100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....

Do you think you're a good person with so much hatred in your heart for a certain group of people? Shameful.....just shameful....

Bad timing for this thread too, with all the PUPs totally ticked off and all. It's like kicking us while we're down.

I'm seeing frustration more than anger. With Abyssea being a time-sensitive environment, bumping into someone basically tickling a mob to death is not a good thing, be it a pet job, some alliance zombie'ing, or anything that can attack from range using pinning. As is, other invlunerabilities like Avatars or BRD's bugged carols have been fixed, and actual player damage reduction is capped outside of limited use meds or 2 hours. As much as these jobs may be reveling in the perks of that power, it is an exploit. And while I can empathize with those who had worked to build their -PDT sets for this purpose, this is one of those "Too good to be true!" things.

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

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Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%. And while I'm not a BST 90 with 100% PDT pet nor will I be anytime soon if ever, I also have any of a dozen jobs welcomed in Abyssea. I really do not shed a tear for anyone hurt emotionally by this. Go BST. You damn well deserve it.

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Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%.

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If I could get -100% Physical damage taken on PLD I would be all over it and would make pld amazingly broken. It's not that hard to get either, an Atma and some magian weapons, -50% is ok but -100% is completely silly.

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Originally Posted by Vold

Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%. And while I'm not a BST 90 with 100% PDT pet nor will I be anytime soon if ever, I also have any of a dozen jobs welcomed in Abyssea. I really do not shed a tear for anyone hurt emotionally by this. Go BST. You damn well deserve it.

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I tend to agree with this sentiment. BST, PUP and, to some degree, SMN, are rarely welcomed to Abyssea except to solo (and that's just welcoming themselves), never to parties that require procs, and so people who enjoy playing them and not, say, BLM, WHM, BLU, BRD, WAR, MNK or NIN, should rightly be able to get something on them (and so should other jobs that commonly get looked over). The fact that jobs regularly invited to proc groups have to wait for some poor BST, SMN or any other rarely invited job to finish slowly killing a monster are not high on my sympathy list; they already get to blaze through killing and getting their stuff when the unfortunate job isn't there, and that's the VAST majority of the time (not to mention that they can proc and actually get stuff at a reasonable speed), and they can actually come on a job they LIKE to play.

If you want the BST to get its butt out of your way, maybe you should convince SE to encourage people to actually invite it so people who enjoy playing BST can actually do so and not have to deal with both being rejected and the demands that it cease doing the only things it actually can. That way EVERYONE can have some fun and get stuff instead of just people who like a few select jobs.

100% damage reduction makes absolutely no sense. That's a PLD's 2hr, which (duh) you can only use every two hours. For a 30 second duration. Having BST and PUP fulltime it is just silly. 80% I can understand, and in fact I believe that should be the cap (for players too). And yes, as was pointed out, Abyssea is a time-sensitive area, and even if it wasn't, watching a guy tickle a mob down for 90min and more when you wanted to do that is not just generally disappointing, but also against the spirit of Abyssea, which is to make content easily accessible to everyone. People complained about 3min respawn timer for ???s, but having to postpone a NM because someone is AFKing it to death for longer than you can even stay in the zone? It's like soloing Genbu in 5 hours. While it's possible, and kudos to you if you have that much patience, it obstructs content for everyone else. It's simply unfair.

I was watching an alliance kill Raja the other day and the PLD and NIN in the party died. Yet, Raja wasn't chasing the mages down. Want to know why? Lucky Lulush was tanking him. Guess who continued to tank him with absolutely no problems whatsoever the entirety of the rest of the fight: a white rabbit named Lucky Lulush. It was hilariously sad. Why no one has realized how broken this is, and exploited it to it's fullest extent is beyond me. Maybe if people start exploiting it, SE will step up and do something.

I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

100% damage reduction makes absolutely no sense. That's a PLD's 2hr, which (duh) you can only use every two hours. For a 30 second duration. Having BST and PUP fulltime it is just silly. 80% I can understand, and in fact I believe that should be the cap (for players too). And yes, as was pointed out, Abyssea is a time-sensitive area, and even if it wasn't, watching a guy tickle a mob down for 90min and more when you wanted to do that is not just generally disappointing, but also against the spirit of Abyssea, which is to make content easily accessible to everyone. People complained about 3min respawn timer for ???s, but having to postpone a NM because someone is AFKing it to death for longer than you can even stay in the zone? It's like soloing Genbu in 5 hours. While it's possible, and kudos to you if you have that much patience, it obstructs content for everyone else. It's simply unfair.

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It's hardly any more or less unfair than wanting to play your BST and being told that you're worthless for the content and/or to come on another job that you don't like to be "productive" for proccing. If your response to that is "you could level and play another job and suck it up," well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it. Taking one of the only bones thrown at the BST away would be VASTLY more unfair to them then having to wait is to you.

