Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

How does smn do dmg if they're casting support spells and avatars for buffs? What are these buffs anyway? I am not familiar with smn so much. I think it's been covered pretty well in this thread that smn doesn't do any useful dmg.

Would not a war/dnc be better? They can do dmg, support heals, and party buffs too.(and they're all instant, no casting!)

the Damage comes From BP: Rages 2k damage every 45secs isn't great, but coming from a guy who is cycling ~4 buffs including haste and is still helping the mages support the party it's a nice bonus.

We can give a fairly wide array of buffs only thing we're really missing is a realistic refresh We give some nice offensive buffs like hastega and enfire and attack bonus.

We can defnesive buffs like Earthen armor and nocto shield and shining ruby.

And hate free AoE heals.

Aside from the summoning time avatar buffs are instant cast, after it goes off I'm back to supporting the party instantly. Plus the WAR will be wasting it's TP to cure thus lowering it's overall damage.Plus I don't see why I'd be competing with the WAR/DNC our buffs and his buffs/debuffs would stack so if we worked together we would bosst the party better and he could get back to DDing not worrying about cures

[Bumbeen]

the Damage comes From BP: Rages 2k damage every 45secs isn't great, but coming from a guy who is cycling ~4 buffs including haste and is still helping the mages support the party it's a nice bonus.

We can give a fairly wide array of buffs only thing we're really missing is a realistic refresh We give some nice offensive buffs like hastega and enfire and attack bonus.

We can defnesive buffs like Earthen armor and nocto shield and shining ruby.

And hate free AoE heals.

Aside from the summoning time avatar buffs are instant cast, after it goes off I'm back to supporting the party instantly. Plus the WAR will be wasting it's TP to cure thus lowering it's overall damage.Plus I don't see why I'd be competing with the WAR/DNC our buffs and his buffs/debuffs would stack so if we worked together we would bosst the party better and he could get back to DDing not worrying about cures

Damn that is awesome didn't know smn had all those buffs. I think best would maybe to get a whole PT of smns together then, and they could all buff and support each other and do some dmg too.

[Razushu]

Damn that is awesome didn't know smn had all those buffs. I think best would maybe to get a whole PT of smns together then, and they could all buff and support each other and do some dmg too.

If they made it so pets can recieve buffs that would help.

Pet burns are awesome and great fun butit can be hard to get 4-5 other SMNs to kill the same mob because chances are we want the same gear off it

[TybudX]

COR can either focus on DD or support to go along with thier buffs. Thier damage will be better and thier buffs most likely better But they're hardly leaving SMN in the dust.

They really are. For example, with GGs sample mob from before a COR's damage from WSs alone would be about 540dps. That isn't factoring in QD damage or TP phase damage. They supply buffs that are straight up competitive with BRD. Flat out 18% more attack, or 16% more DA, or 20% more TP, etc. [I]Strong[/I] buffs which are universally good. If a COR does /whm it is just as capable of throwing out -nas and back up healing as a SMN. It doesn't do 'one or the other' any more than SMN is doing 'one or the other'. If BRD didn't have unique magic Haste songs (and now Scherzo) you would use 2x COR instead, it's that good.

[Alhanelem]

smn can give 10% JA haste?

edit: misread

edit2: actually I still don't know wtf you're saying.

No, it can give 15% spell haste, which is a larger amount of haste than 10% when considered individually. The only thing that makes haste samba "better" is that it fills haste in a different category. It's only "better" because it's "necessary." Spell haste is necessary too, it's simply more readily available. And until you have your spell haste, spell haste is superior to JA haste because it affects attack speed and cast timers, while JA haste only affects attack speed.

The appropriate sentence would be "Samba haste is more *important* than haste because you can't always have it, while haste is much easier to obtain."

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On COR: It seems like people are vastly underestimating it's possible damage output CORs use guns, and they don't kid around. CORs have a bit lower skill than RNG and don't have the offensive JAs of RNG, but their damage can still be good if they focus on it. This requries standing in the apprpriate position of course, so buffing of others might suffer unless you move to buff and move back to ideal range. But COR is a pretty under-rated job. I think the only reason it's not played more is because it's expensive.

[Razushu]

They really are. For example, with GGs sample mob from before a COR's damage from WSs alone would be about 540dps. That isn't factoring in QD damage or TP phase damage. They supply buffs that are straight up competitive with BRD. Flat out 18% more attack, or 16% more DA, or 20% more TP, etc. [I]Strong[/I] buffs which are universally good. If a COR does /whm it is just as capable of throwing out -nas and back up healing as a SMN. It doesn't do 'one or the other' any more than SMN is doing 'one or the other'. If BRD didn't have unique magic Haste songs (and now Scherzo) you would use 2x COR instead, it's that good.

Again no one is saying my SMN will out DD will out damage a COR. I don't now why I have to repeat that every second post or so. Also this is a style I've been playing for a long time so I know it works it isn't as effective as a COR DD/buffer or a COR support/buffer but the combo of support/DD/buffer is still effective enough to warrant my place.

[Alhanelem]

We can give a fairly wide array of buffs only thing we're really missing is a realistic refresh

Uh, Favor is a great source of refresh, in part because it's a different effect like COR's and BRDs and stacks with all of them. If you're being stuck with the mages, it's basically the best favor effect (well, there's MAB on shiva too)

[hiko]

The thing is you should always have Haste spell on anyway, with or without a SMN. In the ideal DD setup (where you will want perfect haste) you should have DD DD DD DD DNC WHM where the DNC drops and a BRD comes in to rotate songs.

In that case you will never have a SMN, and that's another reason Samba is better.

But seriously It's much MUCH better than Hastega because its JA haste where Magic haste will usually be capped assuming you have BRD.

droping the dnc is stupid, a buffed dnc is better than an unbeffed one (drop the whm, he don't need to be in pt for most spells anyway)

Why not DD DD DD DD/DNC SMN WHM and the BRD and SMN rotate exact same effect but it doesn't take 80secs for the WHM to finish haste cycle

because DD/DDsub +DNC outdmg DD/dnc +smn

and why use a job that is only good once every min to save haste cycle to the whm?
and IMO if smn have a buff that is worth using, loosing 45sec because you wasted your ward for hastega when the whm could have done it is waste.

[Greatguardian]

Good god. How many groups are these people in where there are no other mages tossing out Haste such that Summoner's Hastega suddenly means a flying frappoli?

Protip: When the people in the party would be getting Spell Haste with or without a Summoner, Hastega means absolutely nothing. You are not providing 15% Haste to the party. You are providing 120~ MP to the White or Red Mage. Net gain to DDs from Summoner's Hastega? Zero.

I'm not sure where this "I can do 3 things that Cor can do, all weaker than COR, but I still earn my place" deal is coming from either. I'm sorry, but your definition of "earning a spot" is just different from other people's. Are people going to kick you out of the spot for being useless? No. Are you really contributing as much as anyone else in the group? I'm sorry, but absolutely not. Fortunately for Summoners everywhere, FFXI players are used to having to pull other people's weight on a regular basis.

[Razushu]

Uh, Favor is a great source of refresh, in part because it's a different effect like COR's and BRDs and stacks with all of them. If you're being stuck with the mages, it's basically the best favor effect (well, there's MAB on shiva too)

Yeah it's just the constant resetting that brings it down for me. If they ever fix favor I'd gladly use it lol