Inquiry for Mr. Matsui: Upcoming Weapon Skill Refinements?

From the Job Adjustments Manifesto written in 2011:

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Additional Planned Adjustments

• Weapon skill refinements

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and this from earlier this year:

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Originally Posted by Camate

In regards to weapon skills, we are also planning to revamp each job's weapon skills in the future.

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These were written while under the helm of a different producer. It has been a long time since we've heard absolutely anything on this subject matter. To Mr. Matsui, may we please have an update on the status of the planned Weapon Skill Refinements?

I speak for myself and the many disheartened owners of Relic, Mythic and Empyrian weapons that have an incredibly weak weapon skill. Among us, there is little to no hope on this issue due to the lack of updates regarding this adjustment.

The weakest weapon skills that come to mind are the following:

• Redemption's "Quietus"
• Rhongomiant's "Camlann's Torment"
• Farsha's "Cloudsplitter"
• Caladbolg's "Torcleaver"

and just about all relic and mythic weapon skills need the refinements.

All of the favorable empyrian weapon skills have a great damage modifier, a chance at critical hits or both. These come to mind:

• Ukonvasara's "Ukko's Fury"
• Verathragna's "Victory Smite"
• Almace's "Chant du Cygne"
• Kannagi's "Blade: Hi"
• Masamune's "Tachi: Fudo"
• Gandiva's "Jishnu's Radiance"

(Rudra's Storm and Wildfire I am unsure of.)

I am aware a lot of the merited weapon skills are the most powerful alternative at this time but those come at a cost of many merit points. The relic/mythic/empyrian weapon skills all require a great deal of time and gil. For them to be so inferior does not make any sense given the vast amount of time and effort needed to make such a weapon. Just looking at the 11th Vana'diel Census you will find the weapons with the weakest WS being the least popular.

I ask all of you who read this to Like this post and share your thoughts on this subject matter. Hopefully, the community will pass this on the development team and grant us a response at the very least.

dont think Torcleaver is weak at all and rudra storm is powerful when using the right dnc or thf ability.

Cloudsplitter is a good magic WS with the right atma/magi ect. but wildfire is powerful with right atma/magic set

Didn't wildfire's performance scale poorly as we leveled up? I mean when the level cap was 85/90 it was awesome but now at 99 it is just "sort of average" compared to other physical WSes?

Thank you! Please adjust Quietus!!! After spending so much time to make it, just to have it be outdone by a dagger. I would honestly come back to the game if they readjusted this weaponskill.

Wasnt the Weapon Skill adjustment supposed to be, altering what WS's can be performed by each job, not the WS effects themselves, there was some mention long long ago, in regards to giving certain WS to a wider variety of jobs, to enable more jobs to proc in Abyssea.
Last time anything was mentioned on this would be around Dec 2011, when SE made a comment in regards to RDM's temper spell, about "Reviewing RDM's weapon proficiencies next update" ( Connected to the FAQ for each job around that time, and giving RDM native staff skill).

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Didn't wildfire's performance scale poorly as we leveled up? I mean when the level cap was 85/90 it was awesome but now at 99 it is just "sort of average" compared to other physical WSes?

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It is still a very powerful weaponskill. Last Stand does give it a run for its money (RNGs definately like that better, or sometimes Coronach) but you'll find that lots of CORs still favor Wildfire.

Personally, I would love it if they could adjust every weapon skill so that every single one will have some sort of niche use, so we arn't always just telling ourselves to spam the same weapon skill in combat over and over. Obviously we'll always have one that's best for damage but making the rest of them all have some use would be very nice (The Warrior's Break WSs come to mind immediately, if they were improved they would see a lot more use).