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it.

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Actually I think there should be only one job (that is essentially all current jobs rolled into one). And that we should all be our own Tanks, Healers and Melee.

We should all have -100% PDT and -100% MDT, as well as infinite STR, DEX, VIT, etc.

There should also be only 1 massive zone, and we should be able to teleport to a pinpointed location at will. (take note SE, I really want this... I'm tired of having to use warp scrolls and home points) Why? Because walking is too slow and I'm too lazy to press the W button on my keyboard to go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Actually I think there should be only one job (that is essentially all current jobs rolled into one). And that we should all be our own Tanks, Healers and Melee.

We should all have -100% PDT and -100% MDT, as well as infinite STR, DEX, VIT, etc.

There should also be only 1 massive zone, and we should be able to teleport to a pinpointed location at will. Why? Because walking is too slow and I'm too lazy to press the W button on my keyboard to go anywhere.

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Oh, totally, because spending 60+ minutes to solo something with an almost 0 rate of return is the same thing as just killing everything. I mean, think of what you could do if you were totally invincible and did 1 point of damage to a monster with 200,000,000 hit points every 10 seconds. You should be the first to have that ability available to you.

There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed unless they're compensated with some sort of *gasp* useful abilities that other people actually value!

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Originally Posted by Ilax

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....

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I could agree that 100% is to much, but you come off as crying that you had to wait because someone else had the NM. Terming it an exploit just because another job can do something you can't. It is an obviously allowed game mechanic and is a pain to max out requiring some really specialized gear. It isn't like every pet job is getting fat loot solo - need proc's. That is already a strong deterrent.

And my personal opinion? All of us should be able to hit 80% if take the time and effort to get the proper gear to go with those atmas that only work in abyssea anyway where you can just primeval brew anything anyway.


Minor edit:

And everyone is acting like each and every NM only does physical damage. News for you, you can't afk and you still will have to heal that pet. I could solo ahmuluk on bst. I wouldn't want to because I can't proc solo, but I could. Its still costing me some pet food and I have to pay attention. And if pdt builds got nerfed? I'd just be using more food and/or more than one jug. And taking just as long to kill it.

Pets don't have utsusemi. Pets can't pop a fanatics drink. Pets can't be cure bombed of na'd instead requiring the use of a long recast timer ability instead of spell. Pets are not frakkin unkillable even with -100% pdt though I am in favor of reducing it to -66~80%. as well as measures to prevent idiots from holding (which changing -pdt will not effect).

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed unless they're compensated with some sort of *gasp* useful abilities that other people actually value!

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Not my fault SE decided to make every job vague and non-descriptive when Abyssea came out.

Seems their answer though is to make every job a super-hero that can do everything themselves. No wonder so many people give so little value towards other jobs eh?

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There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed.

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So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

I'm going to direct my response to this page of the debate back to what I posted on the first page.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

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On the balance, absolutely. I'd certainly prefer that than them losing the damage reduction and being forced to do things on other jobs they may not have or don't like playing. If they want to waste 60 minutes killing something with a low drop rate due to having no procs and whatnot, more power to them. With the very small number of people who actually do it and the only bother being the minor inconvenience to other players having to wait if they happen to come across the few monsters they solo this way, which is nothing compared to the inconvenience of them having to take the same amount of time and getting even less in return, yeah. Absolutely.

The effect on the game is pretty much negligible, and given that people with brew can already essentially be invincible, the arguments against it are simply weak.

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

It's hardly any more or less unfair than wanting to play your BST and being told that you're worthless for the content and/or to come on another job that you don't like to be "productive" for proccing. If your response to that is "you could level and play another job and suck it up," well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it. Taking one of the only bones thrown at the BST away would be VASTLY more unfair to them then having to wait is to you.

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Having a pet hit 80% PDT (which is quite easy to attain), is still an incredibly good tank, better than most player characters could be. Even if a perfectly geared and fully def-buffed PLD were to eat a 1k base damage hit to the face, it would be hit for maybe 400 damage. A pet would take 200 (twice as good), with a PDT set that isn't any challenge to attain. Some may argue even that is broken, but I wouldn't mind it. All I'm saying is 100% PDT makes no sense whatsoever.

Thanks for all reply guys, tbh i don't care if BST have -100% PDT, then SE should just give them 20,000,000 attack bonus while at it, so they can kill they stupid NM in 1 sec and not blocking the NM for 90 min...

For the part where you say BST are refused in LS bc they can't trigger, that just plain bullshit, my friend is often on BST, we use him to tank mob, but you know what? We trick attack him and his pet hold and we trigger and we kill fast, that how the job should be play to not piss off entire community, but yet there always some lame douch that are ready to play on they own and screw everyone on they way careless if it take 90 min.

