whats going to happen to PLD

Seems like lately PLD has become, well useless in [A] zones can we get some love here SE?

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Originally Posted by Volga

Seems like lately PLD has become, well useless in [A] zones can we get some love here SE?

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PLD is in the same position about 75% of the game's jobs are at at any given time in the game's history. Which jobs are in this place rotate occasionally as updates occur, new content is added, etc. But really it's nothing new at all. People need to get over the fact that the Pendulum of Unwantedness swung back into PLD again.

Good lord...some of these "PLD is gimped!" threads remind me of WoW threads when Deathknight was first introduced and they got dethroned off their high-horses...everyone spammed the forums with"WTF?!" and "DK is OP!!!" and Blizzard nerfed them bigtime afterward....shortly after which i gave up on WoW an started to play FFXI full time which was nearly two years ago...lol.

Abyssea is over now, PLD will become useful again (as much as it ever was) on the newer stuff.

native provoke or one more emnity gainning ja is not tomuch to ask for hnm might actualy help in pulling higher chains of mobs can only do so much now i havent tried pld in aby its low now only 75 and no homan pants lol

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Abyssea is over now, PLD will become useful again (as much as it ever was) on the newer stuff.

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Not really, since it was never very useful outside abyssea either.

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Originally Posted by Ordoric

native provoke or one more emnity gainning ja is not tomuch to ask for hnm might actualy help in pulling higher chains of mobs can only do so much now i havent tried pld in aby its low now only 75 and no homan pants lol

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No. Pld, along with every single job in the game, can hold hate just fine, and because hate caps so damn low, can't possibly hold hate better than they already do.

EDIT: beaten by Rog.

On topic: Provoke is not the answer, it is never the answer. Stop thinking Pld's problem is native provoke. Heck the job who learns provoke doesn't even use it unless enmity is reset, it's just that unnecessary.

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Not really, since it was never very useful outside abyssea either.

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At 75 when we still did all these events we used PLD or nin/drk to main tank many things, Odin, DI, Tia..pretty much everything. This applied to almost every other shell on my server too, you could do them all other ways but the vast majority still used pld or nin/drk to tank stuff.

That doesn't make it a useful job.

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Originally Posted by Ordoric

native provoke or one more emnity gainning ja

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Neither of these will help a Paladin keep hate. Neither of these will keep a monster off a DD.

The only way Paladin is going to tank again is if the game mechanics are drastically revised (ie, PDT caps at 25% for all jobs other than Paladin, and all mobs spam moves that remove shadows). Either this, or let Paladins do damage on par with real DDs (ala, WoW). Seeing as we're heading down that road anyway, why not?

Paladin was only ever usful for HNM like Tiamat, and the early days of Dark Ixion, etc anyway (even then a RDM/NIN with the correct gear and knowledge could do it better). Else a DD could do it just aswell with some PDT/MDT gear.

All in the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Neither of these will help a Paladin keep hate. Neither of these will keep a monster off a DD.

The only way Paladin is going to tank again is if the game mechanics are drastically revised (ie, PDT caps at 25% for all jobs other than Paladin, and all mobs spam moves that remove shadows). Either this, or let Paladins do damage on par with real DDs (ala, WoW). Seeing as we're heading down that road anyway, why not?

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Still wouldn't make pld a tank again.

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Originally Posted by rog

Still wouldn't make pld a tank again.

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Oh, that's right. We need to get rid of Counter too.

Edit: Screw it, just give PLD Counter.

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That doesn't make it a useful job.

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It was one of the main tank jobs at 75 and that will probably return, doesn't matter what certain people thought of them being useful or not they were still used to tank everything by the vast majority of players, even in HNM shells.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

It was one of the main tank jobs at 75 and that will probably return, doesn't matter what certain people thought of them being useful or not they were still used to tank everything by the vast majority of players, even in HNM shells.

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The good players have always known pld was not a great choice. Abyssea has taught that to everyone. I don't see pld becoming popular again.

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The good players have always known pld was not a great choice. Abyssea has taught that to everyone. I don't see pld becoming popular again.

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Ultimately we will see what happens when they add new content, nobody really knows what they will do yet or how the players will fight it and Abyssea gives very little indication of how things will go in the future.

Yeah, i still don't see people going back to less efficient strategies after such widespread change to a more efficient one.

Hate caps need fixing for pld if it's ever going to become useful again. Either raise, or remove its cap, while giving it natural +emnity on its current, or new skills, and you MIGHT see some use if it can actually hold again.

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Originally Posted by rog

Yeah, i still don't see people going back to less efficient strategies after such widespread change to a more efficient one.

