Give summoners procs for abyssea

[Arcon]

Okay, and that's supposed to prove something?

Nah, just thought it was funny to see this picture appear on FFXIAH at the same time as this thread. I don't feel strongly either way.

[Zyeriis]

Summoner can't zerg well because it's locked down by a timer, and summoner can't proc except for staff red/blue, and it isn't really needed as a support role in abyssea either.

Well this is completely untrue. Spirits can proc yellow with spells and so can avatars. In fact, Summoner has every yellow proc you can get from whm and blm, minus the -aga versions.

Light (Light Spirit): Banish II, Banish III, Flash, Holy
Dark (Dark Spirit): Aspir, Drain, Bio II, Dispel
Water (Water Spirit): Water III, Water IV, Flood
Water (Leviathan): Water IV
Earth (Earth Spirit): Stone III, Stone IV, Quake
Earth (Titan): Stone IV
Fire (Fire Spirit): Fire III, Fire IV, Flare
Fire (Ifrit): Fire IV
Thunder (Thunder Spirit): Thunder III, Thunder IV, Burst
Thunder (Ramuh): Thunder IV
Ice (Ice Spirit): Blizzard III, Blizzard IV, Freeze
Ice (Shiva): Blizzard IV
Wind (Air Spirit): Aero III, Aero IV, Tornado
Wind (Garuda): Aero IV

The problem is that they aren't as useful here because of their timers. People complain that procing takes too long but only bring the minimum amount of people...that's just silly if you ask me. If you brought along more people, to help proc (like summoner) then you wouldn't have any room to complain (not that I like the boring proc system where most people will just be standing around anyway).

This is the first i've ever heard of the IV blood pacts procing. They are job abilities, not spells. Unless you've done it yourself and seen your name as the proc triggerer, then stop spouting nonsense like this.

http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/57917

Okay, and that's supposed to prove something? Everyone already knew Spirits could proc but they're so random that you can't proc reliably on anything.

Well, you decide what it was supposed to prove and to who. Apparently it wasn't "everyone". I don't deny that the other facet to summoner's "uselessness" in procing is the randomness of it though. I was pointing out that they don't need procs, as they have them already, even if they're poorly and rarely used.

Edit: I guess it could be interpretted that he was only refering to the avatar spells, in which case, I guess I should look for a screenshot.

[Saefinn]

Well this is completely untrue. Spirits can proc yellow with spells and so can avatars. In fact, Summoner has every yellow proc you can get from whm and blm, minus the -aga versions.

Light (Light Spirit): Banish II, Banish III, Flash, Holy
Dark (Dark Spirit): Aspir, Drain, Bio II, Dispel
Water (Water Spirit): Water III, Water IV, Flood
Water (Leviathan): Water IV
Earth (Earth Spirit): Stone III, Stone IV, Quake
Earth (Titan): Stone IV
Fire (Fire Spirit): Fire III, Fire IV, Flare
Fire (Ifrit): Fire IV
Thunder (Thunder Spirit): Thunder III, Thunder IV, Burst
Thunder (Ramuh): Thunder IV
Ice (Ice Spirit): Blizzard III, Blizzard IV, Freeze
Ice (Shiva): Blizzard IV
Wind (Air Spirit): Aero III, Aero IV, Tornado
Wind (Garuda): Aero IV

The problem is that they aren't as useful here because of their timers. People complain that procing takes too long but only bring the minimum amount of people...that's just silly if you ask me. If you brought along more people, to help proc (like summoner) then you wouldn't have any room to complain (not that I like the boring proc system where most people will just be standing around anyway).

For this reason, I only get invites (as SCH) as an addition to a BLM/BRD and not instead of. I can't proc ancient magic or any -gas, but tier III and IV on the other hand I can. I imagine it's the same case for SMN, or at least I have been invited alongside SMN before now. But as far as yellow goes, really and truly all you need is WHM, BLU/NIN and BLM/BRD to cover all bases. SCH, RDM and SMN work as an addition and it means at times, yes, you get turned down, though as you rightly say bringing the minimum is silly - somebody in an alliance earlier summed it up nicely, "the more people you have, the quicker it is to zerg so you can get on with other things" (paraphrased of course) So I don't see why somebody would turn down somebody if they've got room, but I suppose as far as seals go, people hate the competition, then again more people = more pops, quicker proc and quicker murderfication. So clue: Wind - BLM casts Tornado, RDM casts Aero III, SCH casts Aero IV. Now of course, I can see how a SMN is at a disadvantage as far as yellow is concerned with the AI of their spirits, but I'd argue, having a chance of a spirit proccing is better than having an empty space.

[Alaik]

It has created a metagame where your sole worth is determined by how many different triggers you have. EVERY job should be wanted for more than its ability to make more items drop.

Yeah that's never happened, EVER. Just ask Thieves from 2003-2011.

[Alhanelem]

Thieves can do more than make stuff drop. It's just not what people pay any attention to.

[Karbuncle]

Thieves can do more than make stuff drop. It's just not what people pay any attention to.

Actually, from 2003~2007/8 Thieves were only invites as TH whores. It was a big thing back then that the THF essentially "hit the mob and go away". Because they fed too much TP, Did Shit damage, Etc.

Especially on mobs like Fafnir where you couldn't really Sneak Attack without people freaking out. That couple with low dmg daggers and THFs bad str/atk, They weren't exactly "wanted" for their DD purposes, They were wanted for getting drops.

Its different now, But back then, THFs were basically Item-Whores. Maybe you didn't use Thieves that way, But it was generally accepted for a very long Times THF's were worthless outside of Treasure Hunter.

Edit: But i see the gist of what you're saying. You're saying abyssea triggeres are only useful for Drops. Which is true. They do other things (Terror, Amnesia, Silence), but are generally just used for Drops. In the same way however, in all fairness, back in the early Ages THFs could do things like Damage terribly, TA, etc, but were generally just used to get more drops :X

[Alhanelem]

Really, the only times where you care about the status effect are when you're fighting Rani or Shinryu.

[Karbuncle]

Really, the only times where you care about the status effect are when you're fighting Rani or Shinryu.

Yah, I can agree with that.

Maybe Raja for good measure.

[Alaik]

And the mindset is still present commonly. It's not a golden rule now though, at least.

And yeah Alha, it was extremely common for 2 outcomes for THF recently.

1.) (Most Common) THF is kept outside the alliance til the mob is at 5% or less HP, then brought in to tag it.

2.) (Less common, but not uncommon) Linkshell actually has a TH whore alt that had THF knife, ass hands and Trotters/Skadi's that was put in at 5% on auto attack and no one was allowed to come THF ever.

And I'm sure if they move us out of abyssea without doing anything to THF we'll be back in the same boat.

Hell, I can't even count the times where I offered as a joke to go as THF to different events and got asked, "Th4?" told them no, and didn't even get a response or got, "lol no th4 = no thks"

[azjazo]

What if... SMN could reset certain procs using the element of the proc in a bp, that way if you cant get a party that cant have all possible procs then you use the SMN to reset it manually and getting a new proc at random so your pt can have another go with the same mob to trigger certain proc.