Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[blowfin]

You think the majority of people who thought it was ok to AbyLeech, will waste their time going through that other content? I think not.

The augment system introduced for sky/abj. gear, and the new dynamis zones, have already done that in part.

[scaevola]

key whoring is mutualist: key whore use cruor but get xp, others fight/pull/buff/heal but doesn't use cruor

This is actually a big deal and isn't being mentioned enough. If you don't think spending 500 cruor on a key to pop open a gold/silver light red chest or a TE/1250 XP blue chest (which is pretty much necessary to do it reliably; I would argue it's necessary to open it at all for the top-tier red chests) is a big deal, you either haven't killed Shinryu and considered what opportunities 200k brews are capable of opening up for you, or are completely crazy.

Low-level chestpoppers contribute by taking a MAJOR cruor hit to make sure a necessary aspect of Abyssea XP gets taken care of. They bite the bullet on cruor gain so that the more powerful players who've long since capped XP/Merits but REALLY need the cruor don't have to. If you barred them from entry the entire institution of the Abyssea XP Alliance would last maybe another month before the big guns all just said "screw it, I'm soloing".

[Korpg]

Actually, right now in Asura I can name 4~5 people that I just met, who are new to the game or are returning from a very long long time ago. They don't do Abyssea, and they don't plan to until they hit 75. The only people who would be complaining, are those who haven't leeched all their jobs to Lv90. One of those players also told me her boyfriend quit playing BECAUSE of Abyssea, but she still plays the other content that you consider a waste of time. So YES, people are still playing and do other things in this game, even if they don't like Abyssea.

Also, what are you afraid of? You think the LvCap will be risen? SE will not even comment on this thread, because any comment will have a negative response from the community. The sole reason I created this thread, was to show SE that there is an imbalance in the design of Abyssea and to not make the same mistake over again when creating the Lv99 endgame content.

Abyssea was most likely a test design for the Dev's to see how the players react to it. They have already said there won't be anymore Abyssea zones, but the fact that people can skyrocket all the way to Lv90 (and 99 when it comes out) makes the "normal" way to exp obsolete.

And answer this: What is the point in having those other zones, with other content such as FoV, GoV and "normal" EXP Zones/Mobs, if Abyssea is truly the only worthwhile way to LvUp? It's basically the same comparison with equipment found inside Abyssea and equipment found inside Salvage/Nyzul/Sky/Sea/Einherjar/ZNM. All that gear is useless now because of Abyssea gear and now with Lv30 Cap, all those zones designed to LvUp 30~75 are useless because of Abyssea EXP gain.

Expansions/Addons shouldn't make everything else completely useless, there should be a reason to complete all that other content still. You think the majority of people who thought it was ok to AbyLeech, will waste their time going through that other content? I think not.


...

I don't know why I continue posting here...ugh...

A) 4-5 people who just started this game and said that they won't go to Abyssea until they are 75, you know why that is? It is because they can't get enough cruor to effectively key an actual alliance until they can actually participate in that said alliance. Once they get the cruor built up, they can effectively do that alliance some good. Until then, they have to either hope that one of their friends would let them leech their job to 75+ status, then work on skillups until 200~ level, then they can do some good for the exp party.

B) As for quiting because of Abyssea, that was their choice. They chose to not like abyssea, and they quit because of it. One example does not make a mob's mentality. Remember that!

C) As for what I'm afraid of, I don't care about raising the level cap, or leeches, or anything like that. You know why? Because why should I care what others do? That level 90 wiffing too much? So what? That's the leader's discretion to kick that person or let them stay. If that person is in a pickup group with me, so what? I can handle doing 75% of the damage, let them learn from me if they want to become as good as I am. Not my place to tell them how to play.

D) As for the test statement, I'm guessing that it is a success. 1 person saying no vs 1000 people saying yes sounds like a success to me.

E) To answer your question: What's stopping people from doing that? Because you limited your viewpoint to Abyssea only, doesn't mean that everyone else is the same. As for Salvage/Nyzul/Sky/Sea/Einherjar/ZNM, as yourself this: Why do people do that content? Is it because the content is fun, or is it for the gear? If people like it for the gear, then they would stop doing that content after they got their gear. If they like it because its fun, then they will continue doing so. Abyssea does not stop people from doing anything else. Stop blaming one part of the game from keeping others from playing other parts of the game.

