Why are we advertized as fighter-mages when White Mages can out-do us?

[Tamarsamar]

Prior to the cap increase, everybody was up in arms that SCH was going to take over RDM's role. Where are you guys now?

Well, you know me: I was actually wanting for that to happen. But nobody saw the level cap increase coming, and since White Mages are now the kings of healing once more, I still got my desired result, but just through a somewhat different method.

Of course, if White Mages can still melee better than us, too, then the job is really only half-done. Thus this thread.

[Hyrist]

A RDM is capable of curing, nuking, enfeebling and meleeing, you need all this equipment, it also helps to have a -MDT and -PDT build.

A Red Mage with a 'full curing build' needs to be slapped, hard and repetitively. Any 'set' that amounts to more than a light's staff (IF that's ALL you're doing) and you're spare MND Gear from your potency set and you're over-doing it.

Most of our casting needs are covered by piecemealing our Relic, AF, and Emperyian in various set ups. You can choose to try to push Nuking or Enfeebeling potency for specific situations, but RDMs are known for going WELL overboard with min/maxing every possible cast.

Other than that, our Gear crosses over well. INT and MND pieces, as well as any Magic Attack bonuses, fit well into Aeolean Edge and Sanguine Blade. (MND for Death Blossom as well) The Melee sets tend to stick out somewhat but that's because they're an entire different department.

Sure, you're carrying a number of sets on you a lot, but this is no different from ANY OTHER JOB. And with a full 80 inventory, plus a possible additional 160 from Satchel and Sack, there really should be no complaints on inventory room. You just need to look at what clutter you're hanging onto and get rid of the junk. Retire pieces that aren't giving you much of a bonus or can be substituted for something that fights multiple roles.

If you're on gear overload, you're over-loading yourself. Quit being obsessive about a faction of a percent.

I sometimes use dagger when I melee. I think its sad that SE wants to steer rdm into swords yet I can outdo that whm if I use dagger and gear for dex on my ws set. *ducks and covers* pls dun lynch me. >.>

Dagger will be your best main hand weapon until you get a Badelaire +2 And you will notice that CDC kinda blows Evisceration out of the water in spite of being 2 hits less. (Double the Dex Mod on a 58 Damage Weapon kinda makes up the difference.)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

A Red Mage with a 'full curing build' needs to be slapped, hard and repetitively. Any 'set' that amounts to more than a light's staff (IF that's ALL you're doing) and you're spare MND Gear from your potency set and you're over-doing it.

Most of our casting needs are covered by piecemealing our Relic, AF, and Emperyian in various set ups. You can choose to try to push Nuking or Enfeebeling potency for specific situations, but RDMs are known for going WELL overboard with min/maxing every possible cast.

Other than that, our Gear crosses over well. INT and MND pieces, as well as any Magic Attack bonuses, fit well into Aeolean Edge and Sanguine Blade. (MND for Death Blossom as well) The Melee sets tend to stick out somewhat but that's because they're an entire different department.

Sure, you're carrying a number of sets on you a lot, but this is no different from ANY OTHER JOB. And with a full 80 inventory, plus a possible additional 160 from Satchel and Sack, there really should be no complaints on inventory room. You just need to look at what clutter you're hanging onto and get rid of the junk. Retire pieces that aren't giving you much of a bonus or can be substituted for something that fights multiple roles.

If you're on gear overload, you're over-loading yourself. Quit being obsessive about a faction of a percent.



Dagger will be your best main hand weapon until you get a Badelaire +2 And you will notice that CDC kinda blows Evisceration out of the water in spite of being 2 hits less. (Double the Dex Mod on a 58 Damage Weapon kinda makes up the difference.)

I disagree, having a Cure potency set whether we are meant to cure or not is a great investment. AoE and such forth a RDM healing is a great help to the main healer as it'd lessen the load and reduce the risk of a stray hit or nuke killing a DD when the WHM prioritizes (rightly) the current "tank." (Which in my opinion is how a RDM is supposed to work along with helping the WHM buff SE just messed the durations up) Getting less potency out of your cures is pointless.

I also disagree that 80 spaces are enough, they're not, I'd be happy with 100 (or happier with more than 100) but 80 is not enough, having ourselves limited due to the PS2 is a pain, even more so when SE don't allow you to macro from your sack or satchel.

SquareEnix made the game so switching gear beforecast/midcast effects the potency so as such they should allow enough space for us to get maximum sets and use them. Jumping in and out of your sack/satchel is not logical either.

[Seriha]

Cure potency isn't that fractional, though. Sure, WHMs get more of it, and it's more effective with Cure V and VI since those spells start with higher base numbers, but even if you manage somewhere around 30%, that's 20% more than just the light staff, and for C4, roughly 80 HP. When curing consistently, that adds up fast and is certainly more visible than a few more MND on a Slow/Para.

Gear overload is a concern if you're trying to keep yourself well-rounded and above par, and we all know the moment someone starts slacking at some caster aspect, they're suddenly doinitrong.

[Orenwald]

I take NIN to most abyssea events because let's face it, I'm the only Empyrean NIN my friends know. This being said, my RDM/pld outside abyssea does some stupid crap. With a good build for it and your trusty Joyeuse, Sanguine Blade will mess things up, and the auto-refresh from /pld really helps make up for the time you don't rest. It's pretty dope.

[Supersun]

To be fair, it's not like Rdm gets a TON of cure potency gear., and you'll likely already have the serpentines set and the TotM staff on you if you have them.