Just as an example, I'll use Katana WS since that's what I'm most familiar with:

Blade: Rin- Add "Stun" Effect to the WS.
Blade: Retsu- Increase the duration of the effect.
Blade: Teki- Increase damage, add "Drown" effect.
Blade: To- Increase damage, add "Frost" effect.
Blade: Chi- Increase damage, add "Rasp" effect.
Blade: Ei- Increase damage, add "Bio" effect.
Blade: Jin- Fine as-is.
Blade: Ten- Add TP-cutting effect.
Blade: Ku- Increase the mods, make it better than Jin in low-crit situations.
Blade: Yu- Make TP mod damage instead, make current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP.
Blade: Kamu- Change fTP to 3.0+, increase current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP, make TP mod damage or crit rate.
Blade: Metsu- Lengthen aftermath and allow subtle cap break, increase fTP to 4.0.
Blade: Hi- Increase the crit % mod at various TP values. 20/35/55 like Ukko's would be nice.
Blade: Shun- decrease the attack penalty at and make the attack scale faster.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

Rudra storm is powerful when using the right dnc or thf ability.

Cloudsplitter is a good magic WS with the right atma/magi ect. but wildfire is powerful with right atma/magic set

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Rudra's problem is that it sucks unstacked. If they gave it the ability to critical hit without changing anything else about it, the weaponskill would instantly become much more useful. It would suddenly have a 30-40% chance to critical hit and we could probably just spam it and maintain Twashtar aftermath.

Considering the damage isn't really that mindblowing when using it with SA/TA/CF, I don't think this is really so far out of line. If I do the same damage as an average Ukko's Fury when I use Climactic Flourish -> Rudra's Storm (which adds 20% damage with AF3+2 head), then letting it crit normally shouldn't be an issue.


Torcleaver sucks compared to Resolution, which is its competition.

Cloudsplitter is worse than Primal Rend unless you are using a brew.

Wild Fire is fine, but Last Stand is also very powerful. I don't really think this requires adjustment.

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Originally Posted by Zeroe

Thank you! Please adjust Quietus!!! After spending so much time to make it, just to have it be outdone by a dagger. I would honestly come back to the game if they readjusted this weaponskill.

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If you're still posting here then your account is still active, at least until the end of the month. If you thought otherwise, I recommend that you check the account page and make sure you aren't paying for something you aren't using.

You retain forum access for as long as your cookies are valid, or something. Last time I stopped my subscription, I could post here for over 4 months before a random forum maintenance shut me out.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

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Exactly! You are right on target. I think it'd be fantastic to have more tactical options to use our "Tactical Points" on. All our weapon skills should be reevaluated with such a mind set.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Rudra's problem is that it sucks unstacked. If they gave it the ability to critical hit without changing anything else about it, the weaponskill would instantly become much more useful. It would suddenly have a 30-40% chance to critical hit and we could probably just spam it and maintain Twashtar aftermath.

Considering the damage isn't really that mindblowing when using it with SA/TA/CF, I don't think this is really so far out of line. If I do the same damage as an average Ukko's Fury when I use Climactic Flourish -> Rudra's Storm (which adds 20% damage with AF3+2 head), then letting it crit normally shouldn't be an issue.


Torcleaver sucks compared to Resolution, which is its competition.

Cloudsplitter is worse than Primal Rend unless you are using a brew.

Wild Fire is fine, but Last Stand is also very powerful. I don't really think this requires adjustment.



If you're still posting here then your account is still active, at least until the end of the month. If you thought otherwise, I recommend that you check the account page and make sure you aren't paying for something you aren't using.

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While wild fire and last stand are fine, Laeden salute is beneath earth atm. The WS sucks from a modifier point of view and the lack of dmg is just fucked, not to mention that alot of mobs (especially NMs) tend to resist the shit out of dark magic elements.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Rudra's problem is that it sucks unstacked. If they gave it the ability to critical hit without changing anything else about it, the weaponskill would instantly become much more useful. It would suddenly have a 30-40% chance to critical hit and we could probably just spam it and maintain Twashtar aftermath.

Considering the damage isn't really that mindblowing when using it with SA/TA/CF, I don't think this is really so far out of line. If I do the same damage as an average Ukko's Fury when I use Climactic Flourish -> Rudra's Storm (which adds 20% damage with AF3+2 head), then letting it crit normally shouldn't be an issue.

