Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[Akujima]

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

The fact of the matter is that people want to be deceived into believing that there is no objective truths. That absolutely everything is subjective to perception, is what they base their entire thesis on. It's the other end of the fanatical agenda, allowing them cling to whichever side that suits them best at that particular moment.

If you bring up a reason that has to do with morals, they will say things like "you're QQ'ing, because you just want people to LvUp your way!"

If you bring up a reason that has to do with logic, they will swing in the other direction saying "well we should have have the choice to play how we want"

Whatever situation arises, they will simply pick and choose whichever response best suits them.

Speaking to them about intangible things, such as emotion, feelings and accomplishments is futile. Rarely do people truly understand these things anymore, and far and few between will have the integrity to discuss these things in a mature manner.

They will continue to avoid confronting the real discussion, picking and pointing at your minor inconsistencies until it drives you mad. Like a child who repeats everything you say, just to get under your skin until you give up. That is how they win.

[Vivik]

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

Mature debates ended on this topic a while ago when the servers were down. Now it's just user 6489+ rehashing the same crap. It's not going to change, the majority of the player base does not want it to change, SE does not want it to change, and nobody cares if you do, move on...

[Panthera]

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

I think that's completely true of some, not completely true of some, and not at all of others.

Some write or think poorly, are rude. Some just repeat themselves without adding anything new. Some won't address valid points because they don't have an arguement. Some just want attention. Or all of the above. What particularly tickles me is that some that argue for leeching because it's not against TOS are trolling, which is against forum rules.

Some may only have a brief verbal mistep, but don't continue when asked to stop.

Some write quite well, have points with some validity. There was a good point about Exp scrolls, as just but one example.

I honestly think some may not actually care if it is cheating at all, with the recognition and agreeance that leeching is everything I assert it be; they just don't care. They get their levels at the consequence of their own conscience, because it is, afterall is said and done, only a game. They do what they know is wrong, and do it anyway because it benefits them; it does more good for them to cheat than play honestly, that they may feel a little bad about it is just a trade off.

To convince them is not the only goal. Some mind may be in fact be changed. Some silent, undecided may have gone one way or the other, or decided that both sides have points, so they are both right, and wrong. But just because you may or may not have convinced them does not mean you haven't won the arguement.

To the other side's credit, I think saying that there's no one with whom to have a mature discussion--as an absolute, is exaggerating, my friend. If you feel someone has something new and worthwhile to reply to, don't let trolls stop you from doing so. But just put trolls on the ignore list where they belong. I have.

picking and pointing at your minor inconsistencies until it drives you mad.

Such as? I think I've been very, very consistent, and I've added new arguements when possible. I'd like to think my arguement as evolved over time, becoming more specific and more clear, if I may say so.

[Sayelle]

Some write or think poorly, are rude. Some just repeat themselves without adding anything new. Some won't address valid points because they don't have an arguement. Some just want attention. Or all of the above. What particularly tickles me is that some that argue against leeching because it's not like it used to be are trolling, which is against forum rules.

Oh you. You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

[Panthera]

Oh you. You shouldn't talk about yourself like that.

"To the other side's credit, I think saying that there's no one with whom to have a mature discussion--as an absolute, is exaggerating, my friend. If you feel someone has something new and worthwhile to reply to, don't let trolls stop you from doing so. But just put trolls on the ignore list where they belong. I have."

~Panthera

[Romanova]

"To the other side's credit, I think saying that there's no one with whom to have a mature discussion--as an absolute, is exaggerating, my friend. If you feel someone has something new and worthwhile to reply to, don't let trolls stop you from doing so. But just put trolls on the ignore list where they belong. I have."

~Panthera

Completely hypocritical post as you keep repeating yourself into weird analogies to try to support your definition of cheating when you can't even come up with a single instance of cheating that is allowed by SE outside of your obsession over leechers.

Anyone you blocked is basically because you don't know how to refute them. I'm still waiting to see proof of your merits.

[Meyi]

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

Yes, it's impossible to have a mature debate when the other side is composed of complete morons.

Nobody appreciates bringing appropriate logic to a debate only to have the entire argument crapped on by a few selected words being picked by the other team and debated upon. It's rude. You need to learn how to debate better if you want anyone to take you seriously. You want mature responses to respond to? Look through all 43 pages of this thread. You'll find tons of them scattered everywhere. Consider maybe actually taking apart good responses rather than just sentence fragments.

[Korpg]

I know guys, sorry for bring up some old stuff. But I GOT to reply to some of it. Please forgive me for getting to this thread so late in the topic.

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

Mature as in what? Ignoring people with valid, sound opinions and replying/referring to those who are obviously trying to get you to respond in a way that undermines your entire argument? Because they have undermined your argument in previous pages, doesn't mean that everyone is not being "mature".

Besides, what does maturity mean to you? Agreeing with you? Because that is the only "definition" I have seen of anyone being "mature" in your mind.