Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Malamasala]

I like not having skill chain properties. I've always ruined level 3 skillchains with my low level pacts when all I wanted to do was debuff the mob. If possible I'd rather they removed the ability completely, but instead separated the pacts on more timers.

PS. Can you really get back on track of the thread by talking about something that was not in the manifest? Aren't you actually just getting as much side-tracked as the spirit and melee SMN posts, except for skillchains in this case? Not that I care, everything related to SMN is on topic.

[Korpg]

I like not having skill chain properties. I've always ruined level 3 skillchains with my low level pacts when all I wanted to do was debuff the mob. If possible I'd rather they removed the ability completely, but instead separated the pacts on more timers.

PS. Can you really get back on track of the thread by talking about something that was not in the manifest? Aren't you actually just getting as much side-tracked as the spirit and melee SMN posts, except for skillchains in this case? Not that I care, everything related to SMN is on topic.

Wait, what situation would you be in where you would break up a skillchain to debuff a mob with a low level BP? What BP were you using, and why?

And why wasn't somebody who was there to debuff (like WHM) not debuffing? You do realize that a WHM's debuffs are more potent and accurate than a SMN's debuffs, right?

[Razushu]

I like not having skill chain properties. I've always ruined level 3 skillchains with my low level pacts when all I wanted to do was debuff the mob. If possible I'd rather they removed the ability completely, but instead separated the pacts on more timers.

PS. Can you really get back on track of the thread by talking about something that was not in the manifest? Aren't you actually just getting as much side-tracked as the spirit and melee SMN posts, except for skillchains in this case? Not that I care, everything related to SMN is on topic.

Then a Chain affinity type ability would be perfect, we would be able to pick and choose when to use it as a SC.

Nice try Mala, but it's about as on topic as you can get,

Vision
Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.

An ability that Lets a 70 pact close/open a Skill Chain with a debuff added effect fits the bolded text pretty well in my opinion. I didn't mean to offend by trying to hold a focused thread, the focus being Summoner in line with SE's vision. I just wanted to have someplace to discuss things SE may actually consider implementing. A place where the reps didn't have to wade through bickering, flames and requests for stuff the Devs aren't likely to develop(now, if ever).

[Neonii]

Then a Chain affinity type ability would be perfect, we would be able to pick and choose when to use it as a SC.


Nice try Mala, but it's about as on topic as you can get,



An ability that Lets a 70 pact close/open a Skill Chain with a debuff added effect fits the bolded text pretty well in my opinion. I didn't mean to offend by trying to hold a focused thread, the focus being Summoner in line with SE's vision. I just wanted to have someplace to discuss things SE may actually consider implementing. A place where the reps didn't have to wade through bickering, flames and requests for stuff the Devs aren't likely to develop(now, if ever).

Quoted for truth! Thank you, Thank you. The SC idea is interesting i"m not sure how I feel about it yet.

[Korpg]

If they do give a "Chain Affinity" to SMNs for BPs, I hope that the level 91+ can do light/darkness often. With their element (Ifrit/Cait Sith/Carbuncle/Garuda/Ramuh for light SC, Fenrir/Diabolos/Titan/Shiva/Leviathan for darkness). Only problem is, we can't magic burst at the same time....

[Malamasala]

Wait, what situation would you be in where you would break up a skillchain to debuff a mob with a low level BP? What BP were you using, and why?

And why wasn't somebody who was there to debuff (like WHM) not debuffing? You do realize that a WHM's debuffs are more potent and accurate than a SMN's debuffs, right?

Tried to remember what it was, and then it came to me.

KS99 Wyrm fight. Interested in SCing and MBing it to never fly (long). Refresh whoring with Diabolos. Use Somnolence since BP:Ward is up. Ruin skillchain. Also, I'm not sure if RDMs gravity all mobs? Even though gravity can never hurt to have on the mob. Unless you ruin the skillchain that is.

[Dallas]

Here's an old spirit taker number I took back in the day. Used to break over 1k with sneak attack tacked on there. It can be efficient too if played correctly. I once outparsed everyone in my dynamis linkshell except for a relic DRK, as SMN/THF.
Melee summoner's something fun that you can do now and again, but it's only really useful under certain circumstances. For instance, if the mobs you're fighitng have AOE damage, don't do it; if you're going to pull hate off of your avatar, dont do it.

I'm not sure if everyone's aware of this, but the point of melee smn is to use spirit taker to replenish your mp quickly, in order to spam BPs nonstop.

I realize most of the proponents of melee summoners on most summoner forums are just trolling. If anyone advocates the use of weaponskills besides spirit taker, they're probably trolling. However, using spirit taker is the fastest way to replenish your mp over time, and if done properly, will allow you to perform many more blood pacts before running out of mana (assuming you ever do run out of mana).

Spirit Taker is old-school. Myrkr is where it's at. Cataclysm may someday be survived.

[Rakshaka]

Spirit Taker is old-school. Myrkr is where it's at. Cataclysm may someday be survived.

I assume you're trolling, but in case you're not, Myrkr at 100% TP only restores 20% of your maximum MP. Spirit taker at 100% TP typically restores much more than that. This is assuming that you're fighting mobs that you could be meleeing in the first place. i.e. mobs without aoe/ mobs that you're not going to pull hate on / mobs that don't have nasty TP moves (feeding TP would be bad in this case).

[Korpg]

Tried to remember what it was, and then it came to me.

KS99 Wyrm fight. Interested in SCing and MBing it to never fly (long). Refresh whoring with Diabolos. Use Somnolence since BP:Ward is up. Ruin skillchain. Also, I'm not sure if RDMs gravity all mobs? Even though gravity can never hurt to have on the mob. Unless you ruin the skillchain that is.

Gravity > Somnolence. More accurate and longer lasting if a RDM or BLM/RDM casts it. Besides, you should have used Dream Shroud instead. Unless you already used it, then Ultimate Terror and hope it lands (which it won't). Somnolence does nothing but give out a few HP of damage.

The RDM or BLM/RDM should always cast Gravity on mobs that can be hit with Gravity, which in the case of your Wyrm, it wouldn't land as a BP. Believe it or not, a lot of debuffs (Levi's Slow, Titan's Slow, Diabolos's Gravity, etc) have a low proc rate. And are overwritten by actual spells.

[Korpg]

I assume you're trolling, but in case you're not, Myrkr at 100% TP only restores 20% of your maximum MP. Spirit taker at 100% TP typically restores much more than that. This is assuming that you're fighting mobs that you could be meleeing in the first place. i.e. mobs without aoe/ mobs that you're not going to pull hate on / mobs that don't have nasty TP moves (feeding TP would be bad in this case).

He isn't trolling. He honestly believes, and I quote, "Any SMN should melee on anything a WAR can."