Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

[hiko]

you want that getting a job to 75 is an accomplishment that you can be proud of? ask SE team to remove all "make getting lvl75 easy" patch:
- double xp rate
- lvl sync
- higher chain lenght
- lower XP needed per lvl

[Akujima]

you want that getting a job to 75 is an accomplishment that you can be proud of? ask SE team to remove all "make getting lvl75 easy" patch:
- double xp rate
- lvl sync
- higher chain lenght
- lower XP needed per lvl

You can continue to imply that I'm some kind of extremist. But you are surely wrong.

[Greatguardian]

you want that getting a job to 75 is an accomplishment that you can be proud of? ask SE team to remove all "make getting lvl75 easy" patch:
- double xp rate
- lvl sync
- higher chain lenght
- lower XP needed per lvl

More like "Remove everything from ToAU onwards." The EXP system has been getting easier by leaps and bounds since then, with the introduction of Colibri, EXP rings, and Sanction EXP bonuses. It may not be Akujima's point (whatever point of his remains that hasn't been torn to shreds 9,001 times in all of these threads about the Abyssea cap), but it is surely Panthera's.

If you want EXP to be an accomplishment, remove everything that makes it easy. Unfortunately, most people don't really give a crap about EXP being an accomplishment.

Unfortunately for some of you, you are simply not used to the fact that any random person out there in the game needs to be considered a completely incompetent moron with the brain matter of a potato until they are proven otherwise. Those of us who have been Endgame-tier players for a long time already know this, so Abyssea leeching creating useless level 90s with no spells or skills or knowledge of the game is Absolutely. Nothing. New. These 'deceptive, cheating leeches' are no more deceptive to us than Mages who refuse to cast Haste, Players who don't swap gear, Samurai who don't have Polearm capped, DDs who TP in 0-10% Haste, and so on and so forth. In fact the latter are worse, because THEY ACTUALLY CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY DO NOT AND ARE ABSOLUTELY 110% WORTHLESS IN A GROUP SITUATION.

[Pharaun]

All I've seen in this thread is new point, after new point, after new point that has just been shut-down by people with established, defined reasons about why raising the LvCap is a good idea. Even going so far as to call us out as "Fanatical Moralists" implying that we're somehow imposing unbearable punishment to people.

I question whether these people are having fun with their newly leeched Lv90 jobs, and not complaining elsewhere about how long it takes to get things done, and how annoying it is for such and such to take such and such amount of time. It almost seems like they're measuring "time factor" with "fun factor", saying that the least amount of time spent doing something will also be the most satisfying.

Lol, I'm not sure which thread you're reading, but it obviously isn't this one. You haven't brought up a single point that hasn't already been responded to and completely disproved either in this thread or the many other abyssea threads.

As for you assertion that we aren't even having fun with our leeched jobs, I can't speak for the others but I feel confident that they will agree with my sentiments. I'm having more fun because I"m actually taking part in the rewarding content of the game and not the mindless grind of exping. Grinding levels was never fun in and of itself, it could be made tolerable if you had a decent group of friends that you leveled with, but again it was never a fun part of this game.

As for Panthera and his assertion that hitting max level was an accomplishment, it hasn't been an accomplishment to have a max level character since ToAU at the latest if not earlier. The thing that you don't seem to understand is that by their very nature things that were once an accomplishment in an MMO become easier to achieve over time and thus no longer become an accomplishment worth noting. With the introduction of better gear and abilities and better understanding of game mechanics what used to be difficult for ever the elite level players eventually will become easy enough that even the most casual of casuals will be able to accomplish it.

[Romanova]

Correct. Accomplishments don't have to be experience points, but experience points DO have to be accomplishments, or why bother? If they don't matter, remove them. Do them, or don't do them, but just don't cheat. Get a Relic, but don't RMT it. Get a Lu Shang's or Ebisu's, but don't fishbot it, etc.

rmt = against TOS

fish botting = against TOS

You can't even come up with a "cheating" that's actually allowed by SE. Face it, you want this to be against SE, but as ravenmore said you can do this outside abyssea now too, it's growing, not getting taken away.

[Khiinroye]

In the higher tier voidwatch, DD tanks tend to die if the NM so much as sneezes at them. Plds are perfectly capable of taking what the mobs are dishing out, except the weakness inducing tp moves that NOBODY can tank. In order to maximize drops, you need to do many, many triggers, so survivability of the tank matters, rather than zerging. The pld in Tybud's example, who leveled the old way and had a relic and wanted people to believe that he knew what he was doing as a tank would be totally unable to tank these mobs, while a capable pld could. THE PALADIN IN THE EXAMPLE WAS INEPT AT HIS JOB DESPITE LEVELING THE OLD WAY AND EVEN HAVING THE BEST GEAR AND RELICS. He was inept in the old days when people used pld, and he is still inept now. Understanding the meaning of the example would have you believe that a competent, freshly levelled pld with the basic pld tanking gear would do a better job than him. That was the whole point of the example, and it was IGNORED based on "pld is broken". The job isn't broken; the need for a tank just wasn't there, so it wasn't used. One does not take the make an army of ultralisks when performing a zerg rush.

