Job balancing?

There seems to be so many jobs that aren't being utilized. It seems like now all mobs spam AOE to the point where melee jobs cannot be apart of harder content, after returning for some time now me and my group are currently doing T3 in Reisenjima and I never see any MNK, SAM, THF, WAR etc. I would love this to be balanced so other jobs could be utilized all I ever see is BST,BLM,SCH on rare occasion SMN as far as dps. Sometimes I see BLU but not really as much as BST, BLM, or SCH for DPS.

i agree that job balance in this game is at an all time low right now. I think the only jobs wanted are PLD, WHM, SCH, BLM, GEO, COR and BLU. pretty much if you are not one of those 7 jobs you're the wrong job which is pretty bad considering there is 22 jobs in this game so only 1/3 of them are used.

But at the same time SE has a great deal of blame on themselves for creating such an artificial difficulty to this game with NM's the spam AoE attacks so often and having mobs with such over the top evasion that DD jobs are not reliable compared to just using magic which really can't miss. I don't think its more the jobs aren't balanced (with the exception of BLU cause lets face it when 1/2 a server is playing the same job *cough RDM days cough* there is an issue with that job being too powerful) then there is with content being one sided for one strategy only.

SE needs to make some major adjustments to the game. I often find RDM to be useless unless they're capped JP's, and even then a GEO is better in 90% of all situations. Heavy DD's are just a complete liability at this point. Even with full Sulevia's+1, they still can't compare. BRD is nearly useless as well, because they're a support job that specializes with melee.

What needs to be rehauled to allow the jobs to have a chance to become more balanced: Hit rate system, Monster TP moves, the effectiveness of BRD, Multiple/Complete dispel moves, and the number of classes that can effectively tank worthwhile content.

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Originally Posted by cengeal

BRD is nearly useless as well, because they're a support job that specializes with melee.

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...and even their melee buffs are behind a comparably-equipped GEO's, which is kind of disappointing.

When they added Indi/GEO-Haste they might as well have just deleted bard from the game.

I used to BRD to get gear for my other jobs. No one loves us anymore.

GEO was already ahead for most strats, and then they went and gave GEO the only thing that BRD had to offer.

I don't know if they can even fix BRD anymore. The job is clunkier to play than GEO and weaker to boot.

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i agree that job balance in this game is at an all time low right now. I think the only jobs wanted are PLD, WHM, SCH, BLM, GEO, COR and BLU. pretty much if you are not one of those 7 jobs you're the wrong job which is pretty bad considering there is 22 jobs in this game so only 1/3 of them are used.

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Not that it's right for the situation of the game to be like this, but that actually sounds par to the course of how the rest of the history of this game has been so far. Seven might even be a bit generous. It's just not obvious to people because they have been those jobs that have been popular. After all, when BST was disturbingly unpopular, insisting that the job be invited to more events was met with, "But BST is a solo job. Level a party job if you want to join parties."

If you believe it all averages out, I'd say BST and BLU have...I dunno, 8 more years in the spotlight before we can talk about bringing them down a peg.

But of course I'm being partially sarcastic here. Just saying, to people who have previously been unpopular jobs, this really doesn't look like anything new, just a shift in balance where once popular jobs are feeling the burn all of a sudden.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Not that it's right for the situation of the game to be like this, but that actually sounds par to the course of how the rest of the history of this game has been so far. Seven might even be a bit generous. It's just not obvious to people because they have been those jobs that have been popular. After all, when BST was disturbingly unpopular, insisting that the job be invited to more events was met with, "But BST is a solo job. Level a party job if you want to join parties."

If you believe it all averages out, I'd say BST and BLU have...I dunno, 8 more years in the spotlight before we can talk about bringing them down a peg.

But of course I'm being partially sarcastic here. Just saying, to people who have previously been unpopular jobs, this really doesn't look like anything new, just a shift in balance where once popular jobs are feeling the burn all of a sudden.