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Agreed. I think Mercy Stroke, Rudra's Storm and Mandalic Stab all have the same problem....They were unlucky enough to be programmed as Dagger WS They suck.

If you don't combine them with job abilities, their damage won't outdo a WS you obtain at level 60. The Ability timer bottleneck forces you to use non Relic/Mythic/Empyrean WS unstacked to do BETTER damage than the Relic/Empyrean/Mythic you spent your heard earned money and time to obtain.

And the Positional restriction on THF job abilities limits this even further.

This really should not be the case for these "Ultimate Weapons."

A boost to the critical hit rate for Chant du Cygne to place it on par with Victory Smite would be quite welcome. If not that, then maybe a slight base damage increase.

Expiacion literally does nothing. Making it similar to Mystic Boon or even 1/2 of that effect would make it useful. Rudra Storm should really have a stand alone chance to crit because it's pretty much a slap in the face the way it is. It's just an unnecessary added condition to make it on par with the other ws. Many relic ws really deserve a major dmg increase to compete with the newer ws.

And... Unlock the cap for meriting the newer ws. That cap shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Crimsonwizard is correct in what they meant by weaponskill adjustments. when first announced it stated something about adding/removing/improving (as in raising the skill level not the ws themselves) the WS we had access to on certain jobs to spread the proc love around. hopefully they dont wait until abyssea is completely illrelevant to do this. for instance his mention of rdm native staff skill since most non melee rdm are using staves, or pups throwing skill but they need to have animators in that slot kinda crap, or i think blu can use chackrams but have no throwing skill (its been a while since i looked at that)?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Didn't wildfire's performance scale poorly as we leveled up? I mean when the level cap was 85/90 it was awesome but now at 99 it is just "sort of average" compared to other physical WSes?

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No it's not like that, WF is a magical WS, so atma/atmacite/firestorm boosts it's dmg greatly, and performs better(compare with physical WS) when pt's attack is low. Performs worse than physical WS if pt's attack is high or mob has higher MDB.

At lv 85/90 you probably mean abyssea era, when you can use 3x dmg boost atma. When VW was just out, a lot of the DDs aren't properly buffed, so WF seems higher because it doesn't require large attack buff to do decent dmg on mobs like Hahava. Then as more and more Atmacite released, WF still remain high due to 3x atmacite and firestorm + MAB drink.

Outside of VW and Abyssea it's worse than properly buffed physical WS though, due to lack of MAB atmacite, and quite a lot of mobs outside of VW have high MDB, without many ways to lower it. Think of it this way, if WF does 2k outside of abyssea/VW, in Abyssea/VW you do 3~5k due to buff, so that seems high. If you pt with a physical DD with low pDIF and no buff, and he did something like 1.5k physical WS, unbuffed 2k WF still seems high. Buff physical with higher pDIF, now physical WS did 3k and WF do 2.5k without atma/atmacite but only firestorm/wizards, now WF seems weak. It's just nearly impossible to buff WF over 3~4k outside of VW/abyssea on most mobs, while physical still very possible with dia 3/angon/SV min x4/chaos/LR etc. There aren't many debuff to weaken mob MDB too, while there are many ways to weaken def for physical WS.

WF is just harder to buff or debuff to high number outside of Abyssea/VW, unlike physical WS.

Edit: Another reason why WF seems sucked now is because majority of COR and RNG doesn't buff WF properly, they don't lv up atmacite which makes huge difference, and nobody feed them firestorms, which also makes huge difference with karin obi. I also rarely see COR use wizard roll on themselves, they often just stick with melee rolls. A properly buffed WF in VW can hit 3k~4k easily unless mob have higher MDB, which isn't bad compare with physical WS at all. WF is still my WS of choice over last stand in majority of situations, unless I'm getting at least 2 attack song+chaos+/WAR+attack food+ dia and angon, or unless mob just resists/absorbs fire and magic.