F) Expansions and Addons don't make anything else useless. It makes the whole game fun, and the whole game isn't limited by any one content, like you have shown to believe.

G) I don't know why you continue posting here either. You are fighting a losing argument, and you assume that because people don't agree with you, they have nothing worthwhile to say and therefor not worth reading. Don't say you don't think that, because I got a couple of quote from you stating so!

[Akujima]

Wait, you are calling people here fanatical when you are the one defending a very unpopular and defeated viewpoint?

This idea is unpopular and defeated, according to who? I said you guys won, because you claim to be the majority. The majority you're in, is players still actively subscribing to FFXI, not those who've already quit the game or don't post/read these forums.

My example isn't extreme, its happening right now. Do a /sea all Kingnobody (better do that soon, I'm on 9 kills left) and you will see that my example is true.

I don't care if you kill 6 mobs at once to finish ToM quests. Blizzaga is designed to do that and that example is extreme and fanatical. Panthera is fanatical for saying that EXP scrolls are cheating or whatever.

As for putting Abyssea to 70-75 cap. Guess what. Astral Flow Burns will become very popular all over again. Paid PLs will become very popular again (which means that the PL will paid by the soloer to level with them, why would anybody pay to have somebody else leech off the exp?) FoV/GoV will be overcamped...again.

They've changed the re-spawn timer for old world mobs, they now spawn as quickly as Colibri do. FoV/GoV would not be over camped, as there are many different camps for different Level Syncs throughout the world. People would be able to accumulate Tabs/Gil along with EXP while grouping together.

Vana'diel would feel alive again.

What you are suggesting is not the main solution to your problem, its spreading the problem to another part of the game. And odds are, you will complain about that too!

What problem is that exactly? Not allowing people to leech? Over population, because you assume that the only things that exist outside Abyssea are Crabs and Colibri camps? (which is again, a fanatical/extreme view)

Since when was "Leeching" ever considered proper before Abyssea came out? If I recall, a player who went AFK for too long in a normal EXP PT, was booted and replaced with an active member. Now that leeching has become mainstream, everyone should just hop on the AbyLeech bandwagon and toss out their previous morals. You think that is a good excuse?

[scaevola]

They've changed the re-spawn timer for old world mobs, they now spawn as quickly as Colibri do. FoV/GoV would not be over camped, as there are many different camps for different Level Syncs throughout the world. People would be able to accumulate Tabs/Gil along with EXP while grouping together.

Vana'diel would feel alive again.

What would actually happen is fifteen guys floundering through the 60s would be humping one hellbat in Bostineaux, at which point one guy gets the bright idea to get everybody in an alliance, followed by him instantly having to switch from happy player to Internet Cop because half the people have gone AFK.

Any plan based around expecting people in a video game to stop finding ways to be People in a Video Game is doomed to failure, friend.

[BorkBorkBork]

Wait a tic I thought we won?? Keep Abumping

[Akujima]

G) I don't know why you continue posting here either. You are fighting a losing argument, and you assume that because people don't agree with you, they have nothing worthwhile to say and therefor not worth reading. Don't say you don't think that, because I got a couple of quote from you stating so!

The reason I'm fed up with posting here, is paragraphs like these. You just continually assert that this argument is invalid and put words in my mouth, saying that I secretly also think so. You came in here defending leeching and after almost 60 pages you're still defending it. If this battle was a lost cause and so unpopular as you claim it to be, then why has it gone on this long? (hint: try not to come back with silly stuff like "because you won't give up already!")

As said before: This is not the only thread that deals with this subject. If people thought this topic was insignificant, they wouldn't bother posting or replying to it and it wouldn't get as much feedback as it has.

[Kensagaku]

There is nothing wrong with being apart of the minority. Just because an angry mob attacks you, doesn't mean that we should give up and join them. Those amongst the minority are forced to learn their lessons the hard way, because the majority refuse to learn their lessons at all.

I know where these forums are heading. They're heading into a clash of who can withstand the longest belittling. Those who "win" are those who don't cave in. There wont be any equal compromise or collaborative efforts, about how to work towards creating a healthy balance. Anyone who speaks out about a topic they believe has merit, will just be consistently attacked and drown out, pushed to the side and ridiculed.

So there you go. You won. But not because you are right, but because you are the majority.