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The main difference between now and then, is that back at the 75 cap a suboptimal job was simply that: suboptimal. Everyone wanted a samurai, but a MNK, BST, or PUP could still provide meaningful damage. Then you look at today's balancing, and we have comparisons between jobs that can throw out 20k damage every 5 seconds or so, and ones that can maybe hit 5k with after getting TP, if the accuracy gods favor them that day.

Yes there's always been job balance issues, but the difference is far greater now. Instead of being between the best choice and something that's not as good, you're choosing between the best choice and completely and utterly useless for all content in the game.

I remember being it this way. It wasn't like you needed to have a specific job because all of them could do something. But now if you are not "This job" you can't join or do anything with your group because you need "This job" with no acceptions. . . . So upsetting I wanna go as my MNK again!

I think the only way of balance the jobs.

Example

Red Mage, Corsair and BRD.

RDM. Attack/RA. Attack 30%. Accuracy/Ra.Accuracy 20%. MA acc +15% / MA Att + 20%. Can use 1 Buff and One Debuff.

Corsair. 3 Dices by default Instead of 2. Unlocking M/E/A Any "Lv75" Legendary weapon, Unlocks 4 Dices and the ability of Stack same Dice x2. Example X2 chaos Roll, X2 hunter Roll etc.

Bard. 3 Songs Default Instead of 2 and Song duration 90 Seconds More. Unlocking any R/M/E/A lv75 unlocks 4 Songs and duration + 90 Seconds + Potency of All Buffs +10%.

To avoid People Exploit the System. Max Amount of Dices per party 4, Max Amount of Songs per party 4, Max Amount of RDM Buff/Debuff 1/1, Max amount Geo buff/debuff 1/1.

Put Something like this in the Test server 1 Month. Then ask for Feedback to the Playerbase, after all the Feedback received here add the Buff and Keep testing to see if the situation changed. If this work Nexth patch Two-Handers, etc.

Like other people said here. The difference between some jobs its brutal.

if anyone wants a good laugh about how some view how balance works right now, I was helping some people in Escha-Zi'tah and they pulled a group of monsters which i apogee+thunderspark x2 to clear them all out and i did this while a BLU was running past me with their own train. He took the time to stop while being attacked by his own hoard to say that summoner is broken and needs a nerf and then one shots his whole group with his attack.

I don't think the issue of balance can be sorted out properly by players calls cause they will want their own jobs given more power or stay where they are while demanding that other jobs that come close to theirs be nerfed to keep them on top.

As for melee: The problem is not the design of the classes but the design of the combat.

There is hope though. We don't know the stats of future gear but lets look at the Ambuscade armor. While quite tanky, (lots of -dt%), Sulevia's is a hybrid melee set, not a tanking set. It gives great offensive stats, great -dt, all at the expense of Haste which can be overcome in other slots/with buffs.

I'm hoping, really hoping, that this gear has DT because SE has recognized part of the problem, and not just because Paladin can wear it. I hope the MNK/SAM/NIN/PUP (Usukane in Salvage) also has similar levels of DT and offensive stats, as well as Skadi etc. I honestly hope Morrigan's (BLM/SCH/GEO/etc) *does not* have -dt on it. BLM and SCH are already too safe most of the time. And yeah, what makes me a great GEO (even with my little Dunna) is that I stack -DT gear that I've farmed the hard way. I sacrifice some refresh for it, but I am usually the last mage to go down in the event of a wipe.

Melee need great hybrid options because they need to find the balance between offensive and defensive stats. BLM has no such concern. They should be idling in dt/refresh, swapping to fast cast to start the cast, and MAB/MACC to land the spell. Making Morrigan's some beautiful hybrid set would undo so much of the potential that hybrid melee sets might have.

They still need to factor in the fact that melee need soooo much babysitting. Amnesia is stuck for the duration, silence is not (though mutes are).

