Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Cream_Soda]

Because too many WHMs suck at their jobs?

And so do a lot of smns, what's your point?

Again, you're trying to compare a bad whm to a good smn.

Compare good vs good or bad vs bad.

I can say my pup can out DD a ukon war, which it can, if the war is absolutely horrible and sucks at their job. Does that make pup an awesome DD? Sure doesn't.


So let me get this straight, you're basing your utility off of other pt members sucking? lol
"The suckier my whm is the more my job has to offer to you!"

[Korpg]

I never claimed my first post was about the current topic in the past few pages. I said I've made posts which contribute to that conversation. Learn to read. My first post was to correct a mistake a saw and provide additional information based on what I quoted. Am I going to read 600+ posts to see if someone already addressed you? No sir. If you expected me to, tough luck. I saw some of the jobs I posted mentioned in the few posts I did read, but not all of the jobs I mentioned.

So, basically you jump into any/everything and not bother to read further, right? And I thought you were smart.

Guess that is assumption number 3. Thinking you were smart enough to know that something on page 2 out of 60+ is worthy of bringing back to "correct" was not talked about since the mistake was made on page 2.

[Alhanelem]

Again, you're trying to compare a bad whm to a good smn.

No, i'm comparing typical to typical.

It's a lot harder for a summoner to suck at hasting a party than it is for a WHM to suck at hasting a party.

[Cream_Soda]

So, basically you jump into any/everything and not bother to read further, right? And I thought you were smart.

Guess that is assumption number 3. Thinking you were smart enough to know that something on page 2 out of 60+ is worthy of bringing back to "correct" was not talked about since the mistake was made on page 2.

I didn't assume it wasn't talked about. I said I didn't care to read 600 posts. Whether or not it was talked about, I didn't really care.
It being said by someone else doesn't make it any less correct when I say it.

And I'm still waiting for you to point out where I told smns how to play their jobs, or did you just say that for w/e reason you deemed fit, without any merit of any sort?

[Cream_Soda]

No, i'm comparing typical to typical.

It's a lot harder for a summoner to suck at hasting a party than it is for a WHM to suck at hasting a party.

If we're talking typical vs typical, the typical smn is absolutely horrible. I've pt'd w/ good smns, and I would again. A typical smn, I wouldn't let anywhere near anything I was doing.

[Razushu]

A) Why wouldn't the whm be hasting the group?
B) that'd be the same thing as if I were saying "If the smn decides to hastega the group"

You're trying to compare a bad whm to what you think a good smn is.

If you're comparing, compare a good smn to a good whm and a bad smn to a bad whm

So if the whm isn't hasting, comparison wise, why is the smn hasting?

And yes, the smn brings more than haste to the group, but what is it bringing that outweighs putting another job in its place?

short answer because I've said this alot today a mix of DD/buffs/Support.

Sometimes WHMs don't or can't haste I've seen it, unfortunately outside abyssea my WHMs gear isn't great I work my butt off when I'm on it, and I'm always trying to get better gear for it but if I find myself in a group needing lots of cures haste tends to slip as I don't have the MP to keep it on everyone full time(unless I have a RDM or BRD which isn't always the case)

The WHM shouldn't be hasting the party because there's a SMN there buffing the party any way

[Alhanelem]

If we're talking typical vs typical, the typical smn is absolutely horrible.

And so is the typical white mage, as I illustrated. I'm being very generous if I say less than half of all white mages i've ever partied with consistently kept everyone hasted. Realistically, less than a third.

Summoner doesn't have cure V and VI, or (re)raise II and III. that's really the only disadvantage to summoner over WHM. Summoner has access to more buffs and all of the buffs gained are AoE and can be used on everyone.

Even if you don't want to accept that a relic/empyrean staff does anything whatsoever for summoner, you should be able to accept that they are completely competent at support.

[Cream_Soda]

Sometimes WHMs don't or can't haste I've seen it,

Again, I said you're comparing bad whms to good smns.

The WHM shouldn't be hasting the party because there's a SMN there buffing the party any way

and you're missing my point.

My point was
Pt w/o a smn = has haste
pt w/ smn = has haste

There is no diff in haste being on, regardless of whether or not you have a smn.

I never said not to let the smn haste if there is one in your group.

[Cream_Soda]

And so is the typical white mage, as I illustrated. I'm being very generous if I say less than half of all white mages i've ever partied with consistently kept everyone hasted. Realisitcally, less than a third.

and I'm being very generous saying that less than half of the smns I've pt'd with weren't absolute crap

I'd take a good whm over a good smn and I'd take a crap whm over a crap smn.

[Alhanelem]

I'll take a good summoner over a good white mage, unless the handful of things the white mage has that the summoner doesn't are absolutely critical to success.