20 hour cooldown on Sortie is too low

By allowing people to enter every day, you're creating a vehicle for burnout since it's pretty repetitive.

I think daily access works on some content like Ody, but I don't think it works too well on Sortie.

Maybe allow the key item to overcharge, so if you wait 40 hours you get much more Gali rewarded. If players want to do it daily they can, but you're dis-incentivizing it which lessens burnout and lowers congestion.

This so much feels like a troll. People can govern their own behavior. One hour a day doing Sortie probably won't burn most people out. If it does burn out a few, they can take a break and NOT do Sortie. We don't need the game punishing players because some subset of players push themselves too hard.

Everything is a vehicle for burnout. You can spend 10 hours a day farming for job points or exemplar points. You can spend 6 hours a week farming cards in Omen. You can spend all day in Dynamis farming currency for a relic, or in Salvage farming Alexandrite. There are over 1000 Records of Eminence objectives and you could burn yourself out trying to complete all those.

They are effectively turning it into a daily.

I didn't say to not allow it, I just suggested allowing people to double up if they prefer.

As far as I see there is no downside to what I suggested. Less congestion for everyone, players who want to do every day can and people who want to do it every other can do that and lose nothing from it because they can double up rewards

You know no one is holding a weapon to you and saying you have to do it right?

Being able to do something more often isn't an obligation to do so. They specifically let you save up time to postpone 1 run to make it easier to run other content without feeling pressured to do it every single day. I think they did a good job making the content flexible and accessible.

I feel like the real motivation for this thread is congestion: "Guys, stop doing sortie so its easier for me to do it"

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

This so much feels like a troll. People can govern their own behavior. One hour a day doing Sortie probably won't burn most people out. If it does burn out a few, they can take a break and NOT do Sortie. We don't need the game punishing players because some subset of players push themselves too hard.

Everything is a vehicle for burnout. You can spend 10 hours a day farming for job points or exemplar points. You can spend 6 hours a week farming cards in Omen. You can spend all day in Dynamis farming currency for a relic, or in Salvage farming Alexandrite. There are over 1000 Records of Eminence objectives and you could burn yourself out trying to complete all those.

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For them, nothing is a troll. Even when they actually try to.

XI players apparently have 0 moderation. Bye bye burnouts!

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Originally Posted by Pixela

They are effectively turning it into a daily.

I didn't say to not allow it, I just suggested allowing people to double up if they prefer.

As far as I see there is no downside to what I suggested. Less congestion for everyone, players who want to do every day can and people who want to do it every other can do that and lose nothing from it because they can double up rewards

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Doing a double session 3 times a week is exactly the same as doing a single session 6 times a week. There is literally no advantage to doing it your way. If somebody wants to do Sortie every other day, or every 3 days, or once a week, or never, that's the player's choice. I do Sortie every day, except on days when I don't have the time or don't feel like it. I faced no penalty for not doing so.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

Doing a double session 3 times a week is exactly the same as doing a single session 6 times a week. There is literally no advantage to doing it your way. If somebody wants to do Sortie every other day, or every 3 days, or once a week, or never, that's the player's choice. I do Sortie every day, except on days when I don't have the time or don't feel like it. I faced no penalty for not doing so.

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Stop making perfect sense.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

Doing a double session 3 times a week is exactly the same as doing a single session 6 times a week. There is literally no advantage to doing it your way. If somebody wants to do Sortie every other day, or every 3 days, or once a week, or never, that's the player's choice. I do Sortie every day, except on days when I don't have the time or don't feel like it. I faced no penalty for not doing so.

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Many mmo players feel compulsion to do things, so if you let them do it 7 times a week they will do it 7 times a week even if they find it repetitive. Allowing them to double up, makes it less repetitive and helps everyone else because queue times will be less.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Many mmo players feel compulsion to do things, so if you let them do it 7 times a week they will do it 7 times a week even if they find it repetitive. Allowing them to double up, makes it less repetitive and helps everyone else because queue times will be less.

