Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Korpg]

SMN tanks?! More likely than you think :O! SMN/MNK GO!

lol but no... not really.

SMN/PLD or GTFO

[Yarly]

level a new job, problem solved.

[Tagrineth]

Remind me again why it is:

If you want to play a real melee, change job.

but not

If you want to play a real healer, change job.


Obviously you are just randomly picking your facts to create your own truth, when in fact melee and /WHM are two sides of the same coin.

I'll tell you exactly why this is the case and yes, admittedly it's a fault of FFXI's game design.

From /WHM you get Cure I through Cure IV. That's the same amount of healing prowess that any non-WHM Main gets. You also get more than enough Healing skill from the sub, and base MND, to hit the soft cap on all four of those cures. So with a /WHM sub on any job that has native MP, you're basically a mini RDM/SCH/PLD, and if you wear any compatible +MP or +Cure potency or +MND gear, your cures can stack up pretty well. Your cures will never "miss", either.

Melee wise, though, you are very much bound by your main job's prowess. You cannot feasibly, say, go WHM/MNK, equip Trainee Scissors, and expect to hit anything let alone deal relevant damage, since your combat skill is so incredibly significant to your ability to wield and swing the weapon. Even among main jobs, you don't see competent Warriors trying to main Dagger or Polearm instead of axes because the skill deficit just plain hurts too much (that and the severely nerfed weapon selection of course).

Even more relevant example: you never see Dragoons maining Staff. Dragoons are infinitely more capable of wielding a staff well than a Summoner - they get Accuracy Bonus job traits, and their combat skill at 90 is only 10 points below Summoner's. It's just not worth the severe cut to your attack and accuracy compared to a primary weapon.

Puppetmasters are permanently hobbled by their weak h2h skill cap, and it's 6 points higher than SMN's final Staff cap. Even when PUP's skill cap was raised from ~C to B+ it was still considered a bit of a slap in the face, since B+ is still a whopping 13 points behind an A- weapon - that's 13 attack and ~12 accuracy lost.

And that's all before even considering the actual Melee jobs' exclusive gear (SMN maxes out at 23 haste from gear, EVERY dedicated melee can hit 26 comfortably alongside other relevant stats) and job abilities/traits which can't be subbed.


Oh, and if you want to play a real healer, play WHM. Cure V&VI really are THAT important. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Korpg]

Oh, and if you want to play a real healer, play WHM. Cure V&VI really are THAT important. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Quoted for the absolute truth. I love hitting my 2600 Cure VIs. On Darksday too. Outside Abyssea.

[AyinDygra]

Another thought I had, in addition to SE's vision example:

Job Ability: Urgent Plea
(Stores 1 charge per minute, up to 5)
Allows the Summoner to activate any Bloodpact:Ward, even if another avatar is currently active.
* Doubles the MP cost of the ward.
* The avatar will still appear graphically, temporarily, but will not have a real Pet-style presence in the battle.

There are probably a few technical hurdles to overcome with this idea due to the avatar not being physically present, such as targeting and range of the ward (I'd make the target be the center of the range) but it allows the Wards to be used more freely, while keeping the Rages separate, perhaps using the proposed ability in SE's vision statement to lower rage timers in exchange for higher costs.

Clearly the idea needs refining, but it has potential.

[Duelle]

Job Ability: Urgent Plea
(Stores 1 charge per minute, up to 5)
Allows the Summoner to activate any Bloodpact:Ward, even if another avatar is currently active.
* Doubles the MP cost of the ward.
* The avatar will still appear graphically, temporarily, but will not have a real Pet-style presence in the battle.

There are probably a few technical hurdles to overcome with this idea due to the avatar not being physically present, such as targeting and range of the ward (I'd make the target be the center of the range) but it allows the Wards to be used more freely, while keeping the Rages separate, perhaps using the proposed ability in SE's vision statement to lower rage timers in exchange for higher costs.

Clearly the idea needs refining, but it has potential.

I like where that's going. It basically mimics how summons act in other FFs, adds to what SMN can do, and I can think of no negatives from it.

[Dallas]

And that's all before even considering the actual Melee jobs' exclusive gear (SMN maxes out at 23 haste from gear, EVERY dedicated melee can hit 26 comfortably alongside other relevant stats) and job abilities/traits which can't be subbed.

SMN gets its CHOICE of: 15% Haste, 30-50 Acc, 30 Att, 22 MAB (Cata), 24% DA, ??% Crit Rate

No subjob, not counting any gear. I consider all of these to be relevant melee stats.

[Razushu]

SMN gets its CHOICE of: 15% Haste, 30-50 Acc, 30 Att, 22 MAB (Cata), 24% DA, ??% Crit Rate

No subjob, not counting any gear. I consider all of these to be relevant melee stats.

Yet even with all those at a SMN's disposal(forgetting the fact they're party buffs), you can only manage a fraction of a DD's damage.

[Dallas]

Yet even with all those at a SMN's disposal(forgetting the fact they're party buffs), you can only manage a fraction of a DD's damage.

LOL. I know you know of the buffs Raz. Everyone told you to level BRD when you told them that cycling them is a good use of a party slot. Do you honestly believe, based on Tag's post, that he has no knowledge of SMN's buffs? Or, do you agree with me, that he is purposely ignoring them like so many people seem to do?

Yes, they are party buffs, meaning they are more powerful than just job traits. Chances that anti-melee will admit that? I'm guessing zero.

Voidwatch released a lot of armor with Spheres, party buffs that DON'T buff the wearer. Everything that SMN does works better than that.

[Leonlionheart]

LOL. I know you know of the buffs Raz. Everyone told you to level BRD when you told them that cycling them is a good use of a party slot. Do you honestly believe, based on Tag's post, that he has no knowledge of SMN's buffs? Or, do you agree with me, that he is purposely ignoring them like so many people seem to do?

Yes, they are party buffs, meaning they are more powerful than just job traits. Chances that anti-melee will admit that? I'm guessing zero.

Voidwatch released a lot of armor with Spheres, party buffs that DON'T buff the wearer. Everything that SMN does works better than that.

I thought you only played with BSTs?