A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

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Originally Posted by WoW

As expected, lol.

Food is not the sole answer for players (Whom are stronger than pets), hence it was premature to believe that some extra acc would solve anything; our problems are much deeper than one stat. Even if the food granted pretty decent hit-rate, bst jugs in particular do crap damage, so then what? Would it have been a start? No. A start means that pets are still an unfinished product thus need more adjustments, aka we would still be ineffective until the process is complete. We just need a update which address all of our issues; not just one stat.

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Good luck getting SE to ever implement a full job fix in a single update rather than doing it in multiple updates over the course of months.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Good luck getting SE to ever implement a full job fix in a single update rather than doing it in multiple updates over the course of months.

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They do not have to; I will just hover around this thread grinning to myself^^

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Originally Posted by WoW

They do not have to; I will just hover around this thread grinning to myself^^

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Well my point was more or less that no update will ever happen that fixes a job in 1 shot. We made progress, for the first time ever there's a food type that buffs not only the user, but their pet as well. While you may not see this as large or important, the fact pets can now hit a much higher hit rate on difficult targets means that if we do get stronger it'll mean something now, before they could've buffed pet DMG into obscene levels but the fact we couldn't hit a thing wouldn't have made a difference. You can argue either way little changes, but be that the case or not a change happened, and provided they continue to look into it there's a chance for a good outcome. Your original response after the update though seems more like a matter of saying "Ha, I told you Accuracy wouldn't do much." rather than a "Hey, we got an update, now that we can hit how about raising our damage?" but perhaps it's just me.

Yeah I am happy they at least began to address the issues we have. We also need to see a lot of gear that gives our pet stats that don't gimp the master (making us sacrifice stats to have stats on our pets) - I've seen a commitment for that - so I hope to see progress. Otherwise, overall they need to decide a vision for each job in a role and work to make us usable in that role. If it is heavy DD our output when master and pet are working needs to be similar to other heavy DDs. If it is support DD, our support needs to be actually meaningful. If it is ranged DD, stop making us weaker just because we have range. If it is support, don't punish us for using support skills, and make the support balanced and useful. If it is enfeebling - let our enfeebles make a difference. If we are tanks, give us hate tools and damage mitigation tools.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

Well my point was more or less that no update will ever happen that fixes a job in 1 shot. We made progress, for the first time ever there's a food type that buffs not only the user, but their pet as well. While you may not see this as large or important, the fact pets can now hit a much higher hit rate on difficult targets means that if we do get stronger it'll mean something now, before they could've buffed pet DMG into obscene levels but the fact we couldn't hit a thing wouldn't have made a difference. You can argue either way little changes, but be that the case or not a change happened, and provided they continue to look into it there's a chance for a good outcome. Your original response after the update though seems more like a matter of saying "Ha, I told you Accuracy wouldn't do much." rather than a "Hey, we got an update, now that we can hit how about raising our damage?" but perhaps it's just me.

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Actually, the food is pretty sub-par from what I am hearing and also; no job can be fixed in one-shot? Hmmm, is eleven years long enough for you? I hope you are enjoying the "progress" (baby steps), hopefully you get an invite when the job is finally fixed; whenever that is^^

I stated that this food will change nothing; as Donq alluded to, we still need more for pet jobs to become useful. Also, sure the food is progress, technically, however, Donq stated that his pet still had a sub-par hit-rate with superb gear. Sure it is progress, I mean, they can add 1% acc to all pets and that will equate to "progress," but is that enough? We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet. If you are happy with the progress, then that's cool, however your pet is an unfinished product until this thread dies.

And yes, I did tell you guys so, and? I was right, so what?

I am a realist, I call it like I see it; sorry for not putting on a facade.

"The update was lovely" hows that?^^

You appear to feel some type of way because I am not happy with the update. Some were not happy with the ninja throwing announcement today, but i was, did I criticize them? Nah, different strokes, different folks man, it is not that serious.

Edit: Also, you can argue with me all you want to brah, but our pets still suck. Until this thread dies, you are contributing to my point; pets are an unfinished product.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Actually, the food is pretty sub-par from what I am hearing and also; no job can be fixed in one-shot? Hmmm, is eleven years long enough for you? I hope you are enjoying the "progress" (baby steps), hopefully you get an invite when the job is finally fixed; whenever that is^^

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I wouldn't say it's sub-par. From what I gather the Accuracy food is as potent as Sushi is, it's just the same for your pet. While that means a lot in one way it means nothing in another, this food balances the difference between a DD eating food and a pet since now both will have food effects, that doesn't change the fact however that pets still have no BRD songs or rolls to aid them. Fighting AAs on difficult for instance a player is normally stacking either a nice bit of Accuracy gear or they're getting a song/roll to help them hit that Accuracy cap, pets have food but they don't have that option still. As for baby steps, there's a difference between steps when we're moving forward and when we're at a stand still. You can't count 11 years when the majority of the time pet jobs have been greatly ignored, we're seeing at least some intent on improvements finally.