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They will be doomed to self-inflicted suffering then in a decades old video game. Hope they don't feel compelled to get platinum on all their playstation games next. Oh no.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Oh no.

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https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-24-2023/NheXra.gif

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

Doing a double session 3 times a week is exactly the same as doing a single session 6 times a week. There is literally no advantage to doing it your way. If somebody wants to do Sortie every other day, or every 3 days, or once a week, or never, that's the player's choice. I do Sortie every day, except on days when I don't have the time or don't feel like it. I faced no penalty for not doing so.

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Logging in 3 days a week instead of 6 days a week can be much easier for many people, even if it's the same amount of time spent. Having more flexible options is almost always better.

For some reason, I do felt like Sortie could use for more accessible ways. Unlike other content like Omen or DynaD, Sortie also ties with TVR, which makes those 20k gally farms more intimidating to ppl with basic gearings & just wanna enjoy its story content. I know alot ppl brag on how "easy" to solo this, but others having troubles especially with maps which still can be confusing, even after we have unofficial completed map to peruse.

The main problem with Sortie is that it's repetitive and an hour, so you're having to repeat the same thing every day for a long period.

Allowing users to double up key items to double rewards every other day fixes so many problems, I don't see a downside to it. Alternatively just allow players to talk to an npc that halves the time allowed inside and double rewards.

There are lots of ways to do it, but there does need to be more options for content like this.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

The main problem with Sortie is that it's repetitive and an hour, so you're having to repeat the same thing every day for a long period.

Allowing users to double up key items to double rewards every other day fixes so many problems, I don't see a downside to it. Alternatively just allow players to talk to an npc that halves the time allowed inside and double rewards.

There are lots of ways to do it, but there does need to be more options for content like this.

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Everything you said is literally the same way with Salvage and Dynamis, except that you can do those even more often. Aren't you worried about people burning out on Salvage or Dynamis?

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Originally Posted by Pixela

The main problem with Sortie is that it's repetitive and an hour, so you're having to repeat the same thing every day for a long period.

Allowing users to double up key items to double rewards every other day fixes so many problems, I don't see a downside to it. Alternatively just allow players to talk to an npc that halves the time allowed inside and double rewards.

There are lots of ways to do it, but there does need to be more options for content like this.

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Then don't do Sortie. It isn't going to change formats suddenly.

I'm bringing up something others have been posting about in the thread on XIAH, maybe they can't post here.

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The issue is, as Clintbeastwood and others have said, doing the same event every day for 6 months is incredibly repetitive and boring. It's not even an event that provides much for variety within the run. I'm not sure how this is controversial, could anyone who really enjoys Sortie try to provide a counterargument? Genuinely asking.

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I'm someone who still enjoys Sortie for a lot of reasons but I certainly can't pretend that the thought of daily runs for 6 months is anything other than mundane. That's a heck of a grind and it's gonna suck.

The only redemption for me about it all is that in the next 6-whatever months I'm going to be grinding for a job I am passionate about and that extra devotion and focus to it is very much in line with what I really loved about this game long ago.

Yeah, there are a lot of primes I want but it feels like a similar trend, we saw it with master levels in the way getting mlv50 on every job you play just isn't feasible in any reasonable time frame.

Now, inb4 game is different these days, game requires you to play multiple jobs, and so on. It's true, but prime weapons haven't been a necessity to date and doubt that's going to change. Just like master levels, it's a perk, it's growth or specialization through hard work towards a job or two. To me it feels like a throwback and nod to when putting in the time and making sacrifices meant something and I'll be looking forward to the sense of accomplishment down the line.

The worst part of it for me is no end in sight of +2 earring woes.

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Oddy C is half an hour long, rewards a little over 1 million gil at the end, and gives a good chunk of exemplar points in an event you're gonna do anyway. You can actually raise master levels up to around 30-40's range by just running sheol for long enough. Sortie on the other hand is one hour long, gives no gil, and offers very little exemplar. The fact that it's double the duration is what turns people off the most. There's a very big difference between a half hour daily and a one hour daily.