What frequently kills melee is:

* An AOE WS or Magic followed by an AOE WS or Magic.
* Some curse that diminishes HP or prevents healing or potent dots, coupled with with an AOE WS or magic.
* Can't ignore the incredible damage some monsters' spike spells do. A BLU or THF is a second too late to turn and they're dead.
* Melee can wear some DT gear but they want accuracy and offensive stats. Either they gimp their TP-rate to survive, or they die. Unfortunately a lot of players don't carry -DT gear because they're too much about offense. Mages, on the other hand, stand back at a safe distance and are safe from most damage. A BLM or SCH can relax in DT/PDT/MDT/Refresh/Regen gear and only switch while they're actually casting and lose *no throughput* because of this. If mages are in melee range, it's usually to be protected by vex/attune.
* The melee gets hate either because of a hate reset or because they pulled off the tank. Magic Bursting, though often higher numbers, produces less hate.

I've said it before but BLMs used to be dangerous glass-cannons. They'd hurt you, but they were easy to kill. Now they're rock-solid machine guns.

Melee are often shut down by so many enfeebles that require constant babysitting (some para's are so potent): Amnesia, Paralyze, Blind, Slow, Petrified, Stun, Doom. Stat-down.

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Originally Posted by MDenham

...and even their melee buffs are behind a comparably-equipped GEO's, which is kind of disappointing.

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No, the biggest problem is that an exceptional (REM) bard is behind a standard Dunna GEO in a lot of ways (and I am a Dunna GEO). Bard's few strengths are barely strengths: They can provide a wider variety of buffs, they're not mp-dependent, and they're highly mobile.

Variety of buffs:

* Carols and threnodies, GEO does better Vex/Attune and Focus/Languor respectively
* Useful songs like Minuet (attack+) have fixed values, GEO is percentage based, thus scaling and ultimately far more potent.
* Melee are generally expected to have as much accuracy as they themselves can provide. Sometimes they still need acc support, but not on most contest.
* Bard buffs can't be "killed" at an inopportune time, but they can be dispelled if the boss dispels, but every boss does kill bubbles with enough time.

Mobility

* It is nice they don't have to stay in melee range to be full support to the melee.
* Most battle fields are small.
* Lack of MP-Dependency to do their primary job IS an asset, but with less-than-stellar buffs, this is not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I don't know if they can even fix BRD anymore. The job is clunkier to play than GEO and weaker to boot.

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^ This guy's an R/E/M Bard (and a few Idrises), he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

I think the only way of balance the jobs.

Example

Red Mage, Corsair and BRD.

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Red Mage is not really a "buffer", aside from Haste II/Refresh 3. I don't play RDM and would feel uncomfortable seeing RDM pushed *more* into the supportive role.

Thanks for the thoughtful post Omnys. I know I should just suck it up and level GEO if I want to play support again (and therefore get in parties again) but it's a bummer. It doesn't seem like a lot to ask that they could make bard at least 2/3 as good as GEO...

I agree completely.

It's an insult to the bards like detlef that invested so much effort and the job is now lackluster.

I mean, make no mistake, if GEO did not exist, Bard would still be princess. People would love it for madrigals and even minuets. The problem is the gap between the two is a canyon wide.

The buffs are weaker, the buffs can be dispelled, applying/maintaining 4 full-strength songs is not fun, and the job is too dependent on it's legendary instruments/weapons. The solution is not allowing more songs. Maybe double buff potency while limiting us to only one song of each type per person. This would have the added benefit of letting us know exactly which song needs to be reapplied. Also, instead of Troubadour doubling buff duration, increase base duration and nerf Troubadour by a corresponding amount. And another debuff would be nice but really the job mainly needs stronger buffing capabilities.

COR needs a boost too.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

Bard. 3 Songs Default Instead of 2 and Song duration 90 Seconds More. Unlocking any R/M/E/A lv75 unlocks 4 Songs and duration + 90 Seconds + Potency of All Buffs +10%.

To avoid People Exploit the System. Max Amount of Dices per party 4, Max Amount of Songs per party 4, Max Amount of RDM Buff/Debuff 1/1, Max amount Geo buff/debuff 1/1.

Put Something like this in the Test server 1 Month. Then ask for Feedback to the Playerbase, after all the Feedback received here add the Buff and Keep testing to see if the situation changed. If this work Nexth patch Two-Handers, etc.