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Originally Posted by Damane

While wild fire and last stand are fine, Laeden salute is beneath earth atm. The WS sucks from a modifier point of view and the lack of dmg is just fucked, not to mention that alot of mobs (especially NMs) tend to resist the shit out of dark magic elements.

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All mythic WS except DRG and PUP needs adjustment tbh. Would make Mythic a lot better than it is now.

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Originally Posted by Afania

No it's not like that, WF is a magical WS, so atma/atmacite/firestorm boosts it's dmg greatly, and performs better(compare with physical WS) when pt's attack is low. Performs worse than physical WS if pt's attack is high or mob has higher MDB.

At lv 85/90 you probably mean abyssea era, when you can use 3x dmg boost atma. When VW was just out, a lot of the DDs aren't properly buffed, so WF seems higher because it doesn't require large attack buff to do decent dmg on mobs like Hahava. Then as more and more Atmacite released, WF still remain high due to 3x atmacite and firestorm + MAB drink.

Outside of VW and Abyssea it's worse than properly buffed physical WS though, due to lack of MAB atmacite, and quite a lot of mobs outside of VW have high MDB, without many ways to lower it. Think of it this way, if WF does 2k outside of abyssea/VW, in Abyssea/VW you do 3~5k due to buff, so that seems high. If you pt with a physical DD with low pDIF and no buff, and he did something like 1.5k physical WS, unbuffed 2k WF still seems high. Buff physical with higher pDIF, now physical WS did 3k and WF do 2.5k without atma/atmacite but only firestorm/wizards, now WF seems weak. It's just nearly impossible to buff WF over 3~4k outside of VW/abyssea on most mobs, while physical still very possible with dia 3/angon/SV min x4/chaos/LR etc. There aren't many debuff to weaken mob MDB too, while there are many ways to weaken def for physical WS.

WF is just harder to buff or debuff to high number outside of Abyssea/VW, unlike physical WS.

Edit: Another reason why WF seems sucked now is because majority of COR and RNG doesn't buff WF properly, they don't lv up atmacite which makes huge difference, and nobody feed them firestorms, which also makes huge difference with karin obi. I also rarely see COR use wizard roll on themselves, they often just stick with melee rolls. A properly buffed WF in VW can hit 3k~4k easily unless mob have higher MDB, which isn't bad compare with physical WS at all. WF is still my WS of choice over last stand in majority of situations, unless I'm getting at least 2 attack song+chaos+/WAR+attack food+ dia and angon, or unless mob just resists/absorbs fire and magic.

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That post pretty much confirmed what I thought was the case. Wildfire is not great without content-specific magical boosts, and physical WSes are much easier to buff to high values, especially at lv99.

That seems to be the case for a lot of magical WSes, really. It seems like magical WSes through the entire game always stay at a certain power level, and never really increases significantly in damage, such as all other physical WSes do. I guess this is partially because the magical WSes always have the same DMG rating, no matter what level you are and which weapon you use, while physical WSes use the DMG rating of your weapon, which in many cases increase a lot with levels.

Maybe the player's level should be made part of the equation for magical WSes, or perhaps magical WSes should use the weapon's dmg rating as well, or a combination of its own DMG, and the weapon DMG.

Alternatively, magical WSes could instead get a MAB boost based on how much skill we have in the particular weapon. It could be based on how much higher our current skill is compared to the skill required to unlock the WS. Exactly how much this would amount to would have to be mathed out, of course, to maintain the very important Balance.

Torcleaver hardly sucks, Resolution is just that good.

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Originally Posted by Crimsonwizard

Wasnt the Weapon Skill adjustment supposed to be, altering what WS's can be performed by each job, not the WS effects themselves, there was some mention long long ago, in regards to giving certain WS to a wider variety of jobs, to enable more jobs to proc in Abyssea.
Last time anything was mentioned on this would be around Dec 2011, when SE made a comment in regards to RDM's temper spell, about "Reviewing RDM's weapon proficiencies next update" ( Connected to the FAQ for each job around that time, and giving RDM native staff skill).