Why you think ppl hate the job so much? 7yr ago it was a problem, and guess what? Same deal today, the job isnt a problem, is the way ppl play it....

Sorry world have plenty of douch, PDT -100% no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Having a pet hit 80% PDT (which is quite easy to attain), is still an incredibly good tank, better than most player characters could be. Even if a perfectly geared and fully def-buffed PLD were to eat a 1k base damage hit to the face, it would be hit for maybe 400 damage. A pet would take 200 (twice as good), with a PDT set that isn't any challenge to attain. Some may argue even that is broken, but I wouldn't mind it. All I'm saying is 100% PDT makes no sense whatsoever.

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I certainly think there are more elegant solutions to giving some jobs advantages where they currently lack, though I think it would make less sense if it also didn't essentially make the BST hit like a cotton ball. Getting 100% damage reduction isn't too badly balanced given the work one has to put into getting it, the return on the investment (low) and the gigantic waste of time it is to solo something using it, especially considering how jobs that DON'T have it, with some exceptions (I'm looking at you, RNG and PLD), can get gear faster and wouldn't actually trade their proccing, stuff-getting status to get 100% PDT, slug-speed killing and poor returns anyway.

Love how that aku is acting like "every job vague and non-descriptive" is something that only started with abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Thanks for all reply guys, tbh i don't care if BST have -100% PDT, then SE should just give them 20,000,000 attack bonus while at it, so they can kill they stupid NM in 1 sec and not blocking the NM for 90 min...

For the part where you say BST are refused in LS bc they can't trigger, that just plain bullshit, my friend is often on BST, we use him to tank mob, but you know what? We trick attack him and his pet hold and we trigger and we kill fast, that how the job should be play to not piss off entire community, but yet there always some lame douch that are ready to play on they own and screw everyone on they way careless if it take 90 min.

Why you think ppl hate the job so much? 7yr ago it was a problem, and guess what? Same deal today, the job isnt a problem, is the way ppl play it....

Sorry world have plenty of douch, PDT -100% no thanks.

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Wouldn't it be nice if most LSs and parties let their BSTs and PUPs come to do damage and be useful? Well, it's too bad that they don't, and reasonable people are in short supply. Instead of bringing a BST like you might and doing something useful, most groups will just bring another job that can proc (or just go without the BST replacement) and kill fast anyway, with one less person to whom they have to distribute items.

If they didn't, the BSTs and other jobs wouldn't bother with the slow killing and crappy returns.

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

Wouldn't it be nice if most LSs and parties let their BSTs and PUPs come to do damage and be useful? Well, it's too bad that they don't, and reasonable people are in short supply. Instead of bringing a BST like you might and doing something useful, most groups will just bring another job that can proc (or just go without the BST replacement) and kill fast anyway, with one less person to whom they have to distribute items.

If they didn't, the BSTs and other jobs wouldn't bother with the slow killing and crappy returns.

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Well you know where all this is going to end, everyone will hate BST job more then ever now, and that wont help them at all to be accepted in any LS/Event, is going to be same as it was 7yr ago, BST no thanks go solo.

Is what you think the best for the job? If so then be it, trust me from now i will never accept a BST in any of my exp PT, nor in my ls. (GO SOLO)

You think i am the only one that will end with such of reaction? Just wait to see a BST making your LS waste 60~90 min and have to refill stone bc of one of these, and tell me about the feeling.

Can do that BS full PDT in 2 week, so go figure, i am almost tempted to go do that PDT setup and go BST/WHM and Dia kill the mob in front of your ls and see how you would like it. (Of course after my friend fell cleave me 2600 min)

This really need to be fix...

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

I certainly think there are more elegant solutions to giving some jobs advantages where they currently lack, though I think it would make less sense if it also didn't essentially make the BST hit like a cotton ball. Getting 100% damage reduction isn't too badly balanced given the work one has to put into getting it, the return on the investment (low) and the gigantic waste of time it is to solo something using it, especially considering how jobs that DON'T have it, with some exceptions (I'm looking at you, RNG and PLD), can get gear faster and wouldn't actually trade their proccing, stuff-getting status to get 100% PDT anyway, slug-speed killing and poor returns anyway.

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This really only happens if they are using all their atmas on regen/pdt and none on doing damage. In those cases when they take that long, I'm in favor of the mob getting PO'd at the delay and bypassing -pdt as part of its raging *cough* Raja example *cough*.

While we're talking about damage...If you go the opposite way and go full on damage instead of pdt some pets will put out some simply ridiculous damage.