My example of how a capable, previously melee-only person could pick up a mage job and do perfectly fine with it was IGNORED.

The fact that truly new players will need to skill their main class skills (except for thf and whm) to get past 70 was IGNORED.

All I've seen in this thread is new point, after new point, after new point that has just been shut-down by people with established, defined reasons about why raising the LvCap is a good idea.

Since you have said that these points have been addressed, I guess we can assume that you have no real response to them and have therefore conceded them.

Do them, or don't do them, but just don't cheat.

My definition of cheating in terms of leveling is using third party programs to do your levelling for you (people do use curebots, so this is actually there), or altering your character data to fix your level at whatever you want it to be. Buying accounts is cheating. Keying boxes does not meet this definition, therefore it is not cheating.

Using third party programs to choose what fish you hooked and instantly set its hp to 0 is cheating. Being able to see VNMs while they're still in their unaggrod state is cheating. RMT is cheating.

See, I can define terms to my benefit, too, and mine is closer to SE's definition.

I leveled my rng from 20 to 56 via campaign ops and xp scrolls. Did I cheat by doing that? I sure didn't go out and get oldschool xp parties.

As to the RPG element; Sure, xp is a key factor in all of them. But when you have one character that you want to use to do something different, do you take him through all the areas in the game that you've been through and catch him up like that? No, you slap him in the party with your top characters, go to the spot in the game where the monsters give a ton of xp, and use your strong characters to tear through them like paper and skyrocket your weak character's levels. Some RPGs even level your characters while they're out of party (e.g. Chrono Trigger). Being able to use strong characters to level weak characters has always been a part of many games in the genre, even in SE games. If you want to look at other MMOs, WoW has twinking of new characters, and apparently death knights start at lv 55.

So then the correct assumption would be to say that the sooner we can Lv all 20 jobs to Lv99, the sooner we can all have maxed out gear/equipment and the sooner we've depleted FFXI of all its resources and content, then and ONLY then, will we be happy... Right?

Alternately, we can not level any new jobs because it takes so long the old way and people don't want to sit through that for the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th time. Then we'll max gear and equipment for our jobs even faster, and all quit sooner.

I am no more imposing my will onto others such that levels matter than they are imposing theirs on me by taking that value away. Now, what have you to say to that, hmmm?

They are not taking the value away from you. You can still feel that you earned your levels, while they did not; therefore, you can believe that your levels are an accomplishment due to how you achieved them, while their levels are not an achievement because they sped through them in abyssea. It does not have to be an all-or-nothing situation.

[TybudX]

@zyeris
This is not a thread about PLD's capabilities as a tank.

Get it?

You are attacking the example I used to prove a point, not the point itself. Your attack is off topic; it has no bearing on what this thread is about: raising the level cap for Abyssea - there is a thread for PLD tanking already, take your comments there.

And so that you will be more informed when you do post in that thread, I will explain again why my example is valid to the point I was making. PLD tanks have immense survivability. It is not at all unreasonable to use a PLD tank if winning is your only priority; in fact it is in your best interest since they are so sturdy. What makes PLD a poor choice is that winning quickly increases drop rates by allowing you to fight more often. It also gives support characters a smaller window in which to use their resources, which allows for less survivable DDs to effectively hold hate on a mob and survive.

None of that makes PLD a bad tank, it just means you either need a) more people involved to increase kill spead, or b) kill slower, which sometimes gives the mob more opportunities to use highly damaging effects. In the first case your drop rate is effectively lowered due to needing to provide more items for more people. In the second case the mob isn't always capable of doing anything dangerous to a PLD anyways, so it doesn't always matter.

[Akujima]

More like "Remove everything from ToAU onwards." The EXP system has been getting easier by leaps and bounds since then, with the introduction of Colibri, EXP rings, and Sanction EXP bonuses. It may not be Akujima's point (whatever point of his remains that hasn't been torn to shreds 9,001 times in all of these threads about the Abyssea cap), but it is surely Panthera's.

If you want EXP to be an accomplishment, remove everything that makes it easy. Unfortunately, most people don't really give a crap about EXP being an accomplishment.

Unfortunately for some of you, you are simply not used to the fact that any random person out there in the game needs to be considered a completely incompetent moron with the brain matter of a potato until they are proven otherwise. Those of us who have been Endgame-tier players for a long time already know this, so Abyssea leeching creating useless level 90s with no spells or skills or knowledge of the game is Absolutely. Nothing. New. These 'deceptive, cheating leeches' are no more deceptive to us than Mages who refuse to cast Haste, Players who don't swap gear, Samurai who don't have Polearm capped, DDs who TP in 0-10% Haste, and so on and so forth. In fact the latter are worse, because THEY ACTUALLY CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY DO NOT AND ARE ABSOLUTELY 110% WORTHLESS IN A GROUP SITUATION.

