon (10%, possibly more with level increase), /WAR (10%), Brutal Earring (5%), Atheling Mantle (3%), ASA Body (2%) and buffs from SMN (~12%) and COR (~24%), you could get about ~30% all the time, and with a party setup, around 66%.

Rofl. Unless that would be your mules none will put RDM to a pt with COR SMN and put DA buffs on him and let him melee lol. Suddenly from solo melee toy you want to make it a base for melee RDM in ally? lol at /war in party too ...