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Except back then they were efficient. Throwing a MNK on Tiamat at Lv75 just wasn't viable, and the few times I seen Linkshells throw a MNK or a DRK on NMs like Tiamat, Cerberus or Khimaira; a wipe or a flail ensued. The problem is the content in the game got easier; the strength of characters versus the difficulty of content didn't scale. One accelerated, the other almost seemingly reversed.

Maybe I'll level sync to a 75 mule and go throw two monks on Khimaira and see what happens. Guarantee it wont be "efficient"

ITT: Khim was hard to DD tank

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

Except back then they were efficient. Throwing a MNK on Tiamat at Lv75 just wasn't viable, and the few times I seen Linkshells throw a MNK or a DRK on NMs like Tiamat, Cerberus or Khimaira; a wipe or a flail ensued. The problem is the content in the game got easier; the strength of characters versus the difficulty of content didn't scale. One accelerated, the other almost seemingly reversed.

Maybe I'll level sync to a 75 mule and go throw two monks on Khimaira and see what happens. Guarantee it wont be "efficient"

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Or you could use rdm to tank tia, since they need much less support. Or sam wrks too even.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

Hate caps need fixing for pld if it's ever going to become useful again. Either raise, or remove its cap, while giving it natural +emnity on its current, or new skills, and you MIGHT see some use if it can actually hold again.

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I have no idea what you are talking about. Take 2005. Toss in a PLD and 17 BLMs spamming spells, and the PLD can't hold hate. Back then the strategy was "Hold back on nukes and take it slow!". Now it is "GO ALL OUT! KILL KILL KILL!" and then if hate bounces you say "PLD must suck, it can't handle this any longer!".

PLD is exactly as good as it ever was. It is the DD players who have just stopped caring because they can get high numbers and eat cure VI all day.

(Which incidentally means the most efficient way to make PLD popular is to nerf Cure VI so all WARs and MNKs die from taking too much damage)

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I have no idea what you are talking about. Take 2005. Toss in a PLD and 17 BLMs spamming spells, and the PLD can't hold hate. Back then the strategy was "Hold back on nukes and take it slow!". Now it is "GO ALL OUT! KILL KILL KILL!" and then if hate bounces you say "PLD must suck, it can't handle this any longer!".

PLD is exactly as good as it ever was. It is the DD players who have just stopped caring because they can get high numbers and eat cure VI all day.

(Which incidentally means the most efficient way to make PLD popular is to nerf Cure VI so all WARs and MNKs die from taking too much damage)

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That's a perfect example of emnity capping, BLMs being irresponsible, and capping their hate by nuking willy nilly, causing everything they do to get aggro. If a DD did that on a significant Abyssea NM, they'd get their butt handed to them, and probably chewed out by the LS, no one plays like that unless they fail to grasp game concepts.

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Originally Posted by Andylynn

That's a perfect example of emnity capping, BLMs being irresponsible, and capping their hate by nuking willy nilly, causing everything they do to get aggro. If a DD did that on a significant Abyssea NM, they'd get their butt handed to them, and probably chewed out by the LS, no one plays like that unless they fail to grasp game concepts.

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No they wouldn't. Pulling hate isn't a big deal, for any job, including blm.

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Originally Posted by rog

No they wouldn't. Pulling hate isn't a big deal, for any job, including blm.

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If it wasn't then why on earth do tanks have DDs keep off of NMs? Some jobs cant take blows from things that matter, very rarely is zerging applicable outside of worthless, no strategy seal NMs.

Because idiots will be idiots. A properly geared blm will never die to anything because they pulled hate for a few seconds. Nor will any other job.

The root of the problem is that the games paradigm shifted. It shifted in favor of the damage dealer. It used to be that faster kills = faster exp, but the tank was still needed because of DD's inability to take damage and survive. DD's Go all out, take huge damage, Mage cure bombs DD, Mage dies, party wipes, everyone gets pissy. The paladin was the party safety net: they could cure 4 in lue of the Mage and get hate back. In abyssea that's not a concern anymore.

As result DD's could go all out, mages could cure bomb as much as they want; mean while paladins have had a more difficult time making the adjustment. We still use the established tanking models of pld/war and pld/nin. But let's not forget that paladin can actually wear the heaviest dd gear in the game. Rather than a focus on tanking let's focus on finding new job combos, or utilizing previously unused sub job abilities. I'm not saying that will solve the problems completely, but its something to look into. Pld/Sam, pld/blu, /dnc (DW:haste samba) /drk (used to be just situational maybe is more viable now). Idk, just throwing out ideas off the top of my head. My point is shift how you use the job to match the game, we can't always expect the game to shift to match the job.