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https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...ate-part-2/10/

You lost me at "Clintbeastwood", but I lost you at "Sortie isn't changing format".

Unless you just want to wrap people into a social fan fic.

Just think about how long it took for every other weapon to be made when they first came out. They were all awful.

All those NM kills before you even got to the aby bosses. Terrible. Box step the dyna mobs harder! Faithful Falcor points out this is the easy version of dyna and it still took forever. Salvage was never fun.

I get the weekly points FOMO that crept it's way into XI from other MMOs. But there is nothing currently you are missing out on by not having these weapons ASAP. I'm happy to let other people fanatically grind this out so they can test out the new WSs etc while I hold onto my Galli. You don't have to lock yourself into progressing on only 1 weapon. If you want to be server/world first, thank you for your service.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

You lost me at "Clintbeastwood", but I lost you at "Sortie isn't changing format".

Unless you just want to wrap people into a social fan fic.

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Why do you allow yourself to be triggered by names or people you don't like? If someone I don't like said something that was useful I wouldn't disregard it, that's childish behavior.

The reason a developer often will ignore some feedback is because players usually don't know what is in the best interest of the game, for instance a player might ask for higher drop rates and then when they get the thing they quit because they are goal orientated and once there is no goal they have no reason to play. So obviously that would be stupid to listen to.

However if you have a suggestion that makes sense and is in the best interest of the game they can take it on board, they might not also but you can still offer the suggestion for consideration.

You act like a 3 year old, if you offer suggestions and they aren't implemented you tell everyone else there is no point suggesting anything.

Allowing players to "double up" key items for greater rewards lowers congestion and queue times, and stops people burning out so badly, allowing people to half the duration inside for greater rewards does the same.

If you want someone to do something every day, you either have to have a much lower duration than 1 hour, add more variety to that thing, add random reward mechanics like low % notorious monsters with good rewards for killing or just do something that makes it less monotonous to do every day.

An hour every day, when it has limited rewards and limited variation is going to cause burn out and I don't want players to burn out.

Yesterday I had a long day at work and was pretty tired when I came home. Normally I do Sortie every day, but yesterday I didn't feel like it so I just watched TV for a couple hours and fell asleep.

I swear I am not making any of this up. Turns out it actually is possible to not log on when you don't feel like doing so.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

Yesterday I had a long day at work and was pretty tired when I came home. Normally I do Sortie every day, but yesterday I didn't feel like it so I just watched TV for a couple hours and fell asleep.

I swear I am not making any of this up. Turns out it actually is possible to not log on when you don't feel like doing so.

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I come here for posts like this.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

Yesterday I had a long day at work and was pretty tired when I came home. Normally I do Sortie every day, but yesterday I didn't feel like it so I just watched TV for a couple hours and fell asleep.

I swear I am not making any of this up. Turns out it actually is possible to not log on when you don't feel like doing so.

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People are different.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

People are different.

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And......?

People who are very goal orientated with force themselves to do it, and burn out.

Why do I need to explain this to you, you know how the top 10% of mmorpg players are. Just telling them not to do it is pointless and they will do it and they will potentially quit over it. If you give them the option to do it 7 times there is no option, they will do it 7 times.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

People who are very goal orientated with force themselves to do it, and burn out.

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Goodbye then. This isn't a unique matter of fact for XI or MMOs.

Calling it "goal oriented" is some next level resume padding spin too.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

People are different.

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So? People have different personalities. It isn't Square-Enix's job to save people from their own personality defects. I'm pretty goal oriented too, and I can also push myself too hard when I want to get something accomplished. Last month, I decided I wanted a Daurdabla. I had the money for the heavy metal plates and riftcinder, but I still needed 50 iron plates, 75 colorless souls, and 75 Apademak horns. I ended up doing this in about a week, spending upwards of 10 hours a day on it and even faking sick to get out of work one day. When the Master Level cap raised to 30, I started doing it for 2 hours a day, then at some point scaled back to 10 hours a week. I was honest to God creating TIMESHEETS in Google Sheets to track my time. Eventually I got so burnt out that I stopped playing for 3 months.

