Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Tarage]

Why would you want SMN to skill chain? Why?

[Dallas]

Myrkr at 100% TP only restores 20% of your maximum MP.

That's why you use a WS macro with +MP. 360MP per 100% TP, ignoring defense/stoneskin/absorb. Myrkr never misses and has no range. It removes negative effects and triggers aftermath. It is far superior to Spirit Taker.

[Korpg]

Why would you want SMN to skill chain? Why?

Why not? Who can say no to extra damage?

[Korpg]

That's why you use a WS macro with +MP. 360MP per 100% TP, ignoring defense/stoneskin/absorb. Myrkr never misses and has no range. It removes negative effects and triggers aftermath. It is far superior to Spirit Taker.

Even with +MP gear, you only have 1800 MP? I don't gear for MP and yet, I have over 2000 MP inside Abyssea.

Also, bolded part shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Myrkr does 0 damage. Of course it will ignore defense, stoneskin, and absorb damage, because it does no damage. Are you still saying that 0 damage WS makes a melee SMN worth it over an extra 2~5k damage when gearing up for magical damage on avatars? Even if you and the avatar crits, you still won't do the extra damage over the 45 seconds in between BPs, the extra damage I do when geared for it.

Also, my 17k Ukko's Fury says hi.

[Leonlionheart]

Pfffft 17k should be a crit hit, not an Ukko's itself! JK THO

I think the only way to get Dallas to not post in a SMN or job thread about lolmeleelolsmnlol is to never post another smn thread ever.

[Razushu]

Why would you want SMN to skill chain? Why?

Not the SMN, the Avatar, and as Korpg said why not? Our BPs used to be able to skill chain, I think we should get that back in some form.

Astral Synergy

Recast 2:00 minutes

Duration 30seconds or next Blood Pact: Rage

The next lvl 70 Blood Pact: Rage can be used in a skill chain. If closing the SC added effect is granted to your attack, consumes Avatar TP and effect's duration* is effected by this. Base duration at 0TP is 30 secs

*Duration increases linearly with TP to a max of 2 minutes. Every 3.33%TP grants 1 sec extra.

[Karbuncle]

Pfffft 17k should be a crit hit, not an Ukko's itself! JK THO

I think the only way to get Dallas to not post in a SMN or job thread about lolmeleelolsmnlol is to never post another smn thread ever.

Or just stop responding to him >_>?

[Pyrobunny]

when i get my empy staff i'm going to go all out and smn/sam everything b/c i can inside and outside of abyssea.... and if i get killed (cause u know how hard it is to get exp) i'll get up and try again... or come /rdm

plus when others die we smn survive

[Razushu]

You know until the bickering started SE was reading this thread. It's probably too late now anyway, I think as far as the reps are concerned this is just another thread not worth wading through to read the useful posts, but can we please try to get back on topic. There's plenty of threads to discuss things like melee and spirits, and we're all discussing those things there as is. Why drag those discussions here?

Can one thread in these forums not degenerate into a flame war, these forums are so we can contribute to the future of our favorite jobs. Why are some people doing their best to derail the one Summoner thread the reps were definitely reading? Please for the sake of SMN as a job class let's all at least pretend to get along, and try to dicuss SMN's future in realistic terms.

Summoner

Vision
Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.

Looking at their vision for Summoner any upcoming update is going to focus on us relying on our Avatars completely to do things, so lets try to stick to that train of thought posting here. I'm not saying stop discussing melee and spirits, just that we can and are doing it elsewhere. These topics are unlikely to recive a buff in the near future(if ever), and as such are less likely to be even looked at by the reps, not mentioning the fact that these 2 topics can also be highly incendiary and threads concerning them tend to descend into the kind of shouting match anyone having to read posts as part of their job will just plain avoid.

[Economizer]

Our BPs used to be able to skill chain, I think we should get that back in some form.

They still can, unless something weird changed? I think the problem these days is that most of the physical Blood Pacts that chain either suck, or don't chain well for high damage at higher levels.

I don't think that giving Summoner native access to WS is necessarily the solution to making Summoner melee more viable. It doesn't necessarily feel right from a flavor point of view. First, it removes White Mage from being the melee mage (ignoring Red Mage and Blue Mage, since they melee with non-magey weapons). Second, it just encourages Summoner to weapon skill, not weapon skill with a Blood Pact, which feels more right.

Perhaps giving White Mage's staff weapon skills to Summoner is part of the solution, but better chains and physical blood pacts that make good chains should be a bigger part of the solution. It makes the Summoner work with the summon, and gives Summoner melee a unique feel, instead of being a gimp melee with a pet.

Summoner should be able to make level 3 self Skillchains with a pet (a quick glance of the skillchain calculator indicated this is not currently possible, but the thing is still limited to level 75). This would be a very good start.