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How would this be fair to those of us that are already 4 song brds? If all brds got 3 songs native and limited to 4 max. Also BRD burn parties were fun back in the day, I'd love to get together with 5 other brds, 2 brd /war, 2 /whm, 2 /nin and have up to 24 songs active(if all are 4 song brds).

Also the test server is no longer available. Yes its still an option to click in the menu but the server is gone, so testing is not an option.

My solution to how to fix brd(i've been a brd for 12 years now) is to uncap our songs hard cap and redo how the calculation of the potency of each songs power is determined. The easiest solution is to change our singing, wind, and string skill from C to A+. We are the only job to have instrument skill. Yes geomancer have C skill for handbell and geomancy but the nature of how their spells are calculated is by percent, versus the static values of brd.

If rather not change the base skill, the formula for the songs needs to be recalculated to help lessen the gap between brds buff power and geomancer.

That sounds good.

A 4 song bard, not being able to give the same person more than one song of a type would be able to give the melee 1 March, Madrigal, Minuet and maybe something defensive like Scherzo or a Carol so while GEO might give a stronger buff, GEO can't provide as many buffs and entrusted spells are suitably weak.

So roll all tiers of Valor Minuet into a single spell, same with Madrigals and March and Ballad. If they did this, it might not be necessary for all carols to be rolled into one, or all threnodies. GEO would be preferable for a mage setup, Bard for melee, and they could work well together in a mixed comp...

If melee ever come back into style.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

My solution to how to fix brd(i've been a brd for 12 years now) is to uncap our songs hard cap and redo how the calculation of the potency of each songs power is determined. The easiest solution is to change our singing, wind, and string skill from C to A+. We are the only job to have instrument skill. Yes geomancer have C skill for handbell and geomancy but the nature of how their spells are calculated is by percent, versus the static values of brd.

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Summoner has the same issues with old hard caps on our bloodpact wards. Most are stuck at lvl 75 stats which today are not even worth the mp needed to cast. As for raising the skill stat from C to A+ would break abit of balance as you would be having 2 A+ stats as the base for every song cast. While smn only has a A- ranking for summoning magic which is summoners one and only magic skill so never understood that. I could see bard going from C to maybe B+ or A- and Geo going to A at most.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

Summoner has the same issues with old hard caps on our bloodpact wards. Most are stuck at lvl 75 stats which today are not even worth the mp needed to cast. As for raising the skill stat from C to A+ would break abit of balance as you would be having 2 A+ stats as the base for every song cast. While smn only has a A- ranking for summoning magic which is summoners one and only magic skill so never understood that. I could see bard going from C to maybe B+ or A- and Geo going to A at most.

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Well perhaps gear then that would raise our stat level more than the individual wind skill, string skill, singing skill, along the lines of the Incanter's Torque, but for say All song skills +X amount and removal of the hard caps. In this way base brd would not be OP but a well geared brd could be.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

That sounds good.

A 4 song bard, not being able to give the same person more than one song of a type would be able to give the melee 1 March, Madrigal, Minuet and maybe something defensive like Scherzo or a Carol so while GEO might give a stronger buff, GEO can't provide as many buffs and entrusted spells are suitably weak.

So roll all tiers of Valor Minuet into a single spell, same with Madrigals and March and Ballad. If they did this, it might not be necessary for all carols to be rolled into one, or all threnodies. GEO would be preferable for a mage setup, Bard for melee, and they could work well together in a mixed comp...

If melee ever come back into style.

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That is a HORRIBLE idea to limit to 1 type of each song per person. The whole point of brd is combining quality and quantity of songs for power. Look at how the REM are setup. Relic=Gjallarhron = Quality of songs, Emp= Daurdabla = Quantity and Mythic=Carnwenhan = Duration. If it was only 1 type of song per person max ballad we could give is only 8mp/tic for ballad 3(Gjallarhorn +4, base 3, Emp legs +1). At the moment this is the ONLY spell that can exceed geo's buff ability, Ballad 1, 2, 3 with Gjallarhorn +4 and Emp legs +1, totals 21mp/tic, idris geo maxes out at I believe 16mp/tic. With bolster(1hr) goes to 32mp/tic, but brd can SV and go to 42mp/tic.

