whats going to happen to PLD

[Malamasala]

Hate caps need fixing for pld if it's ever going to become useful again. Either raise, or remove its cap, while giving it natural +emnity on its current, or new skills, and you MIGHT see some use if it can actually hold again.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Take 2005. Toss in a PLD and 17 BLMs spamming spells, and the PLD can't hold hate. Back then the strategy was "Hold back on nukes and take it slow!". Now it is "GO ALL OUT! KILL KILL KILL!" and then if hate bounces you say "PLD must suck, it can't handle this any longer!".

PLD is exactly as good as it ever was. It is the DD players who have just stopped caring because they can get high numbers and eat cure VI all day.

(Which incidentally means the most efficient way to make PLD popular is to nerf Cure VI so all WARs and MNKs die from taking too much damage)

[Andylynn]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Take 2005. Toss in a PLD and 17 BLMs spamming spells, and the PLD can't hold hate. Back then the strategy was "Hold back on nukes and take it slow!". Now it is "GO ALL OUT! KILL KILL KILL!" and then if hate bounces you say "PLD must suck, it can't handle this any longer!".

PLD is exactly as good as it ever was. It is the DD players who have just stopped caring because they can get high numbers and eat cure VI all day.

(Which incidentally means the most efficient way to make PLD popular is to nerf Cure VI so all WARs and MNKs die from taking too much damage)

That's a perfect example of emnity capping, BLMs being irresponsible, and capping their hate by nuking willy nilly, causing everything they do to get aggro. If a DD did that on a significant Abyssea NM, they'd get their butt handed to them, and probably chewed out by the LS, no one plays like that unless they fail to grasp game concepts.

[rog]

That's a perfect example of emnity capping, BLMs being irresponsible, and capping their hate by nuking willy nilly, causing everything they do to get aggro. If a DD did that on a significant Abyssea NM, they'd get their butt handed to them, and probably chewed out by the LS, no one plays like that unless they fail to grasp game concepts.

No they wouldn't. Pulling hate isn't a big deal, for any job, including blm.

[Andylynn]

No they wouldn't. Pulling hate isn't a big deal, for any job, including blm.

If it wasn't then why on earth do tanks have DDs keep off of NMs? Some jobs cant take blows from things that matter, very rarely is zerging applicable outside of worthless, no strategy seal NMs.

[rog]

Because idiots will be idiots. A properly geared blm will never die to anything because they pulled hate for a few seconds. Nor will any other job.

[Anethia]

The root of the problem is that the games paradigm shifted. It shifted in favor of the damage dealer. It used to be that faster kills = faster exp, but the tank was still needed because of DD's inability to take damage and survive. DD's Go all out, take huge damage, Mage cure bombs DD, Mage dies, party wipes, everyone gets pissy. The paladin was the party safety net: they could cure 4 in lue of the Mage and get hate back. In abyssea that's not a concern anymore.

As result DD's could go all out, mages could cure bomb as much as they want; mean while paladins have had a more difficult time making the adjustment. We still use the established tanking models of pld/war and pld/nin. But let's not forget that paladin can actually wear the heaviest dd gear in the game. Rather than a focus on tanking let's focus on finding new job combos, or utilizing previously unused sub job abilities. I'm not saying that will solve the problems completely, but its something to look into. Pld/Sam, pld/blu, /dnc (DW:haste samba) /drk (used to be just situational maybe is more viable now). Idk, just throwing out ideas off the top of my head. My point is shift how you use the job to match the game, we can't always expect the game to shift to match the job.

[Fiarlia]

Only reason DD's hang off is until procs are done, the TP moves most mobs have aren't bad or especially dangerous, it's just annoying as hell trying to proc when the mob is being super whoamg spammy. Once procs are done, they go all out, and BLMs can too.

Hell, BLM's can have more survivability than DD's in the short term. Mana Wall, Enmity Douse, Convert and a good PDT/MDT set makes taking hits on BLM now and then a non-issue. Hell, even sometimes a simple casting of Stun is enough time for the hate to bounce back to a DD. >.>

[Dallas]

Give pld the ability to ignore "hate reset." Problem solved by making PLD a situational tank, for most situations.

[rog]

Hell, BLM's can have more survivability than DD's in the short term. Mana Wall, Enmity Douse, Convert and a good PDT/MDT set makes taking hits on BLM now and then a non-issue. Hell, even sometimes a simple casting of Stun is enough time for the hate to bounce back to a DD. >.>

Being able to use pdt/mdt without crippling their damage gives them better survivability long term as well, even without mana wall/vert/enmity douse. Honestly, i'm not sure why people think mages are so fragile. DDs are the fragile ones.

[Fiarlia]

Being able to use pdt/mdt without crippling their damage gives them better survivability long term as well, even without mana wall/vert/enmity douse. Honestly, i'm not sure why people think mages are so fragile. DDs are the fragile ones.

Good addendum, yo. Must've derped because it didn't cross my mind at all.