After that there's only 2 more pieces that I know of which are the Fylgja Torque (+1) and the Roundel Earring. Both of which are slightly expensive for their relative benefit and at least for me are lower on my priority list to grab.

Other then that the only other pieces that will have potency on them are augmented pieces like the 3 add on expansions which since we are talking about melee Rdm...yeah..., and the genbu shield which unless SE gives us some awesome new trait to go with shield mastery makes it rather hard to use with the staff.

[Hyrist]

Cure potency isn't that fractional, though. Sure, WHMs get more of it, and it's more effective with Cure V and VI since those spells start with higher base numbers, but even if you manage somewhere around 30%, that's 20% more than just the light staff, and for C4, roughly 80 HP. When curing consistently...

Stop yourself, right there.

If you're curing consistently, you're not meleeing, period. Augure sets nice as it fits and works well as part of your idle gear. Surya's is good when you' are focused on healing.

But when you're gearing for rounded play, you wear rounded gear. We've already long since established that the roles of a front and back line Red Mage differ, as should their gear sets and usages.

That means pick and choose. There are pieces of gear that serve no other pourpose but to push maybe 1 spell. Those could be done without.

Now, going through the gear (remember I've been gone half a year) for direct cure potency, I see there's been some decent bits added. But don't be stretching yourself for "Healing Magic Skill" Gear. (And if you front the money for Rondel Earring, I'll take a 2 mil donation.) But mainly, I see Torque, Staff, Gloves/Feet. I really woulden't call 4 pieces a set, but I see the reasons for getting them.

In the end what peices you drop and what pieces you keep will depend on your circumstnaces. For me, curing is in abundance, damage is not. So Healing gear takes a back seat to nuking gear, and even then I'm likely not maxing out my nuking gear.

I'm not ignoring the point made that if you try to push yourself in every direction, you're going to hit your inventory limit. My counterpoint is that you should balance your gear out with what you do, and weigh in on what's important, and what's you just fluffing yourself.

Pushing your cures in a situation in which your cures a highly needed makes sense. But if that's the case, why are you toting around your full nuking gear? If you consider your gear limits like Blue Mages consider their spell set points, gear really isn't an issue.

Gear for what you do, stow what you don't.

[Seriha]

Hiiiiiii BG!

Anyway, I just look at it from the perspective of, since we're behind the specialists in most any given field, employing whatever gear to help bring us up to their level should be one of our priorities. While it's part of a leader's responsibility to guarantee a given role is covered, the impracticality of shuffling needed gear around when a situation arises (Of which it's suddenly the melee RDM's fault when shit hits the fan) is largely why I've been parading for hybrid gear that doesn't suck. Few others classes actually need to break 70 slots just to do their primary and more common secondary functions well. Meanwhile, we've gotta weigh options just to make sure seals can randomly fall to us or other loot if not trying to be a one-trick pony.

[ManaKing]

I take NIN to most abyssea events because let's face it, I'm the only Empyrean NIN my friends know. This being said, my RDM/pld outside abyssea does some stupid crap. With a good build for it and your trusty Joyeuse, Sanguine Blade will mess things up, and the auto-refresh from /pld really helps make up for the time you don't rest. It's pretty dope.

I have heard ridiculous things about RDM/PLD. I am very interested, but I want a good tank set before I want to try it out.

[Duelle]

No, that would've been a useless situation. Even now, that's what the developers are saying with every bit of promotional material they have about RDM right down to their promises about what kind of updates the job will get. They could shout until they're breathless and people are not going to listen if, for the purpose of the game, it just doesn't work.

Well, words alone won't change much. I meant more along the lines "Our intention for Red Mage is <insert intention>. While we understand mechanics are/aren't in place for allow for this, we do plan on making changes to the job so that this becomes reality. We'll also be looking at X, Y and Z as possible candidates for buffs/nerfs". And them actually going through with it.

You know, as somebody who actually plays SCH and RDM, I am disappointed I somehow can't convince you guys otherwise of this. I already tried to hammer across in the other thread that playing SCH requires some foresight and a lot of "setting up" to do the things that it does well and the two jobs still play on different strengths. Even now, RDM's strengths are more valuable to the playerbase than SCH's and, if you can't see that, than I'm afraid nothing I say will convince you otherwise that the two jobs are different.

What I'm saying is that SCH is better at playing an effective hybrid game than a RDM ever would. SCH has mechanics in place that support their roles and allows the player to go off on that to do what they want to do. RDM, on the other hand, has no such things and is thus burdened with an uphill battle to prove "hey, I can do this too".

The only reason SCH is "useless" is because it has not been given refresh or haste natively and can't cure bomb the way WHM is currently capable of. The day that changes will be the day RDM's relevancy as support will finally be extinguished.

Prior to the cap increase, everybody was up in arms that SCH was going to take over RDM's role. Where are you guys now?

Not everybody. The bandwagon Red Mages were. I've been sitting here waiting for it to happen so that our job can be given a real direction without being burdened by the current perceived duties and role of the job.

I sometimes use dagger when I melee. I think its sad that SE wants to steer rdm into swords yet I can outdo that whm if I use dagger and gear for dex on my ws set. *ducks and covers* pls dun lynch me. >.>

*blink* Why would we? Sword is known to have generally crappy selection when it comes to WS, made worse due to RDM natively lacking the better ones of that bunch.