Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

I'd rather have a WHM who can Haste everybody and keep them alive, but hey, you showed up on melee SMN. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

At 75 my SMN could easily replace a WHM on anything that didn't specifally require something from WHM, like Stona. Nowadays nobody would invite a SMN to main heal, the invites I get are for DD/buffs/support which I can provide all 3 decently a any given time

[Byrth]

? What?

If you're going to make a serious melee party, you're going to bring a BRD/WHM. If you have a BRD/WHM, Hastega isn't an issue. If Hastega isn't an issue and you're using Predator claws, you don't contribute any buffs at all. Even if you're pulling out Ifrit and giving Double Attack or something (but giving up Predator Claws), your buffs are totally negligible compared to the advantages WAR has over you that I totally negated in my comparison. (Double Attack, Berserk, Blood Rage, Crit damage trait, base stats, weapon skill, gear). Heck, Blood Rage and Warcry probably make Warrior a better buffer than you in a melee party.

Also, the argument isn't "Oh man, I have a Summoner in the melee party getting melee buffs. Should he melee or not?"
The argument is, "I'm making a melee party, should I bring a Summoner?"

[Razushu]

For you, that's only 100 out of 400. You've already chosen to remove 75% of SMN.

No you've replaced 75% of SMN with melee. We aren't a DD class, as a DD we're very replacable but as a support class we hold our own nicely

[Razushu]

? What?

If you're going to make a serious melee party, you're going to bring a BRD/WHM. If you have a BRD/WHM, Hastega isn't an issue. If Hastega isn't an issue and you're using Predator claws, you don't contribute any buffs at all. Even if you're pulling out Ifrit and giving Double Attack or something (but giving up Predator Claws), your buffs are totally negligible compared to the advantages WAR has over you that I totally negated in my comparison. (Double Attack, Berserk, Blood Rage, Crit damage trait, base stats, weapon skill, gear). Heck, Blood Rage and Warcry probably make Warrior a better buffer than you in a melee party.

Also, the argument isn't "Oh man, I have a Summoner in the melee party getting melee buffs. Should he melee or not?"
The argument is, "I'm making a melee party, should I bring a Summoner?"

I've been in melee parties and easily validated my place there with my mix of buffs, DD and support

[Alhanelem]

In which case, replace all melee SMN with real DDs. Problem solved.

If you're an elitist jerk, yes. Otherwise, nobody cares.

[Byrth]

I've been in melee parties and easily validated my place there with my mix of buffs, DD and support

Well, realistically if your party didn't have a Bard, you would have been better off as a Bard. I wasn't replying to your post directly above it though. I just post slow, haha.

[Razushu]

Well, realistically if your party didn't have a Bard, you would have been better off as a Bard. I wasn't replying to your post directly above it though. I just post slow, haha.

lol I think thats twice you've caught me like that. I'm not saying the buffs I give are as good as a BRDs but they're still useful and I can put more than 2 on a player at once and I add damage to the mix. This the people I play with seem to find a reasonable trade off

[Dallas]

If you're going to make a serious melee party

... which no one does anymore.

The party setup is currently: MNK, WHM, WAR (naked for procs), BLM (naked for procs), THF, ???

No buffs. That multitasking SMN looks pretty effin' good. Maybe we can get GG to throw some unbuffed epeen numbers. Probably not, we want Ukon!

[TybudX]

If you're an elitist jerk, yes. Otherwise, nobody cares.

If you want the slot, you need to be worth it. BRD, WHM, COR, are all better doing party buffs than SMN. It's been said many times, the only thing SMN excels at right now is EA, PD, and mobs that you can't put melee DDs on. If your only goal is to show up, good on you. That doesn't make it worthwhile.

[Razushu]

If you want the slot, you need to be worth it. BRD, WHM, COR, are all better doing party buffs than SMN. It's been said many times, the only thing SMN excels at right now is EA, PD, and mobs that you can't put melee DDs on. If your only goal is to show up, good on you. That doesn't make it worthwhile.

our Buffs aren't as strong as a BRDs but we can apply more than them. Never really partied with a Cor but from what I've read I'd confidently state we'd hold our own seeing as they can either DD/Buff or Buff/Support(please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as I'm only going on what I've heard/been told), where as we can perform all 3. WHM is gonna be there to main heal anyway so we're not competing with them for slots, but if we were(as a support not main heal) they bring barelements, strong pro/shell, less efficent haste more regen +10 sublte blow. SMN brings most of the bars(admittedly from /whm), more efficent haste, lower tier pro/shell and regen but a wider range of buffs.