The last, great hope..

With the advent of more VoidWatch, we see more content that embraces Paladin tanking. That said, I for one believe that the job needs more attention than it receives.

Two weeks ago, 3 different PLD threads were at the top of the English charts the entire week, the following Monday SCH and THF posts were addressed which had either been completely absent or were floating at the bottom.

Can we please get some feedback on the many valuable ideas that were created by the people that love and make this game great? Who here in 2004 would have gotten much from sky if it hadn't been for this job? I digress....

Let's not recreate a dependence on PLD but let's honestly improve it to make it the best it can be:

If a stat like Defense isn't effective in reducing damage, then let's make a job trait for that

If every job gets a new spell then by God then let's have everybody get one

If we need a job ability with a low recast timer based on enmity generation then let's make one!

If you support PLD and want to see this job receive the attention it deserves then LIKE this post. Help us help everyone have a fun and safe endgame experience!

Love,

Your Gallant Defenders

You're going to have to yell louder. SE can't hear you over the Dark Knights at the moment...

Joking aside it really seems SE is quietly adding dynamics that require Paladins' ability to take a hit. Subtle things like the Vitality adjustment for instance. Looks liek that's the path they are going down.

Other than that, the other issue is that EVERY FRIGGING monster now has a hate reset move for every mood it's in... I hope the new ability helps with that...

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

With the advent of more VoidWatch, we see more content that embraces Paladin tanking. That said, I for one believe that the job needs more attention than it receives.

Two weeks ago, 3 different PLD threads were at the top of the English charts the entire week, the following Monday SCH and THF posts were addressed which had either been completely absent or were floating at the bottom.

Can we please get some feedback on the many valuable ideas that were created by the people that love and make this game great? Who here in 2004 would have gotten much from sky if it hadn't been for this job? I digress....

Let's not recreate a dependence on PLD but let's honestly improve it to make it the best it can be:

If a stat like Defense isn't effective in reducing damage, then let's make a job trait for that

If every job gets a new spell then by God then let's have everybody get one

If we need a job ability with a low recast timer based on enmity generation then let's make one!

If you support PLD and want to see this job receive the attention it deserves then LIKE this post. Help us help everyone have a fun and safe endgame experience!

Love,

Your Gallant Defenders

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I have a big problem with that statment I have bolded.... I've read these forms alot and 80% of what I saw in that time peiod (the time right before bully was adjusted for the final time) was thf's qqing about there new ja or qqing about the postion of thf in general... thats hardly what I'd call "completely absent or were floating at the bottom".

.......I know you pld's may feel your getting riped off for not geting a spell this update but least you did get somthing this update where other jobs (war, mnk) did not. (On another note just as frost joked about before dark knight's have been preaching about how bad there ja is... so you might want to appreciate that as you said your getting more content where you'll be needed and your new ja isn't in the crapper like there's is)

Im not saying pld has no problems...nor am I saying you shouldn't ask for more adjustments to make those problems go away. I'm just saying you may want to think before making blanket statments belittling other job's adjustments just so you can put your favorite job in a better light. Otherwize your just hurting your case because it's just showing that you don't care about game balance just your own job's increase in effectiveness.

I did not make a blanket statement, I was trying to be brief but to clarify, THF threads were floating middle to bottom and there was no QQ about SCH at least on English forums.

Not sure why you posted really but I hope that clears it up.

What I am looking for is support for PLD getting fair treatment, especially about us being the only job not to get a spell. We didn't even pull enough weight to get a regurgitated BanishIII out of the mix. With the proper attention, PLD will be balanced and get the same benefits as other jobs each update. Help us out fellow adventurers!

Thank you so much!

And I didn't belittle, I am trying to point out the lack of attention to certain threads that were obviously being read by the forums members, but did not receive the same attention by the development team. I was pointing out imbalance in response. All I want is fairness and balance in the game and in the developers' attention.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

And I didn't belittle, I am trying to point out the lack of attention to certain threads that were obviously being read by the forums members, but did not receive the same attention by the development team. I was pointing out imbalance in response. All I want is fairness and balance in the game and in the developers' attention.