If you read detlef's post that I replied to (but did not quote), he talks about enhancing the potency of songs.

The problem is, GEO tramples all over bard in most ways right now, quality, quantity or nothing.

I thought detlef's post was very thoughtful, it's clear they know the job well. I agree that just adding extra songs adds more work without actually fixing the issues with BRD.

If you are referring to this reply, I state again this wouldn't work because of the nature of way brd song power is calculated.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

So roll all tiers of Valor Minuet into a single spell, same with Madrigals and March and Ballad. If they did this, it might not be necessary for all carols to be rolled into one, or all threnodies. GEO would be preferable for a mage setup, Bard for melee, and they could work well together in a mixed comp...

If melee ever come back into style.

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For instance if you combine Ballad 1, 2, 3 into 1 spell that's 6mp/tic add on Gjallarhorn +4 and emp legs +1 and that would only total up to 11mp/tic, 10 mp less than the 21mp/tic that current 3 ballads do because of the fact that the +5 is added only once instead of to each of the individual songs(1+5, 2+5, 3+5). Combining all songs to one and limiting to 1 type per song is not the solution.

If normal NON REM brd gets such a large boost, does that mean those of us who did become REM brd get even more boots? or would we receive nothing for all of the work we put though to achieve REM status?

I don't understand why SMN still has a 30 second BP timer. Could you imagine if you cast Cures and all your cures went on a 30 second timer? BLM's can hit back to back to back with no other global timers on their spells. Maybe separate times for each summon? Even if we could spam BP's every 15 seconds or 30 with different timers per avatar we still are limited by the amount of mp we have. I would say separate timers on each avatar would be the best. Or make the skill similar to BST CD ?

The problem is for most content the nm's hp scaling for larger groups is way to steep and that leads to leaving a lot of jobs out. Sure I would like a bard thf ect in the group but then the nm becomes way more time consuming or impossible to beat.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

If you are referring to this reply, I state again this wouldn't work because of the nature of way brd song power is calculated.



For instance if you combine Ballad 1, 2, 3 into 1 spell that's 6mp/tic add on Gjallarhorn +4 and emp legs +1 and that would only total up to 11mp/tic, 10 mp less than the 21mp/tic that current 3 ballads do because of the fact that the +5 is added only once instead of to each of the individual songs(1+5, 2+5, 3+5). Combining all songs to one and limiting to 1 type per song is not the solution.

If normal NON REM brd gets such a large boost, does that mean those of us who did become REM brd get even more boots? or would we receive nothing for all of the work we put though to achieve REM status?

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I thought it was assumed that the buff would take song+ buffs into account. So let's say that Minuet V strength is equivalent to, say, the attack boost we currently get from a combination of Minuet V and IV including instrument boosts. Make Victory March as strong as the haste boost we get from double Marches. Same with Madrigals and so on. That's a pretty significant boost, and I'd argue that songs should be stronger GEO spells because dispels are a greater deterrent/irritation than having to stay in AoE range or recast a bubble.

Also, your argument about RME BRDs... so what? 4 songs is always more than 3. Ghorn is always stronger than regular instruments. Carn will always be best in slot duration boost. What more do you want? The job doesn't need stronger RMEs, it needs a stronger baseline.

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Originally Posted by Railer

The problem is for most content the nm's hp scaling for larger groups is way to steep and that leads to leaving a lot of jobs out. Sure I would like a bard thf ect in the group but then the nm becomes way more time consuming or impossible to beat.

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True, that is one of the big issues with job balancing nowadays. Not only are the lesser jobs practically worthless at the feet of gods like BLU and BLM, but they're literally worse than bringing nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Railer

The problem is for most content the nm's hp scaling for larger groups is way to steep and that leads to leaving a lot of jobs out. Sure I would like a bard thf ect in the group but then the nm becomes way more time consuming or impossible to beat.