Only reason DD's hang off is until procs are done, the TP moves most mobs have aren't bad or especially dangerous, it's just annoying as hell trying to proc when the mob is being super whoamg spammy. Once procs are done, they go all out, and BLMs can too.

Hell, BLM's can have more survivability than DD's in the short term. Mana Wall, Enmity Douse, Convert and a good PDT/MDT set makes taking hits on BLM now and then a non-issue. Hell, even sometimes a simple casting of Stun is enough time for the hate to bounce back to a DD. >.>

Give pld the ability to ignore "hate reset." Problem solved by making PLD a situational tank, for most situations.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

Hell, BLM's can have more survivability than DD's in the short term. Mana Wall, Enmity Douse, Convert and a good PDT/MDT set makes taking hits on BLM now and then a non-issue. Hell, even sometimes a simple casting of Stun is enough time for the hate to bounce back to a DD. >.>

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Being able to use pdt/mdt without crippling their damage gives them better survivability long term as well, even without mana wall/vert/enmity douse. Honestly, i'm not sure why people think mages are so fragile. DDs are the fragile ones.

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Originally Posted by rog

Being able to use pdt/mdt without crippling their damage gives them better survivability long term as well, even without mana wall/vert/enmity douse. Honestly, i'm not sure why people think mages are so fragile. DDs are the fragile ones.

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Good addendum, yo. Must've derped because it didn't cross my mind at all.

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Originally Posted by Volga

Seems like lately PLD has become, well useless in [A] zones can we get some love here SE?

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Forever a LOLPLD

Somewhat of a tangent, but I need to get unlazy and farm some good augmented Dark Rings, at the moment my MDT is capped, but PDT is around 52 at night I think, and only 46 during the day... might be 51/45, not 100% sure off the top of my head, but I think that capping fulltime requires either getting good dark rings Dark Rings or buying various pieces of shit gear with low amounts of PDT on them, and my BLM already hovers at like 76/80 while keeping currently unused obi's in mah satchel. :(

Good Dark Rings would also let me cap PDT/MDT in far less slots. >.> Also, all jobs is hawt.

PLD is a job? Is that supposed to be coming out in the next expansion? /trollface

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Originally Posted by rog

Or you could use rdm to tank tia, since they need much less support. Or sam wrks too even.

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I already stated the RDM argument. You know yourself we used RDM for pretty much everything back in the day.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I already stated the RDM argument. You know yourself we used RDM for pretty much everything back in the day.

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Did you? Sorry, in class, not paying attention, skimming posts, etc. Either way, my point was pld is not an efficient job. Using one job to do nothing but tank is just silly. As i said, sam can tank tia fine, and if you want to be safe, you went with rdm, because in addition to being a far better tank, they also could perform other roles, such as enfeebling, support, etc.

PLD has a bunch of uses. Straight out of the box it's probably going to be junk like most everything else in in Abyssea, you need to invest some time in getting decent gear and atmas. AOE burn, Red and Blue procs, holding with super -DT, soloing a bunch of stuff, are all things a PLD is capable of in Abyss. Saying it's "useless" is largely sensationalist garbage.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

PLD has a bunch of uses. Straight out of the box it's probably going to be junk like most everything else in in Abyssea, you need to invest some time in getting decent gear and atmas. AOE burn, Red and Blue procs, holding with super -DT, soloing a bunch of stuff, are all things a PLD is capable of in Abyss. Saying it's "useless" is largely sensationalist garbage.

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Read the posts in the thread, everything you said was already countered.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

Read the posts in the thread, everything you said was already countered.

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Not really. Just because the bandwagon is filling up to breaking point doesn't mean it's going in the right direction. Try to think outside of the box every now and then. Personally I'd much rather see a thread giving people ideas on how to get the most out of their job rather than everyone bashing it, but that's just me. "Go level another job" isn't exactly the kind of advice a lot of people are looking for.

And just so we're clear. I don't even have PLD levelled, so i'm not trying to defend some sort of outrageous gear choice anything like that. But, I've seen people in my shell do some pretty impressive things with it recently. Skilled veterans with multiple, extremely well equipped jobs as a matter of fact.

No one said pld can't be impressive. The argument here is that other jobs are better.

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Originally Posted by Krystal

Good lord...some of these "PLD is gimped!" threads remind me of WoW threads when Deathknight was first introduced and they got dethroned off their high-horses...everyone spammed the forums with"WTF?!" and "DK is OP!!!" and Blizzard nerfed them bigtime afterward....shortly after which i gave up on WoW an started to play FFXI full time which was nearly two years ago...lol.

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Not the same, everyone that is PLD or NOT PLD knows there is a problem.

WoW is more " I am not in the lime lite i am gimp zomg"