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....My point is that it's your opinion that that the developers' aren't paying attention to threads.

There is no way to really tell where the developers are paying attention... seeing as you have to take into account 2 things:

Overall game balance

JP forums and other non English forms

You can only base your "what Dev's are paying attention to" on only what is said here in the English threads and what the Dev's post that they are doing. You have no clue what people are saying in the JP and other non English threads.

on top of that you have to take into account the whole game's job balance. They are forced to try (as best as they are able) to make all jobs on an even playing field.

I don't think it's fair for you to claim that the Dev's aren't paying attention to what groups are saying... for all you know they are. Maybe there were more JP's who had the a bigger opinion in that case of the sch updates. Maybe because of job balance they had to let pld slide a little and not give them a spell this update or they thought it isn't time for them to get banish III (They have already stated before that they are on the fence on increasing pld's ability to do damage because they don't want a job to be able to do everything... so giving you banish III would counteract what they have said).

You can't claim something you don't know ie you can't claim that SE isn't paying attention to feedback... you don't know if they are or not because you can't see the big picture they can.

Based on how many times they have commented on each job (even going as far as answering general question for each and every job in this game to the player-base) they are listening on some level. If you personally think they should be paying attention to threads more that's your opinion don't state your opinion as if it's a fact because there is no way for you to know if it's true or not.

Troll much?

Stop derailing, this is a thread about supporting PLDs not about your critiques.

I still don't see the problem with PLD.

So you aren't the top choice for killing Serket? Well, how do you expect to code a game to make it impossible to kill level 60 NMs without a specific job at level 90?

So you aren't the top job for Abyssea? Well, as long as WHM can keep a WAR alive, you won't be until you out-DD a WAR, which will never happen.

It seems to me like the only complaints PLDs have are that they aren't 100% obligatory for a party's success at EVERYTHING. I suggest you swap over to PUP or some other job that has it worse so that you can enjoy the bliss of PLD again.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I still don't see the problem with PLD.

So you aren't the top choice for killing Serket? Well, how do you expect to code a game to make it impossible to kill level 60 NMs without a specific job at level 90?

So you aren't the top job for Abyssea? Well, as long as WHM can keep a WAR alive, you won't be until you out-DD a WAR, which will never happen.

It seems to me like the only complaints PLDs have are that they aren't 100% obligatory for a party's success at EVERYTHING. I suggest you swap over to PUP or some other job that has it worse so that you can enjoy the bliss of PLD again.

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Whenever Malamasala posts all that really comes of it is

"Well, someone else has more problems than you"

When that has nothing to do with anything

Let's be clear, the problem isn't PLD's lack of abilities, damage mitigation, spells, etc.; the problem is a dearth of content challenging enough to warrant using a PLD in the first place.

Most people realize this, that's why you don't see a whole lot of PLD bitch threads.

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Originally Posted by Vicious

Let's be clear, the problem isn't PLD's lack of abilities, damage mitigation, spells, etc.; the problem is a dearth of content challenging enough to warrant using a PLD in the first place.

Most people realize this, that's why you don't see a whole lot of PLD bitch threads.

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I saw about 8 on the front page of the PLD subforums.

As a PLD main (hell, PLD only for years and years), of course there is a problem with PLD. But there seems to be a problem with every job (except a select few) if you look at all the QQ on these boards. Can we please at least keep our bitching to our subforums?

Not every job is perfect for every event (except whm). PLD has -> ALWAYS <- been excluded from anything that didn't require their survivability (see Nyzul isle, salvage, exp) but try doing T3-4 VW without a PLD. The job is working as intended.

The only thing I would complain about is that you need the highest end gear to really function. This can be said of almost every tank and DD job. Without one of those precious shineys in your offhand you will probably be told to come as a different job.