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

Crimsonwizard is correct in what they meant by weaponskill adjustments. when first announced it stated something about adding/removing/improving (as in raising the skill level not the ws themselves) the WS we had access to on certain jobs to spread the proc love around. hopefully they dont wait until abyssea is completely illrelevant to do this. for instance his mention of rdm native staff skill since most non melee rdm are using staves, or pups throwing skill but they need to have animators in that slot kinda crap, or i think blu can use chackrams but have no throwing skill (its been a while since i looked at that)?

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Perhaps that is what they may have meant in 2011 but Camate's quote is from earlier this year in response to Beastmasters wanting better options with scythes and having access to Dark Knight's EX weapon skills. Then he goes to mention that the development team has plans to revamp each job's weapon skills and that is the main point here.

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Originally Posted by Camate

More scythes for beastmaster eh?

Well, the development team just told me that they do in fact have plans to add some new scythes to beastmaster's array of weaponry.

In regards to weapon skills, we are also planning to revamp each job's weapon skills in the future, but we can't make any promises about giving Guillotine and other EX weapon skills to beastmaster.

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This change is in dire need. My only hope is that they don't nerf anything when or if this update does happen.

Just let us know what you are going to nerf so that I don't get that relic lol. Honestly I'm scared to get a ragnorak cause I see the nerf coming on resolution.

I'd like access to staff weaponskills on BLM, SCH, SMN natively. I think that Omniscience is a great weaponskill in that you can lower the magic attack of your foe for a little while, but I don't think it does enough damage even with great gear, nor does the effect enfeeble your opponent very well.

I like where this thread is going. I will agree that there are many Empy weapons/weaponskills that are lacking potency when compared to their piers. In my mind if your going to quest rigorously to make a weapon with a weaponskill on it the weaponskill should be viable to utilize in the majority of the content.

Tanama's comment starting this thread and pointing out the weapons/weaponskills in need of a boost was very much spot on so instead of repeating her I'll quote her. ^^

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Originally Posted by Tanama

The weakest weapon skills that come to mind are the following:

• Redemption's "Quietus"
• Rhongomiant's "Camlann's Torment"
• Farsha's "Cloudsplitter"
• Caladbolg's "Torcleaver"

and just about all relic and mythic weapon skills need the refinements.

All of the favorable empyrian weapon skills have a great damage modifier, a chance at critical hits or both. These come to mind:

• Ukonvasara's "Ukko's Fury"
• Verathragna's "Victory Smite"
• Almace's "Chant du Cygne"
• Kannagi's "Blade: Hi"
• Masamune's "Tachi: Fudo"
• Gandiva's "Jishnu's Radiance"

(Rudra's Storm and Wildfire I am unsure of.)

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I also agree with utilizing the Census Tanama pointed out to further determine which need to be fixed.

As a Beastmaster main, I am aware Farsha was tested by the dev team and stated to be "working as intended". I advise tests are done again for Farsha and all other weapons/weaponskills in question to determine if each are "working as intended" and are up to par with merit weaponskills, future content yet to be released, and both in and out of Abyssea content in mind. I'd also like to urge that we are kept on the same line of thought as the dev team in this matter as they are sharing their thoughts on the adjustments with Embrava and Perfect Defense.

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Originally Posted by nyheen

Cloudsplitter is a good magic WS with the right atma/magi ect.

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In reply to Nyheen, Cloudsplitter is a decent magic WS with the right atma and plenty of magic attack (which Beastmaster and Warrior don't get much of). The problem is to bring Cloudsplitter up to this decent level a Beastmaster using the weapon/weaponskill has to sacrifice pet power and effectiveness along with their own DoT numbers in exchange for this decent weaponskill (WAR would also loose DoT not just BST). As I've heard stated many times... Cloudsplitter from Farsha (an Empy weapon) gives axes a way to brew NMs that Daggers with the appropriate level of skill can do with Aeolian Edge.

Simply decent just doesn't seem fit for any Empy weapon.