My point is that burnout will happen. The onus is on the player to regulate their own behavior. Otherwise, where does it stop? Put back the daily restrictions on Dynamis for relic builders, Salvage and Assault for mythic builders? Add Abyssea time limits* for Empyrean builders? Add Ambuscade limits so that you don't burn on that? Cap the number of exemplar or job points you can do in a day?

The changes you propose aren't just summoned out of thin air. It takes time, and effort, to implement things. THAT is the downside to your ridiculous idea. With development resources limited, I'd prefer they use it on making actual enhancements and fixing actual bugs, not reinventing the wheel to make a convoluted new entry system.

Honestly, when I first saw this thread, I thought somebody was saying that the 20 hour cooldown was too LONG. Because now that the Prime Weapons have such stiff gallimaufry requirements, people need the option of more time there to speed up the process. I had to reread the title when I saw the content of the first post, because the proposal is so absurd.

*Yes Abyssea is limited by visitant status, but you can leave and come back -- most people have enough traverser stones to stay in Abyssea as long as they want.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Goodbye then. This isn't a unique matter of fact for XI or MMOs.

Calling it "goal oriented" is some next level resume padding spin too.

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No don't you get it? People are hopeless automatons with no control over their actions. Square Enix needs to save them from themselves.

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Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar

No don't you get it? People are hopeless automatons with no control over their actions. Square Enix needs to save them from themselves.

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You don't have to, but as a company that wants to retain players you very much should yes.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

You don't have to, but as a company that wants to retain players you very much should yes.

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You keep doing this thing where you act like your whimsy is in sync with SE's best interest. It is confirmation bias.

I suggest things I think are in the best interest of the game and its players, you argue against things becasue you're a sourpuss. I'm even suggesting that they allow a KI to go gold, if you leave it for 2 days to give double gali rewards. So people who want to do it every day can still do so.

There is no argument you are making as to why it's better as it is, you're just a silly person.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

You don't have to, but as a company that wants to retain players you very much should yes.

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So Square Enix needs to micromanage all their players so that they don't engage in self destructive behavior? That's not how life works. You can't save people from themselves; that's fundamental human psychology.

You still haven't explained why we need to single out Sortie, but allow players to burn themselves out on Dynamis, Salvage, Assault, Abyssea, job points, exemplar points, or farming.

I am the EXACT type of player you are trying to save. Yeah it irked me a tiny bit that, because I skipped Sortie yesterday, my ultimate goal of reforging all 7 of the pieces I have is delayed by one day, but that's it. I'm mature enough to deal with it. Those are the entire consequences. I also recently took up Samurai and I'm at 1610 job points. I want to get up to 2100, and the current double CP campaign makes that easier. And I do feel a little pressure to get it done now before it ends and I have to wait for the next one. But guess what? I did it. I stopped doing capacity points because I farmed like 1300 of them during this campaign and I can honestly not stomach another hour of doing it. I didn't need Square Enix to come in and cap my capacity points for me. I am an adult, and I can pace myself. Any person who is getting tired of Sortie can take a break. Literally the only consequence is that it defers their goals by one day for each time they do it. If they're too obsessive to deal with that, they don't need the game to be redesigned. They need a therapist.

Good post, Tarm, but I can't say more than that they aren't honest enough about it is why. Without it turning into a slam they will one day PM me over or rant about here.

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So Square Enix needs to micromanage all their players so that they don't engage in self destructive behavior? That's not how life works. You can't save people from themselves; that's fundamental human psychology.

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Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium warden.

Furthermore, I already linked you to a thread with smart people who have played the game for a long time are feeling burned out on this content specifically. Allowing them to double up their KI to double up the rewards would go some way to rectify this and lower congestion at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium warden.

Furthermore, I already linked you to a thread with smart people who have played the game for a long time are feeling burned out on this content specifically. Allowing them to double up their KI to double up the rewards would go some way to rectify this and lower congestion at the same time.