I would be rallying for an easier to obtain high end shield for PLDs who don't want to fight 15 other duos trying to spawn chione or solo dynamis every day for 6 months straight. My PLD is 100% retired with near perfect gear not counting my shield and sword because my LS has Ochain and Aegis PLDs to spare. IMO.. lessen the gap between the PLD4LYFEs and the casual meat shields and the job is fine.

I tried to like, but it took me to the forum top. Guess SE doesn't want me to.

PLD is fine...if you have Ochain/Aegis.

I have no problem with SE making PLD without stronger as long as they make Ochain/Aegis stronger as well to accommodate the work put into those 2 items.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

Troll much?

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Giving opinions is trolling? By your logic your trolling everyone just by creating this thread.

Also you want on topic discussion? Fine: Pld is fine where it is.

* It's wanted for events
* It doesn't have a big problem doing what it does best in the events it's wanted ins
* There are many other jobs that ARE having an issue being wanted for any event (like SCH for example) pld does not have that issue.

Your thread title and your tone in general make it seem like pld Is a forgotten child that SE left in the dirt. That is what I don't agree with. Yes pld still has problems but this isn't the "abyssea only" days anymore so stop acting like it is.

Paladin performs phenomenally within it's niche of tanking very difficult monsters. Paladin has super-excellent methods of mitigating damage that far surpass anything available to any other job.

It's also true that such difficult monsters aren't that common, and those methods are "obtain an Ochain" and "obtain an Aegis".

I think if SE finally caves into the sanity of it's player base and makes Colorless Souls more obtainable, it will be easier for folks to perform at near-ideal levels on Paladin. I think that more difficult monsters being added over time will provide people with more opportunities to play Paladin under ideal conditions. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty confident in these things.

I don't see what adding a glut of spells and abilities to Paladin would do compared to universal changes such as the two I mentioned.

Also, most spells and abilities that would be socks-rocking for a normal Paladin would either be overwhelmingly powerful or totally pointless for an Ochain operator.

As others have mentioned, the issue is not so much with PLD itself as it with content challenging enough to warrant one. PLD is ideal for Voidwatch due to its survivability and ability to hold hate without necessarily killing the mob.

If you find yourself not using PLD, it's probably because you're opting for easy content. And if you are doing that then why not bring a WAR or MNK and kill faster?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Whenever Malamasala posts all that really comes of it is

"Well, someone else has more problems than you"

When that has nothing to do with anything

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Things are geting spicey in this topic.

Trolling about being called out as a troll....

/slowclap

This thread is about supporting PLD and discussing it's lack of attention when it's threads are on top of the charts.

We deserve to get a spell if everyone else does, don't we?

We deserve better shield that aren't relics or empyreans, don't we?

It seems the Wiz's logic is that anything that adds to PLD takes away from other jobs, and that's not the case nor am I asking for everyone else's jobs to be nerfed... I am simply asking for equal improvements across the board.

No and no. Support denied, orbital strike requested.

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We deserve to get a spell if everyone else does, don't we?

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I believe you get armors instead. I can't think of a single update that didn't add PLD/WAR/DRK armors, and in most cases they have been either good or side grades. Same with BLM/WHM/BRD/RDM/SMN armors being very good... for WHMs or BLMs. Complete trash for BRD or SMN in general.

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We deserve better shield that aren't relics or empyreans, don't we?

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I think all jobs deserve good items that aren't empys or mythics. I want a -3 perp +10 accuracy staff. Where are they? It is just silly that because one mythic has +30 accuracy and -6 perpetuation, I can't get one half as good. I'd almost be able to accept it if it had been the empy... but mythic with 30k alexandrite requirement? For the only staff SE did right? Why not try and sell me gold ingots in real life, I have about as big chance at affording those.

As you can see, I support PLD in all questions that go for all jobs. But I don't see them in need of anything specific to make just them the gods of vanadiel.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

Trolling about being called out as a troll....

/slowclap

This thread is about supporting PLD and discussing it's lack of attention when it's threads are on top of the charts.

We deserve to get a spell if everyone else does, don't we?

We deserve better shield that aren't relics or empyreans, don't we?