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Simply decent just doesn't seem fit for any Empy weapon.

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So True, So True.

Remove Drakesbane's Attack Penalty. It won't be overpowered considering how low the base critical hit is at 100% TP compared to other crit WS which have a base crit% of 10-15%.

Something I think would be nice is allowing more than 3 fully merited weaponskills from the meritable weaponskill list... the combo limit being so low is fine for people who specialize in only one or two jobs, but not so good for people who play most jobs. (I doubt it will happen, but I can dream :( )

The thing is i will be happier if they add more WS to jobs that don't currently have them (or makes sense to have) than if they improve relic mythic and empereal weapons' Wses. I see that the relic mythic empy ws is indeed part of the OP, but i have seen this question in relation to the "Weapon skill refinements" quote several times lately and at the time it wasnt the WSes themselves it was the actual skills and who has them (using the term weapon skills is kinda misleading). I dont remember where it was the the devs said at the time this was the case. I was kinda disappointed when these changes didnt come with the merited WSes.

I am not saying they shouldnt adjust the WSes but i am more afraid they will overlook what id rather see because of threads like this with people just talking bout the power of their WSes, which there is prolly over 9000 threads about.

Actually after reading your full quote of Camate I still see this as what i am refering to as he mentions about maybe not being able to give bst the drk's EX scythe ws. It still isnt actually increasing a WS power but the skill levels and what WSs we get (again the term "weapon skills" is misleading here). I'm surprised no one reacted to THF being put on the meritted gun WS when they dont naturally get gun WSes.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

The thing is i will be happier if they add more WS to jobs that don't currently have them (or makes sense to have) than if they improve relic mythic and empereal weapons' Wses. I see that the relic mythic empy ws is indeed part of the OP, but i have seen this question in relation to the "Weapon skill refinements" quote several times lately and at the time it wasnt the WSes themselves it was the actual skills and who has them (using the term weapon skills is kinda misleading). I dont remember where it was the the devs said at the time this was the case. I was kinda disappointed when these changes didnt come with the merited WSes.

I am not saying they shouldnt adjust the WSes but i am more afraid they will overlook what id rather see because of threads like this with people just talking bout the power of their WSes, which there is prolly over 9000 threads about.

Actually after reading your full quote of Camate I still see this as what i am refering to as he mentions about maybe not being able to give bst the drk's EX scythe ws. It still isnt actually increasing a WS power but the skill levels and what WSs we get (again the term "weapon skills" is misleading here). I'm surprised no one reacted to THF being put on the meritted gun WS when they dont naturally get gun WSes.

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While having access to more weapon skills on more jobs is exciting, especially with all the procs, SE has stated they will be making these changes and many of us including myself are happy they will be doing that. Their mentioning "refining weapon skills" does remind us of what we believe needs to be addressed that no matter how we asked in the past has been ignored, put off, or told "it is working as intended" (on the dev part not on our part). We don't intend to make the dev team overlook one change they have stated they will make in exchange for another but to see what we believe needs to be addressed and look into it fitting into the overall scheme of the development of the game.

If we the players didn't speak our mind about what we see as "off" with the game then the dev team will see it as working "as intended" and likely not make changes to it. This is also why you see it talked about all over the forums because it takes X players that want something changed for the devs to consider what to do with the idea.

All that said yes Red Lotus Blade should be accessible to Red Mage. At the same time yes, weapons with their own titles to them (relic, mythic, empy) with rigorous and testing requirements to obtain should have weaponskills viable and highly competitive with other weaponskills for use in the vast majority of content that is and will be out there.

Hopefully now with the new director looking at version update threads, this one can get some light shed on it.

I'm really trying to understand why some think all weapons should out put same damage. In terms they "NEED" to be equal, The same. It would be trying to fix all stats and modifiers on each weapon... like lets say;

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...d/Kikoku90.png This helps with the Defensive side of said job.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../22/Nagi90.png This helps with the abilities of said job.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Kannagi90.png This helps with the Offensive side of said job.