I'm done with this thread and its lowsy implications that Myself, Panthera and other like minded people are some kind of radical extremist group. Accusing us of trying to force everyone to go back to when it took 2 days to find a PT and 1 week to get a few Lv's.

So let me set the record straight:

None of us said to remove FoV.
None of us said to remove GoV.
None of us said to remove EXP rings.
None of us disagreed with the new EXP rate per mob.
None of us disagreed with Colibri camps, SMN Burn, BLM burn or anything outside Abyssea

All we are asking for is some balance.

FFXI in the past took ridiculous amounts of time to LvUp, but now the game has taken a '180' in the other direction. Now it's a bit TOO easy to cap your level. If you can't grasp the idea of a healthy balance, then maybe stepping out of your perception of absolutism would do you some good.

Players lack of competence has nothing to do with balance in game design.

Bad players are bad players. They have nothing to do with how ridiculously fast it is to level up inside Abyssea. Just because you proclaim yourself to be a "good, smart player" is no excuse to be spoon fed a Lv90 character. You should have to do the work, just like everyone else. Trying to justify the circumvention of how game genre's are meant to stay true to their style, just because you are "good" and other players that "suck" are the actual problem, is a VERY poor excuse. This attitude towards incompetence amongst a portion of the player base is very biased to an "elitist" point of view, but I'm not surprised to see such a cookie-cutter post. A post that seeks to stray away from the real issue and blame it on someone else.

GG. I challenge you to make a thread that is creative, innovative, or addresses issues that other like minded players can agree with. If you can make just one thread that can get some kind intelligent feedback... then, and only then, will I give you credit for your enormous post-count.

[Leonlionheart]

GG. I challenge you to make a thread that is creative, innovative, or addresses issues that other like minded players can agree with. If you can make just one thread that can get some kind intelligent feedback... then, and only then, will I give you credit for your enormous post-count.

I wish you would stop trying to show off this thread as an accomplishment; it's not creative. It's a rehashed point that's been over used and over discussed to absolutely no avail- because every one has an opinion and is stupid and stubborn about it. It's gotten this far because you, and many people who see differently from you, WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR MIND. If you want to make ANOTHER long useless thread, go post about how BST got jipped from invincible pets. Go post about how relics are being undermined by empyreans. Pick any other FFXI hot topic and just paste it onto a thread and you'll get what you think is some kind of accomplishment.

On Topic: I agree with you actually, Abyssea leeching subtracts from the game 'experience.' Do I think they should take it away? No, because that part of the game 'experience' sucked.

[Meyi]

I'm done with this thread and its lowsy implications that Myself, Panthera and other like minded people are some kind of radical extremist group. Accusing us of trying to force everyone to go back to when it took 2 days to find a PT and 1 week to get a few Lv's.

That's because you are.

All we are asking for is some balance.

No, you're asking to forbid low level players from entering Abyssea and earning fast exp. To you, the slow grind is necessary. A balance would be increasing the outside world exp to a level that makes everyone happy and willing to go back.

If you can't grasp the idea of a healthy balance, then maybe stepping out of your perception of absolutism would do you some good.

Yes, it would be wise for you to listen to your own words of wisdom.

Bad players are bad players. They have nothing to do with how ridiculously fast it is to level up inside Abyssea.

What's this? Weren't you the one claiming that bad players (a.k.a. leeches) were because they failed to take long enough to level up and therefore didn't know how to play? Hmm...

Just because you proclaim yourself to be a "good, smart player" is no excuse to be spoon fed a Lv90 character. You should have to do the work, just like everyone else.

We already did. It's called leveling jobs to 75 for the last 8 years. Playing the game for the last 8 years.

Trying to justify the circumvention of how game genre's are meant to stay true to their style, just because you are "good" and other players that "suck" are the actual problem, is a VERY poor excuse. This attitude towards incompetence amongst a portion of the player base is very biased to an "elitist" point of view, but I'm not surprised to see such a cookie-cutter post. A post that seeks to stray away from the real issue and blame it on someone else.

GG. I challenge you to make a thread that is creative, innovative, or addresses issues that other like minded players can agree with. If you can make just one thread that can get some kind intelligent feedback... then, and only then, will I give you credit for your enormous post-count.

1. It's completely ridiculous to think that anyone with intelligence would strive for a large post count merely for the sake of having a large post count. GreatGuardian is truly intelligent and has a sophisticated way of getting his point across. He's not the one with a problem. He's not the one creating threads. It's your responsibility to present your call for change, not ours.