It seems the Wiz's logic is that anything that adds to PLD takes away from other jobs, and that's not the case nor am I asking for everyone else's jobs to be nerfed... I am simply asking for equal improvements across the board.

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...I don't think you know what the word "trolling" means but I'll leave that point alone.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

It seems the Wiz's logic is that anything that adds to PLD takes away from other jobs

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When did I ever say or imply that? In every single post I've made in this thread I've said pld has problems that should be addressed.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

We deserve to get a spell if everyone else does, don't we?

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...your free to argue this point all you want. Personally I don't know why you didn't get a spell nor do I see the harm in it.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

We deserve better shield that aren't relics or empyreans, don't we?

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Again I don't see the problem with this... then again SE might for whatever reason but idk what's in there heads.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

I am simply asking for equal improvements across the board.

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If SE gave an equal improvement to every single job for every update then the jobs would be more imbalanced then they already are. (example if this was followed... war and mnk would have gotten new skills this update... and I'm pretty sure 80% of the player-base consider those two jobs OP already so that would hurt job balance even more)

What you consider equal SE could consider unequal in the long run. You have to see both sides of the issue.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

If a stat like Defense isn't effective in reducing damage, then let's make a job trait for that

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PLD already takes the least damage of any job but that's not the problem.

Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.

Perhaps I was misjudging you and your response was emotional to begin with, maybe something I said touched a nerve, like mentioning SCH? I don't know, but my aim is not to take attention away from other people but to add attention to us. And I can appreciate your opinions but they were not constructive and this thread is about positivity and support.

We do need a spell, and a good tanking based one, like DRK got a good offensive one, in concept at least.

We also could use a better trait than a boost to defense which at this time is completely useless. Example: if defense did anything then using counter stance would be dangerous. It's not, so point made, Defense Bonus is useless.

I appreciate everyone's support and keep LIKEing this thread! We are slowing making it to the top of the charts again my fellow adventurers!

Thank you all m(_ _)m

So people are only allowed to post in this thread if they agree with you?

The only reason these PLD RDM and DRK threads stay at the top of the list is because they are points of contention. Usually someone in them has terrible ideas and a back and forth ensues keeping the views and post rolling in. PLD stays at the top because a large group of players disagree that the job really needs that much fixing.

I wholly agree PLDs need more than they are getting.

That doesn't mean I agree with the OP's solutions; but I do agree that PLD still needs work to be the best tank as it should be.

Nobody has to agree with me, but as per the TOS, derailing a thread is grounds for termination of the privilege to use these forums. And people posting random opinions in a thread whose sole purpose is to rally support for PLD, is derailing.

That's all I am saying. Your opinions might be more valuable in a thread about discussing worthless opinions, maybe you might make a thread about that?

Thanks,

Management.

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And people posting random opinions in a thread whose sole purpose is to rally support for PLD, is derailing.

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Sure, but thinking that PLD needs support in the first place is an opinion, as well. Forums are just that; a forum for discussion. If someone disagrees with your opinion on the matter, they are more than welcome to post as such. Disagreeing with the OP is not derailing; changing the entire subject to, say, the finer points of taco consumption, that is derailing.

Furthermore, you think his opinion is worthless? Given that everyone's opinions are exactly equal in worth, that makes yours worthless as well.

Finally, you aren't the management. Starting a thread doesn't give you some special rights over it; as soon as you post, it's public. Leave the finger-waving to the real management, the moderators.

I did not post an opinion, I posted a request for support from fellow adventurers about a specific job that I feel strongly about and I believe others also feel strongly about so that our joint requests would be heard.

Now giving me your opinion about this other guy's opinion, those 2 opinions are equally worthless and now YOU are derailing the thread by criticizing something that you don't even care about, which is the OP.

Do you support PLD, yes or no? If yes click LIKE, if no, go away.

I do not understand how the kids of today can even get through school with critical thinking skills that rival a trained monkey. That was an opinion, why don't you go make a critical thinking thread for you and all the trolls to debate in so you can feel important for a change.