Here is another way to look at it, A PLD is crying about they want to do more Damage.... and a Warrior is crying about they want to take more Damage.... Now if they would just level each of those jobs on their own character, They would have best of both worlds.

Other Example.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Bravura90.gif

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...onqueror90.png

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...onvasara90.png

We can have the best of all worlds, We just can't have them all in one(1) weapon is what I'm understanding.

Heres where that sucks, the ones for improving your abilities often suck, and you in fact chose the worst as an example. A 450 Mil weapon with alot of extra work into it, and for your reward you do more damage exploding and killing yourself, yay~... totally worth the investment.

This just in:

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

As previously mentioned above, if we were to increase Shockwave's sleep effect more than what it is currently, it would become extremely strong when fighting multiple enemies or strong enemies. Therefore, adjusting the potency/accuracy without affecting general battle strategy would be quite difficult.

By increasing magic accuracy the success rate will increase, so we'd like players to find methods like this to use it.

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While this may not be a direct response to this thread, this view is more than likely shared for the entire weapon skill line-up by the development team. And the lack of dev-response to this thread itself pretty much shows all weapon skills are "working as intended".

My hope for any future positive adjustments to weapon skills has been greatly reduced.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Torcleaver sucks compared to Resolution, which is its competition.

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Because resolution is broken. If you are going to compare to resolution, then every other WS in the game needs buffed. They just need to fix resolution to be in line with the other merit WS.

Upheaval: 4.2 ftp, vit mod, 158 base damage weapon
Entropy: 3.8 ftp, int mod, 167 base damage weapon
Stardiver: 3.8 ftp, str mod, 159 base damage weapon
Resolution: 4.59375 ftp, str mod, 143 base damage weapon

Torcleaver: 4.95 ftp, 60% vit mod, 142 base damage weapon

Resolution is ~9.5% ahead of upheaval on ftp, and the str mod more than makes up for the lower damage weapon. Resolution is ~20% ahead of entropy and stardiver, but polearms damage per hit is only ~6% higher than gswords after wsc and fstr, and obviously entropy gets screwed with the int mod. Torcleaver isn't that far behind stardiver, like 9% worse. If resolution were brought in line with stardiver it would be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Mercilessturtle

Because resolution is broken. If you are going to compare to resolution, then every other WS in the game needs buffed. They just need to fix resolution to be in line with the other merit WS.

Upheaval: 4.2 ftp, vit mod, 158 base damage weapon
Entropy: 3.8 ftp, int mod, 167 base damage weapon
Stardiver: 3.8 ftp, str mod, 159 base damage weapon
Resolution: 4.59375 ftp, str mod, 143 base damage weapon

Torcleaver: 4.95 ftp, 60% vit mod, 142 base damage weapon

Resolution is ~9.5% ahead of upheaval on ftp, and the str mod more than makes up for the lower damage weapon. Resolution is ~20% ahead of entropy and stardiver, but polearms damage per hit is only ~6% higher than gswords after wsc and fstr, and obviously entropy gets screwed with the int mod. Torcleaver isn't that far behind stardiver, like 9% worse. If resolution were brought in line with stardiver it would be reasonable.

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BS

Ruinator is stronger then resolution. Only the fact that it's 1H limits it's power.

Why hasn't a mod given this clown his stupid trophy so he can go somewhere else? "Ruinator is better except that it isn't". Well duh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercilessturtle

Why hasn't a mod given this clown his stupid trophy so he can go somewhere else? "Ruinator is better except that it isn't". Well duh.

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Except that it is. Only the 1H 2.0 ratio cap is a limit (and the fact that no WAR would DW anyway).

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ruinator

Four hits (5 DW) at 1.0 fTP, 100% STR and 37.5% attack bonus. That's the same attack bonus Tachi: Shoha gets btw, and unlike Shoha the bonus is on all hits including additional procs. To top it off it copies fTP on all hits, with gorget / belt your looking at 1.2 fTP on five for 6.0 fTP total not including any DA / TA.