I see no reason to post further, in this thread or any other.

I would like to quote this post. Bolded for emphasis. Also only two days, didn't even make a week. Called it~

[Korpg]

This idea is unpopular and defeated, according to who? I said you guys won, because you claim to be the majority. The majority you're in, is players still actively subscribing to FFXI, not those who've already quit the game or don't post/read these forums.

It is unpopular because you are in the vast minority of extremes here. 2 people arguing vs how many now? 36 or so? Think that a 1 on 13 fight as a little onesided? I do. And I should think you do too. Also, see below for being defeated.

I don't care if you kill 6 mobs at once to finish ToM quests. Blizzaga is designed to do that and that example is extreme and fanatical. Panthera is fanatical for saying that EXP scrolls are cheating or whatever.

What about people who don't have access to AoE spells? Like, every job besides BLM? Is it fair to them that I can get my trial done in less than half the time that they do? Isn't that your whole argument? A small number of people getting to 90 faster than most other people? I made the connection, I'm sure a lot of people who has/will read this have made the connection. Why not you? Maybe you see the connection and don't want to admit it, because that would be detrimental to your whole argument.

They've changed the re-spawn timer for old world mobs, they now spawn as quickly as Colibri do. FoV/GoV would not be over camped, as there are many different camps for different Level Syncs throughout the world. People would be able to accumulate Tabs/Gil along with EXP while grouping together.

Vana'diel would feel alive again.

Having 20+ people fight less than 10 mobs in a zone/area, all of which are either soloist or duoist (mostly solo players, because we are talking about EP and DC mobs here) if you force people who don't want to level the "old" way to level. Its happening now! Look at Qufim Island. You will see more soloist than parties of 4+ people in the zone.

What problem is that exactly? Not allowing people to leech? Over population, because you assume that the only things that exist outside Abyssea are Crabs and Colibri camps? (which is again, a fanatical/extreme view)

Who said I said that? Those are the most popular camps, and usually those are the ones that get filled up first. Some oldschoolers might fight in Eastern Altep Desert at level 30, maybe Kazham at 25, but those are rare now, since its much faster to get exp in Qufim and Colibri camps.

Since when was "Leeching" ever considered proper before Abyssea came out? If I recall, a player who went AFK for too long in a normal EXP PT, was booted and replaced with an active member. Now that leeching has become mainstream, everyone should just hop on the AbyLeech bandwagon and toss out their previous morals. You think that is a good excuse?

You know, I was once against AFB, right when it became popular. Then I realized, its their game, why not let them play it the way they want to play it. Leeching was never accepted prior to Abyssea, and that is because one person going afk for extended periods of time would turn a 40k/hr camp to 15k/hr camp, maybe less if that afk person was the puller or healer. So those people get kicked. Now, since 4 people alone can kill a mob in less than 15 seconds, and there is no penalty for being in an alliance in Abyssea, but its a pain in the ash to have to keep looking into chests and opening up the ones you want, there are your keywhores, ready to do it for you in a flash.

As for the AFKers, since I'm not a leader in a pickup group, I can't kick them. But I do tell the leader all the time if there is an afker in the party. Its up to the leader to kick them out.


I wonder why, though, you feel like controlling everyone's enjoyment. By telling people "this is the right way, you have to do it this way or you are doing it wrong, you are cheating, you are undermining my entire experience and I want you to quit right now because you are a bad player" sounds a little like Hitler. Are you going to be all "Third Reich" on us and demand "Perfection of FFXI" and the "liberation of leechers everywhere"? Because thats what I'm getting from you.

[Korpg]

The reason I'm fed up with posting here, is paragraphs like these. You just continually assert that this argument is invalid and put words in my mouth, saying that I secretly also think so. You came in here defending leeching and after almost 60 pages you're still defending it. If this battle was a lost cause and so unpopular as you claim it to be, then why has it gone on this long? (hint: try not to come back with silly stuff like "because you won't give up already!")

As said before: This is not the only thread that deals with this subject. If people thought this topic was insignificant, they wouldn't bother posting or replying to it and it wouldn't get as much feedback as it has.

I'm not defending leeching. You are assuming too much again. If you didn't skim over my posts, you would see what I'm really attacking, which is your arrogance towards others in determining what is fun and what they should do.

Please read before you respond. Otherwise you will make yourself look like a fool (again).