Yes: LIKE, No: <See you again!> <Thank you!> Many thanks to everyone that actually understands what this thread is about, and many prayers for the weak minded that don't.

You act like you actually understand your job which it is apparent that you do not. People weren't trying to derail your thread, but rather tell you the truth. The truth is you can add as much to PLD as you want, but if it's got no reason to be in the battlefield then it's going to stay in the Mog House. You try to insult people by saying that they can't think, but you're the one who really isn't looking at the whole picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

With the advent of more VoidWatch, we see more content that embraces Paladin tanking. That said, I for one believe that the job needs more attention than it receives.

Two weeks ago, 3 different PLD threads were at the top of the English charts the entire week, the following Monday SCH and THF posts were addressed which had either been completely absent or were floating at the bottom.

Can we please get some feedback on the many valuable ideas that were created by the people that love and make this game great? Who here in 2004 would have gotten much from sky if it hadn't been for this job? I digress....

Let's not recreate a dependence on PLD but let's honestly improve it to make it the best it can be:

If a stat like Defense isn't effective in reducing damage, then let's make a job trait for that

If every job gets a new spell then by God then let's have everybody get one

If we need a job ability with a low recast timer based on enmity generation then let's make one!

If you support PLD and want to see this job receive the attention it deserves then LIKE this post. Help us help everyone have a fun and safe endgame experience!

Love,

Your Gallant Defenders

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The thing is with different dynamics different party setups work. When it comes to abyssea because of atmas jobs with DD potential will outshine PLD because they have the HP to stay alive and mages have the MP to keep the DD alive. Outside of abyssea which is where the game is heading back to PLD's are showing that they are indeed balanced for the game. In abyssea their defensive capabilities can be used against foes and take reduced damage but since everyone can have high HP the DD that take heavy hits aren't as big of a burden as they are outside.

I tried voidwatch for the first time today did it with 7 and with the somewhat lack of info on the web about the event it is pretty hard to setup the proper dynamic to tackle it. For that event I do wish there was a PLD around to help out but they are MIA atm, it's almost getting toa point where I'm kinda tempted to lv PLD cause I know how useful they'd be in voidwatch. A NIN can only go so far in that event it's easy to tell that there are a lot of shadow wiping moves as well as go through shadow moves to worry about it does make it hard for NIN to hold their own in certain dynamics. Even with acc gear and food when attempting the puk it was a whiff fest the fight reminded me of the ZNM against the puk for the garuda gear.

Just reading up on voidwatch the first tier of monsters is just like abyssea without the atmas lol. like honestly if you try abyssea without any atmas against those same mob types you would prolly see PLD holding their own better since they naturally have better defensive capabilities then all other jobs.

If a true adjustment had to take place it would be a true balanced concept behind the defense modifier on dmg taken for all jobs.Sure for some jobs it doesn't look like they are getting much this update and yes it is kinda odd being that's it's near the final cap. You would think every job would see some sort of update even if it is a WS at 95 which would be nice.

Overall though each job does have their purpose based on each situation you can't expect to be good at every single mob otherwise that would just be imbalanced. In a sense PLD is good against every single mob it's just that when it comes down to abyssea their defensive capabilities are to high and unnecessary for the task at hand which is purely to kill the mob as fast as possible once you get the proc. For the most part PLD can't really do that. But with everything PLD has to offer they are good as they are and ye know at least PLD is getting a JA this update XD WAR/MNK are getting jack meanwhile even SAM is getting an update even after the one they just got in the mini-update lol.

Though let's not forget the new dynamic of VU. It's not just this main update we're getting but their's also the mini-update to look forward to so while jobs might not be getting the updates they may desire, they may get ability/trait or even magic adjustments within the month of october lol.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...Version-Update

Look how much was added then, <_< SAM even got another JA lol. Man SAM has been getting a lot of buffs lately not to go off tangent XD th0ough I guess I am a tad bitter that WAR isn't getting anything new to play with. Sure they may have good offensive abilities but still that's 5 levels with the only change being combat skill least PLD has that shield JA which could find itself handy in certain situations lol.