6.0 fTP
100% STR
1.375% Attack multiplier

vs

5 hits, 0.95 fTP (including belt + gorget + moonshade)

4.75 fTP
100% STR
0.92% attack multiplier

As I just said, the only thing holding Ruin back is the 2.0 Ratio cap vs the 2.25 for res.

After I did 5/5 resolution I did 5/5 Ruinator and messed around with on WAR/NIN (for the lulz), did some stupidly large numbers. Not being a BST/DNC kinda helps it's damage output. What makes GS so powerful right now is the combination of the obscenely powerful DPS weapon that Ragnarok is with a powerful multihit STR based WS.

Learn the WS's actual info before posting garbage.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Only the 1H 2.0 ratio cap is a limit

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Why is "duh" always the most appropriate response to you? Yes, the lower ratio cap and the lower base damage are why ruinator isn't broken. Almost like they gave the 1h weaponskills higher ftp to make up for the fact that they are 1h or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercilessturtle

Why is "duh" always the most appropriate response to you? Yes, the lower ratio cap and the lower base damage are why ruinator isn't broken. Almost like they gave the 1h weaponskills higher ftp to make up for the fact that they are 1h or something.

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Most likely because these forums are overridden with people (like you) who need the obvious stated bluntly in order for it to get absorbed. Then, you chose to ignore the entire point in an effort to mock the method someone uses in an attempt to educate you.

Your argument that Resolution needs to be nerfed in-line with other WS misses the point of the mechanics behind the WS. As Saevel pointed out (repeatedly) Ruinator is already more powerful... the fact that it is a 1H weapon (or more specifically, the fact that it can't be used with a Rag like Resolution can) is why it is appears weaker.

They should change Cloudsplitter so that when you use it you don't actually hit the target. Instead a bunch of lightning bolts hit the ground and at each spot a random male NPC spawns wearing nothing but a viking helmet, subligar, and axes. They all start beating on the mob for several seconds then warp away.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

It is still a very powerful weaponskill. Last Stand does give it a run for its money (RNGs definately like that better, or sometimes Coronach) but you'll find that lots of CORs still favor Wildfire.

Personally, I would love it if they could adjust every weapon skill so that every single one will have some sort of niche use, so we arn't always just telling ourselves to spam the same weapon skill in combat over and over. Obviously we'll always have one that's best for damage but making the rest of them all have some use would be very nice (The Warrior's Break WSs come to mind immediately, if they were improved they would see a lot more use).

Just as an example, I'll use Katana WS since that's what I'm most familiar with:

Blade: Rin- Add "Stun" Effect to the WS.
Blade: Retsu- Increase the duration of the effect.
Blade: Teki- Increase damage, add "Drown" effect.
Blade: To- Increase damage, add "Frost" effect.
Blade: Chi- Increase damage, add "Rasp" effect.
Blade: Ei- Increase damage, add "Bio" effect.
Blade: Jin- Fine as-is.
Blade: Ten- Add TP-cutting effect.
Blade: Ku- Increase the mods, make it better than Jin in low-crit situations.
Blade: Yu- Make TP mod damage instead, make current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP.
Blade: Kamu- Change fTP to 3.0+, increase current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP, make TP mod damage or crit rate.
Blade: Metsu- Lengthen aftermath and allow subtle cap break, increase fTP to 4.0.
Blade: Hi- Increase the crit % mod at various TP values. 20/35/55 like Ukko's would be nice.
Blade: Shun- decrease the attack penalty at and make the attack scale faster.

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This... I'd like to see. Don't make every WS do similar damage (however WSes that take much more time to obtain, should do more) but I'd like to see each one unique. If a WS does "bind" make it proc often and for awhile... not 3 seconds. If they aren't dishing out damage, they should be doing something useful for the party. Currently the side effects of many WSes are too weak to be of any use. It reminds me of the uselessness of elemental adjustments on armor.

I never use my Farsha for Cloudsplitter. It sadly has one main use, Reward piece for the MND on it.