Completely gut and rework WS accessibility

[Rayik]

They probably did it to encourage using different sub jobs. A rdm gets those sword weapon skills with war sub for example. And I prefer exclusive weapon skills to stay exclusive. Hexa to whm. Swift blade to PLD. DE to THF onl.... Yeah ok whatever DNC. You only got it because SE lacked imagination on an exclusive WS for you. Etc examples.

Sure, I agree. RDM should have those weapon skills as standard. But will you ever sub a melee job on RDM after you got them? Probably not short of THF or DRK if the BLM isn't leveled for stun/comes with warp. And that's probably why you won't see things adjusted in this department. But on the other hand what's right is right, and it is right for a RDM to have all native sword weapon skills.

Good points. I can see how it gives job some variety, but at the very least I think it's in dire need of revision.

Yes, I can sub a melee job and get access to those ws's, but my point is the player shouldn't have to, when comparable jobs get them natively. The bulk of any jobs damage output with one-handed weapons comes from Dual-Wielding, but for RDM you have to choose to either Dual-Wield with crappy ws's, or single-hand it and have better ws's(and horrid TP generation). The way the ws's are distributed just seems sort of random and half-assed, like the way RDM's best ws's are with daggers, yet it's Mythic, Empyrean, Magian, and most job specific weapons are swords. Getting Shield Mastery with a F skill in Shield is a funny one too, but that's a whole other thing.

If there was more of a standard for DRK's(a job that gets the best sword ws's) to use swords, for example, I would gladly use sword on that job too, but the game itself works against it(2H bonuses, Desperate Blows, etc.). It just seems very sloppy to me; I'm just asking the Devs to clean things up and make things a bit more consistent. I'm not asking for new gear or JA's, just fix what we have.

[Razushu]

Yes, I can sub a melee job and get access to those ws's, but my point is the player shouldn't have to, when comparable jobs get them natively. The bulk of any jobs damage output with one-handed weapons comes from Dual-Wielding, but for RDM you have to choose to either Dual-Wield with crappy ws's, or single-hand it and have better ws's(and horrid TP generation). The way the ws's are distributed just seems sort of random and half-assed, like the way RDM's best ws's are with daggers, yet it's Mythic, Empyrean, Magian, and most job specific weapons are swords. Getting Shield Mastery with a F skill in Shield is a funny one too, but that's a whole other thing.

I think that was done on purpose, as a mage/melee hybrid you have to chose between higher DPS or better WS. I'd say they'll fix shield skill sooner or later, it's pretty silly as is.

If there was more of a standard for DRK's(a job that gets the best sword ws's) to use swords, for example, I would gladly use sword on that job too, but the game itself works against it(2H bonuses, Desperate Blows, etc.). It just seems very sloppy to me; I'm just asking the Devs to clean things up and make things a bit more consistent. I'm not asking for new gear or JA's, just fix what we have.

Looking at who WS and weapon skill levels are awarded to jobs to sort of reflect how someone would learn things in real life(I'm aware magic doesn't exist fyi), but if you divide your focus over multiple topics you'll learn lots of each although never as much as someone who focuses on less topics. I think it is fairly consistent as is.

In the example of RDM, a RDM is someone who spends their time divided up between learning to fence, use black magic and learning to heal. As a result of this divided focus they never reach the peak of any one of these fields but have decent knowledge of all. This means they never learn the most powerful techniques of them, but will have a variety of skills.

When looked at against a DRK, someone who has focused on offense and has only dabbled in black magic themselves and completely ignored healing magics. As they are more focused on fewer skills(in this case the martial arts) they will be better with any weapons they've picked up.

[Kristal]

In the example of RDM, a RDM is someone who spends their time divided up between learning to fence, use black magic and learning to heal. As a result of this divided focus they never reach the peak of any one of these fields but have decent knowledge of all. This means they never learn the most powerful techniques of them, but will have a variety of skills.

Elemental weaponskills are a combination of magic and melee. The very thing that defines Red Mage. We even get spells to enhance our regular melee strikes with added magic damage. But not on weaponskills, no...

Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade and Sanguine Blade are all WS that should have been RDM main from the start.

[Rayik]

Elemental weaponskills are a combination of magic and melee. The very thing that defines Red Mage. We even get spells to enhance our regular melee strikes with added magic damage. But not on weaponskills, no...

Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade and Sanguine Blade are all WS that should have been RDM main from the start.

What's hilarious, is that RDM gets some of the dagger elemental WS, and not sword. What the Flying Fuuuu..............

[Razushu]

Elemental weaponskills are a combination of magic and melee. The very thing that defines Red Mage. We even get spells to enhance our regular melee strikes with added magic damage. But not on weaponskills, no...

Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade and Sanguine Blade are all WS that should have been RDM main from the start.

By that logic jobs without elemental magic shouldn't get access to elemental WS. WS distribution tends to be based on the questions, Is this weapon a focus of the job? Or do we[the devs] feel it is balanced to give them these skills natively? RDM isn't a single focus job it's a 3-way hybrid and lack of top tier in any one field is just a pitfall of this style. As it stands they seem to want RDM to have to choose between high DPS(/NIN) and access to better WS(/WAR etc.).

RDM is fine as a light DD/support role. I'd happily party with one. The biggest obstacle to RDM melee is community viewpoint. If we had more RDMs that could melee while providing support where needed, this viewpoint would change.

On Red lotus blade I could agree with you. But Seraph /Sanguine blade are light/dark element which RDM doesn't really have access to. Plus in the case of Sanguine blade it's highest level WS sword skill gets you. Seeing how RDM is a "part-time" melee it makes no sense that they should learn the strongest attacks with a weapon.

[Ironside]

Plus in the case of Sanguine blade it's highest level WS sword skill gets you. Seeing how RDM is a "part-time" melee it makes no sense that they should learn the strongest attacks with a weapon.

I think the confusing part about RDM not getting Sanguine Blade is that their usual melee, exclusive, and iconic weapons are swords, while they get the high-end weaponskills (including Aeolian Edge, which is the skill equivalent of Sanguine Blade) of Dagger but not Sword.

[Razushu]

I think the confusing part about RDM not getting Sanguine Blade is that their usual melee, exclusive, and iconic weapons are swords, while they get the high-end weaponskills (including Aeolian Edge, which is the skill equivalent of Sanguine Blade) of Dagger but not Sword.

That is a weird one. Maybe SE are playing the same game as with the subjob. High DPS or strong WS, not both. Good WS poor weapon selection vs. good weapon choice poorer WS.

[Rayik]

On Red lotus blade I could agree with you. But Seraph /Sanguine blade are light/dark element which RDM doesn't really have access to. Plus in the case of Sanguine blade it's highest level WS sword skill gets you. Seeing how RDM is a "part-time" melee it makes no sense that they should learn the strongest attacks with a weapon.

Highest level does not equal strongest attacks. Raging Rush out damages Fell Cleave against single mobs by a long shot. Vorpal Blade trounces Sanguine unless you're brewing. And by this logic, RDM shouldn't have Aoelian Edge, but they do.

[Razushu]

Highest level does not equal strongest attacks. Raging Rush out damages Fell Cleave against single mobs by a long shot. Vorpal Blade trounces Sanguine unless you're brewing. And by this logic, RDM shouldn't have Aoelian Edge, but they do.

SE seems to want to make RDM choose between things when it comes to melee. Your choice of sub job will give you either higher DPS(NIN) or stronger WS(WAR), and with weapons you get great selection but lesser choice in WS, or poor selection in weapons and good WS.