But ya there's always the next update and if that update showed anything it's that they will make a wide range of job adjustments to help balance out all the jobs and give every job something to play with lol.

If anything, this shit is counterproductive to your cause, as anyone with any sense whatsoever is fully aware that the problem facing PLD today is how little it is needed outside of Voidwatch; if you get enough support for this nonsense that the devs actually get distracted from fixing the real problem, you are only doing PLD a disservice.

But hey, the kids down the street got shiny new toys, so I guess you're going to whine until you get some too, eh?

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

I did not post an opinion, I posted a request for support from fellow adventurers about a specific job that I feel strongly about and I believe others also feel strongly about so that our joint requests would be heard.

Now giving me your opinion about this other guy's opinion, those 2 opinions are equally worthless and now YOU are derailing the thread by criticizing something that you don't even care about, which is the OP.

Do you support PLD, yes or no? If yes click LIKE, if no, go away.

I do not understand how the kids of today can even get through school with critical thinking skills that rival a trained monkey. That was an opinion, why don't you go make a critical thinking thread for you and all the trolls to debate in so you can feel important for a change.

Yes: LIKE, No: <See you again!> <Thank you!> Many thanks to everyone that actually understands what this thread is about, and many prayers for the weak minded that don't.

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Like a solid 90% of this community you still have no idea what a troll is. Start a thread based on a debatable topic and you are going to get replies from both sides of the argument if you ask for them or not. This is a forum not a blog.

Anyone know this guy in game? Sounds like a bundle of joy.

Edit: lol, I remember this guy...was in VS with him on Midgard. The running joke was "Why is he working on Excal, its not like he's even allowed to come on PLD anyway..."

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

I did not post an opinion

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Yes you did. You're of the opinion that pld needs fixing one way or another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

Do you support PLD, yes or no? If yes click LIKE, if no, go away.

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Yes I support pld. But I don't agree with your opinions regarding the job. So no, I won't click like, and I'm not going away, why should I, everyone has an equal right to post on this forum.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community

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You mean such as this?:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

I do not understand how the kids of today can even get through school with critical thinking skills that rival a trained monkey. That was an opinion, why don't you go make a critical thinking thread for you and all the trolls to debate in so you can feel important for a change.

Yes: LIKE, No: <See you again!> <Thank you!> Many thanks to everyone that actually understands what this thread is about, and many prayers for the weak minded that don't.

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No, those are insults. And uh I'm not from Midgard, I am in a LS that's full of people from there now.

The reason I called this the last great hope was because I am done with this forum and all the people that just endlessly want to argue and debate where there is no room for debate.

I posted a call to action, I put suggestions to encourage people that had made similar attempts to have their ideas seen but had failed.

To continue to debate about whether PLD is good or bad, in need of this or that, deserving of spells or not, is completely not the point. That's why I didn't post "Derp, Hey guys, I think PLD needs fixings, what do you think?"

Because honestly I DON'T GIVE A F___ WHAT YOU THINK.

Good bye.

Emotional enough for ya trolls?

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

The reason I called this the last great hope was because I am done with this forum and all the people that just endlessly want to argue and debate where there is no room for debate.

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The reason many people are having problems with your thread is because of your attitude like what I have bolded. You seem to think everything you say are irrefutable facts that can't be debated.

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Originally Posted by AldielQuetz

Good bye.

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I hope you were being serious here because honestly It doesn't seem like these forums are right for you. (Just be be clear this last statement I'm 100% serious about... I don't want you to take this as trolling just like you have for everything else I've said)

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Do you support PLD, yes or no? If yes click LIKE, if no, go away.

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While I supported the premise of this thread (emphasized for people who say I disagree with everything), some people do feel that PLD is just fine. I'm not one of them, but you can't just tell people not to post because they don't feel the same way as you. As Darkwizardzin said, your topic doesn't contain irrefutable facts. It contains opinions. Some people might disagree with those opinions.

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Emotional enough for ya trolls?

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Your tears are delicious.