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Lolol. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium warden.

Furthermore, I already linked you to a thread with smart people who have played the game for a long time are feeling burned out on this content specifically. Allowing them to double up their KI to double up the rewards would go some way to rectify this and lower congestion at the same time.

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Yes. People burn out. What's your point? You cite a couple people who are bored with Sortie. There are people out there bored with Odyssey, Dynamis, Salvage, Master levels etc., Doubling up is not going to fix that. Doing Sortie for twice as long is not going to make it any less boring for people who are bored with it. You still do the same amount of Sortie. And again, you have not said why every other thing gets a pass. You're just picking on Sortie because it's the newest and trendiest thing.

Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden. What exactly does that mean? Both of these were just high end NMs that weren't thoroughly playtested so they were impossible to beat. Developers fixed that. They made an actual change. You are just proposing some idiotic change where people who hate doing Sortie can continue doing the same amount of the thing they hate, but in a slightly different time configuration. Why not just let them do all 7 hours on one day? A big old marathon! Nobody who is bored with Sortie could object to doing it for seven hours straight.

Nobody really hates Sortie, this change or some similar change would make it less of a chore and reduce congestion.

Explain to me why doing it for an hour every day is better for the game and players than being able to do it once every 2 days for the same reward as an option, you keep yapping but not explaining your point.

The changes to AV and PW were because there were news articles and people were damaging themselves to try and kill it.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Nobody really hates Sortie, this change or some similar change would make it less of a chore and reduce congestion.

Explain to me why doing it for an hour every day is better for the game and players than being able to do it once every 2 days for the same reward as an option, you keep yapping but not explaining your point.

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If you are referring to your video game as "a chore", you are doing video games wrong.

The status quo--doing one hour a day--is NOT better. It's exactly the same. That's my point. You want the devs to waste time to make the game exactly the same way it is, but in a different configuration, to save people who apparently have so little self control that they can't just avoid Sortie on days they don't feel like doing it. Changing the status quo requires work, and if that change is not worth the work, then there is no reason to change. And yet you are still perfectly content to allow them to run themselves ragged farming Alexandrite or Dynamis currency all day long. Because I think you don't actually care about burnout. I think you just want the game to cater to whatever your current passing fancy is.

Getting on an exercise bike for an hour 4 times a week to stay healthy is superior to being forced to get on a bike 7 times a week for an hour.

Allowing people to do Sortie 4 to 7 times a week and attain their goals is better than being forced to do it 7 times to get the gali for your prime weapon.

Your only argument against my suggestion is dev time, my argument against this is that they aren't going to be doing anything major anyway and so making player experience better and lowering congestion of Sortie is a valid use of their time, and exactly what they are there for now.

The problem specific to Sortie and not other things is because a) it's something lots of players feel they have to do in order to get prime weapons, which will take around 6-9 months and b) it lowers congestion for everyone else for the next 6-9 months.

All positives, no negatives.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Getting on an exercise bike for an hour 4 times a week to stay healthy is superior to being forced to get on a bike 7 times a week for an hour.

Allowing people to do Sortie 4 to 7 times a week and attain their goals is better than being forced to do it 7 times to get the gali for your prime weapon.

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NOBODY. IS. FORCED. TO. DO. SORTIE. Stop with this ridiculous lie.

And your suggestion involves doing the exact same amount of Sortie, so it doesn't even fix it for anyone.

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The problem specific to Sortie and not other things is because a) it's something lots of players feel they have to do in order to get prime weapons, which will take around 6-9 months and b) it lowers congestion for everyone else for the next 6-9 months.

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Again, it's not Square Enix's fault if some players are too neurotic and obsessed to skip an event that they don't feel like doing.

Okay well, I'm getting stupider from trying to converse with Pixela. I have somewhere to go tonight, and if I have to do this any more I'm going to forget how to drive.

They are if they want a prime weapon, and they do.

Never fear, you didn't get stupider. You were the same from the start, since you had no counter argument at any point at all.