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No, it really isn't.

SAM, DNC, WAR, DRK, BLU, THF.. etc are very capable DD. The problem is that, with small exception to BLU and I guess DNC, it's very difficult for them to survive being near the boss and still hit the boss.

Even if the -DT is on other sets of melee Ambuscade gear, we still have the problem of crippling enfeebles that mages simply aren't affected by.

All HP scaling means, and this does bother me, is that I can't carry friends through harder things and help them get gear. Their presence puts more of a burden on the rest of the group.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I thought it was assumed that the buff would take song+ buffs into account. So let's say that Minuet V strength is equivalent to, say, the attack boost we currently get from a combination of Minuet V and IV including instrument boosts. Make Victory March as strong as the haste boost we get from double Marches. Same with Madrigals and so on. That's a pretty significant boost, and I'd argue that songs should be stronger GEO spells because dispels are a greater deterrent/irritation than having to stay in AoE range or recast a bubble.

Also, your argument about RME BRDs... so what? 4 songs is always more than 3. Ghorn is always stronger than regular instruments. Carn will always be best in slot duration boost. What more do you want? The job doesn't need stronger RMEs, it needs a stronger baseline.

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This is correct, but I'm replying directly to the part I bolded:

Exactly, the only problem with BRD is "baseline" GEO blows pimp BRD out of the water, it's like comparing the tankability of a Warrior to a Paladin.

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In reply to others:

According to https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Madrigal, Double Madrigal from a best-in-slot Bard gives 71 (edit, said 58) accuracy.

The same 4 song bard can give two minuets for 172 (edit: had originally said 138, forgot to account for gear) attack.

A Dunna GEO can give an a melee with 1000 Attack (1000 attack is easily easily achievable) 482 attack (+48.2% to attack) and 75 accuracy (GEO's acc+/evia- bubbles are not % based). Or the GEO can give -28.3% defense to the monster changing a 1000atk vs 1000def to 1482 vs 717. Changes the ratio from 1:1 to 2:1.

Oh, and then, the fury/frailty GEO can entrust +50 accuracy centered on another party member with 50% uptime, or give them Haste or whatever. Or if they provide it as a debuff (indi-torpor, rather than indi-precision), it affects the whole alliance.

Also, the frailty is beneficial to the whole alliance.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Also, your argument about RME BRDs... so what? 4 songs is always more than 3. Ghorn is always stronger than regular instruments. Carn will always be best in slot duration boost. What more do you want? The job doesn't need stronger RMEs, it needs a stronger baseline.

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My point being that those that worked hard to finish REM, what was the point for them? If song power is increased as you described WITH the song+ buffs, you're basically asking to give Relic power to ALL songs for free. Yes those that have R finished would have +4 more power but so what? +4 compared to the amount added to the system your describing is a pittance.

For instance Ballad 1+5+2+5+3+5=21 native now in your suggesting of combining all songs into 1 song with the power of the boosts added. Now Gjallar + legs adds 5 more for 26mp/tic. So who would go after Relic for only a 4mp/tic boost? What is the advantage then of a Relic brd?

Putting it another way percentage wise, current REM brd gets a 350% boost(3.5x that of normal song) with the way songs are setup normal ballad 1+2+3=6mp/tic to a 21mp/tic. Where as if base songs were boosted to relic/emp legs +1 power you'd only get a 124% boost(1.24x that of normal song). Who would go though all the work/gil of relic for a measly 4mp/tic more?

I'm not proposing the perfect solution anyway. Just a concept that might help to solve the problem. Maybe it scaled so that Ghorn versus Langeleik is somehow beneficial enough to meet your standards or Ghorn versus no instrument at all (although keep in mind that +song is duration too, not just potency). I don't know, it's just a concept. The difference between what you're proposing (uncap songs) versus what I'm saying (significantly buff songs and limit us to one of each type) isn't that big, I just care a little more about NQ BRDs and making the job easier to play than you do.