No 7 years ago people would just steal what ever NM the bst was soloing. If you didn't want to wait in line for 5 to 8 hours for 18 other people to pop your O.hat mob you got 2 to 3 bst to come help you. On top of all that they were denied a party slot for the longest time cause people thought the -exp for wild pets included the rest of the party. Seeing how no abyssea mobs can be charmed let them have it not like you can't go do other NMs farm KIs or omg farm TEs and stay in the zone forever. I can stay in there as long as I want soloing on blu so if you got 2 to 6 other people can't see why you couldn't do the same.

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Originally Posted by Seriha

I'm seeing frustration more than anger. With Abyssea being a time-sensitive environment, bumping into someone basically tickling a mob to death is not a good thing, be it a pet job, some alliance zombie'ing, or anything that can attack from range using pinning. As is, other invlunerabilities like Avatars or BRD's bugged carols have been fixed, and actual player damage reduction is capped outside of limited use meds or 2 hours. As much as these jobs may be reveling in the perks of that power, it is an exploit. And while I can empathize with those who had worked to build their -PDT sets for this purpose, this is one of those "Too good to be true!" things.

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What do they call it? Boring the mob to death? :)

I deleted that post because it wasn't funny enough.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Well you know where all this is going to end, everyone will hate BST job more then ever now, and that wont help them at all to be accepted in any LS/Event, is going to be same as it was 7yr ago, BST no thanks go solo.

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I guess enough people might be that petty, but meh. I don't think it happens enough for the entire community, or even a large part of it, to feel that way. I think, rather, that it's really just a minor nuisance being blown way out of proportion.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

This really only happens if they are using all their atmas on regen/pdt and none on doing damage. In those cases when they take that long, I'm in favor of the mob getting PO'd at the delay and bypassing -pdt as part of its raging *cough* Raja example *cough*.

While we're talking about damage...If you go the opposite way and go full on damage instead of pdt some pets will put out some simply ridiculous damage.

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And that they do! It's too bad people aren't inviting for damage of late :(

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er

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Originally Posted by Akujima

People are going to have to further accept, that they can't be supreme and almighty. "Solo" is escaping inevitability: There will always be other people, and you're going to have to interact with them. -100% PDT or -100% MDT or -100% whatever... It makes no difference.

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Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.

What game were you playing Aku. Blm was one of the best solo jobs. For alot of mission didn't even need a tank. Ever seen what 1O+ blms could do to DM, word i'm think best suit it would insta win.

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.

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SHHH you'll ruin the anti solo play straw man


I'm just waiting to laugh at arguments against solos that use kiting instead of pets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

I guess enough people might be that petty, but meh. I don't think it happens enough for the entire community, or even a large part of it, to feel that way. I think, rather, that it's really just a minor nuisance being blown way out of proportion.

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idk, my friend talking to do it, and so is probably 10,000 player after reading this post....

Invincible in abyssea, hey who not interest in this? Seriously, i can already see all LS with they BST and 100% PDT otw right now.


Go go new setup: BST, BLM/BRD, BLU, WAR/RDM FTW. (can self cleave, trigger everything, and tank everything)

{Broken game do you need it?}

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er

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It's apparently much more important for people to rage about their minor inconveniences than it is be nice to people (by, say offering an invite and alliance lead/quartermaster). Though I bet someone argues that the rare job that actually solos with -100% PDT will just not accept the invite and be a jerk. Because the 3 BSTs of the 58 online at the time are all going to always say no, no matter what ;)

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Originally Posted by Cyranda

Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.

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Look. Just take FFXI offline, and we can "tweet" to eachother in game about what we're doing.

You know how many problems that would solve? No competition, No having to "wait" for someone to finish killing their NM, No having to compete for what's being dropped. Solves alot of the major problems that many people are having, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

idk, my friend talking to do it, and so is probably 10,000 player after reading this post....

Invincible in abyssea, hey who not interest in this? Seriously, i can already see all LS with they BST and 100% PDT otw right now.


Go go new setup: BST, BLM/BRD, BLU, WAR/RDM FTW. (can self cleave, trigger everything, and tank everything)

{Broken game do you need it?}

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They've been able to do it for quite a long time now, and it hasn't caught on much at all. I really don't think it's going to spread like wildfire if it hasn't already.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

What game were you playing Aku. Blm was one of the best solo jobs. For alot of mission didn't even need a tank. Ever seen what 1O+ blms could do to DM, word i'm think best suit it would insta win.

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10+ BLM = Solo, how?

And...

Actually "Instant Win" is 2 words. Oh, sorry I'm just pointing out your little mistake. Hope you're not upset.

Np shoulda seen that and put solo in a differnt paragraph shouldn't assume that you had any idea how good blm was at soloing. I mean how esle did they get 75. The 10+blms was to show that you didn't need a tank or pulling hate was a bad thing only crappy blms got killed in a couple of hits. The game used to be throw as any blms at a mob that you could find. Just to add little more blm/rdm got a good bit of survival tools.