For ease of play, I would suggest a quest for either Daurdabla or Terpander to be able to unlock the 3rd and 4th song natively. Since both are used for quantity of songs, 4 an 3 respectively. Neither are used full time, they are used to get pseudo songs on for replacement with the instrument with all songs or the appropriate plus song.

In this way we would not need to cast 6 songs for a 4 song brd, or 4songs for a 3 song brd. You would just need to cast 4 songs at full power and 3 songs at full power.

For song power if base skill is not increased, or the base power not increased, SE would need to change the way the songs are calculated to give a percentage boost vs the static boost. That would be one way to lessen the gap vs NQ brd, REM brd, and GEO.

That'd be great. But I don't think they're gonna make a legendary instrument into a KI.

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Originally Posted by detlef

[...] [to VoiceMemo] I just care a little more about NQ BRDs and making the job easier to play than you do.

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I was an NQ bard. At this point, I'm not even a bard. I mean I had all the good R/E gear, I had all the instruments that Bard should have when they don't have a horn or harp. But that's what I like about GEO. I'm not wanting to commit to an Idris and become perma-GEO, even though I otherwise give it my all (and find people ALWAYS wanting me GEO), just like R/E bards were perma-bards before that.

Not wanting to bother making legendary weapon(s) for a job shouldn't bar a person from performing well (not necessarily superb) on the job. This is why Paladin's JSE shield, Priwen, is one of the best in the game and why Paladin can't help but -DT-cap these days. Yes, bleeding-edge things require an Idris or an Aegis paladin or a RUN with a giant ceiling-fan-blade, but it's nice when people who have done a job very well, like detlef's bard, still remember that not everyone wants to.

As an HQ Paladin myself, I like that NQ paladins can tank and NQ dd can still perform well.

I'm perfectly fine with buffing NQ brd, but not at the expense that a REM brd's boost becomes a pittance, where there is regret for having done all that work to obtain the legendary instruments/weapon. If NQ brd gets boosted REM brd should also get a boost.

Why does mediocrity need to be the norm, what about those that strive for exceptionalism?

As for mechanics of brd mobs that dispel songs are annoying yes but that's part of the job, something you have to deal with, dealing with multiple songs is the same thing, the way the job was designed. You don't see me asking for smn to be changed(I really don't like the mechanics of the job) so I don't play it. Let those of us who like to play the job to keep playing it. The number/way songs are applied don't really need any change, just the difference in power between NQ, REM, and GEO.

Coloration of song icons with numbers would be the best way to identify which song is on party members, but SE already said no to it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Icons-for-BRD

Although BRD is an underutilized job and taken over by another job there are other jobs that still need some smoothing out. Being a SMN forever and a day I know that needs a lot of work and some tweaking. As far as the other jobs it seems like they can't get close to any of the end game content NM's because they will die in a few hits which is horrible. How do we have jobs that die without any effort from mobs. I was on my MNK the other day trying to do some stuff with ls and who dies first . . . . . Me although it took a bit for me to die I mostly had to dodge runaway a lot to the point where I didn't get to do much but run away from the mob so I wouldn't get one shotted. And if I wasn't running away and tried to do some dps still had to worry about any spike spells the mob had on themselves. On my SMN I feel as if the limiters on them should be adjusted because just like BLM we are limited by our MP. Why such a huge delay time when bst can do there so fast? I just don''t understand the reasoning not to mention our buffs are still stuck at 75. . . It makes no sense still either. I am not sure about any of the other jobs so I don't really know what problems need to be addressed by those other jobs maybe a list of things that could be adjusted?

Smn - I would love if the BP timers for each avatar were separate or the global cool down times were lowered.
Mnk - I honestly don't think it's the job I think it's the mobs and there constant spamming of aoe / status ailments, one time on a mob I was slept, stunned and terrorized the whole fight. . . . So that might be all melee jobs.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

I'm perfectly fine with buffing NQ brd, but not at the expense that a REM brd's boost becomes a pittance, where there is regret for having done all that work to obtain the legendary instruments/weapon. If NQ brd gets boosted REM brd should also get a boost.

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Buffing the baseline of a job affects the top tier of the job too you know. Stop talking about “REM brd” when you really mean Gjallarhorn, the only RME that affects potency. The one that’s already “a pittance” for almost every song.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

Why does mediocrity need to be the norm, what about those that strive for exceptionalism?

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Yeah, I think you’re going to have to get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

As for mechanics of brd mobs that dispel songs are annoying yes but that's part of the job, something you have to deal with, dealing with multiple songs is the same thing, the way the job was designed. You don't see me asking for smn to be changed(I really don't like the mechanics of the job) so I don't play it. Let those of us who like to play the job to keep playing it. The number/way songs are applied don't really need any change, just the difference in power between NQ, REM, and GEO.

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BRD is super clunky to play, I’m surprised that you wouldn’t have any suggestions to streamline its play. If you think that the method to apply 4 full-strength songs can’t be improved then I don’t know what to say.

As an example, it would be nice if “one additional song” instruments just put up a dummy song that would be overwritten by the next song you put up, rather than the song with the lowest duration being overwritten. I think we’ve all had issues reapplying songs where the current set of buffs have a shorter duration than even a non-buffed Daurdabla song.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

Coloration of song icons with numbers would be the best way to identify which song is on party members, but SE already said no to it.

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Yes, that would help. Still, you’ll never know which of the two marches needs to be reapplied or whether it was Blade or Sword Madrigal that was dispelled. That’s why I proposed making the top tier song of each type as strong as doubling down on that song currently (and to balance things, only allow one song of each type). I know this would weaken your precious Gjallarhorn which costs maybe 65m on my server but it’s for the greater good.

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Originally Posted by dmuller30

Although BRD is an underutilized job and taken over by another job there are other jobs that still need some smoothing out. Being a SMN forever and a day I know that needs a lot of work and some tweaking. As far as the other jobs it seems like they can't get close to any of the end game content NM's because they will die in a few hits which is horrible.

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I look forward to the next release of Ambuscade Armor. I hope that (using the salvage names) the Ambuscade version of Usukane and Skadi have a lot of -dt on them too. For years the trade has been whether you want to hit the boss or survive being near the boss. Sulevia's (War/pld/drk/drg) has finally traded survivability for attack speed. I hope the rest follow suit.

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Mnk - I honestly don't think it's the job I think it's the mobs and there constant spamming of aoe / status ailments, one time on a mob I was slept, stunned and terrorized the whole fight. . . . So that might be all melee jobs.

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It absolutely is the design of the mobs that are the problem, like I said before.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Yeah, I think you’re going to have to get over yourself.

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This kindof shows your age to resort to personal attacks. I've not attacked your views. I've just expressed mine.

But this kindof thinking is like todays youth of that EVERYONE gets a trophy, not just the ones that were the MVP.

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Originally Posted by detlef

As an example, it would be nice if “one additional song” instruments just put up a dummy song that would be overwritten by the next song you put up, rather than the song with the lowest duration being overwritten. I think we’ve all had issues reapplying songs where the current set of buffs have a shorter duration than even a non-buffed Daurdabla song.

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I've NEVER had overwrite order issues with Daurdabla. I remove my Emp Neck and Body when casting the Daurdabla dummy songs which reduces those song duration by 24 sec(20%) and then reapply with Gjallarhorn songs at full 4 min 51sec power.

lol "get over yourself" is not a personal attack.

And as a NQ bard who had the R/EX instruments I needed to be decent (even spent a lot of gil chasing after the +all songs augment on the skirmish flute!) I really appreciate that Detlef has suggestions that would help all bards not just ones with super instruments.

No, I didn't save up for a ghorn but I did voidwatch till it made me sick to get a haste harp. I definitely tried to be a good bard, not exceptional by any means, but one that would do their best.

I dislike this attitude some folks have in the game that if you're not rocking an REM you shouldn't expect to play... that's just not good for the game.