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I stated that this food will change nothing; as Donq alluded to, we still need more for pet jobs to become useful. Also, sure the food is progress, technically, however, Donq stated that his pet still had a sub-par hit-rate with superb gear. Sure it is progress, I mean, they can add 1% acc to all pets and that will equate to "progress," but is that enough? We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet. If you are happy with the progress, then that's cool, however your pet is an unfinished product until this thread dies.

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I completely agree, it is unfinished. I wasn't saying that the food fixed all of our issues or anything of the sort, I was only saying that treating this as though it were nothing isn't really right or fair either. It helped, it's a step in the right direction to let us buff our pets in this way. If they did the same kinda thing with rolls and songs, letting our songs hit our pets and same with rolls, you'd see BST, PUP, and SMN getting massive boosts.

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And yes, I did tell you guys so, and? I was right, so what?

I am a realist, I call it like I see it; sorry for not putting on a facade.

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You say you were right but right about what? You kept saying it wouldn't change anything from what I saw, but that's not true. Yesterday, I could go PUP with optimum gear and my Automaton would have a floored hit rate on Difficult, today I can go and it will actually hit the mob. Will it be the best DD ever or have a capped hit rate? No, but it's not nearly as bad as yesterday, which means in the end today's update did help and it did make progress.

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You appear to feel some type of way because I am not happy with the update. Some were not happy with the ninja throwing announcement today, but i was, did I criticize them? Nah, different strokes, different folks man, it is not that serious.

Edit: Also, you can argue with me all you want to brah, but our pets still suck. Until this thread dies, you are contributing to my point; pets are an unfinished product.

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I only think you aren't happy with the update because you seem like you think it didn't do a thing, but it did, even if it's not a 100% fix it's something more than we had before and it's probably the single largest out of the way buff I can think about for pet jobs in quite some time. All the same I do agree they're unfinished, and I mean to contribute to that point, I just don't agree with the viewpoint of this update having done nothing or very little, rather I think it's a good sign they're showing more attention to broken jobs. As of late the team working on the game has been doing a lot of things differently than in the past such as making the game more accessible and adding so many things that are 'quality of life' that it's amazing by compare to the amount of rejection we got on the exact same ideas only a year or 2 ago. When I say I'm looking at this as a sign of change I don't mean that out of the last 11 years I think just finally out of no where this means something, I mean in general the game and it's direction has been changing, now they're talking about adding more pet gear and they did this pet food update, we've only 2 foods for now, the future can hold a ton more than that which we've just gotten. I'm personally giving it a bit of time, they've rejuvenated faith in me to a good extent, but I won't lie I could be easily looking too far into it and we could end up with hardly anything better than this. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, but in either case, the way I think you come across in your posts is that this meant nothing, and I quite frankly disagree to a large extent, that's all.

Hm. I'm not sure what to think of the food. There doesn't seem to be any available on my server yet, and I'm not sure what content besides solo that I will be able to use it on. (yay for being able to take down a reive faster? *shrugs*)
I guess with the new Mog Wardrobe, I have no excuse to not finish leveling my cooking skill now that I have the space! :p
It's a small step, as Demonjustin says. Maybe with the pet gear they've promised it will turn out to be a big boost. But like Olor says, we need gear that doesn't gimp the master. We all agree that pets need more damage and defense, especially automatons and wyverns.
DRGs have really got the short end of the stick, having to wait 20min to recall a pet that does hardly anything on endgame content.
But hey did you notice the new Pratik ring, for BST PUP and DRG? That's kind of nice.

I tried out the attack food, its hella expensive currently... there wasn't a very noticeable difference - pet still doing way less damage than me, but something is better than nothing. Pets need to receive buffs, not buffs that only affect pets (useless) but the same buffs other party members get. Food is a start, but it can't be the end.

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Originally Posted by Demonjustin

I wouldn't say it's sub-par. From what I gather the Accuracy food is as potent as Sushi is, it's just the same for your pet. While that means a lot in one way it means nothing in another, this food balances the difference between a DD eating food and a pet since now both will have food effects, that doesn't change the fact however that pets still have no BRD songs or rolls to aid them. Fighting AAs on difficult for instance a player is normally stacking either a nice bit of Accuracy gear or they're getting a song/roll to help them hit that Accuracy cap, pets have food but they don't have that option still. As for baby steps, there's a difference between steps when we're moving forward and when we're at a stand still. You can't count 11 years when the majority of the time pet jobs have been greatly ignored, we're seeing at least some intent on improvements finally.

I completely agree, it is unfinished. I wasn't saying that the food fixed all of our issues or anything of the sort, I was only saying that treating this as though it were nothing isn't really right or fair either. It helped, it's a step in the right direction to let us buff our pets in this way. If they did the same kinda thing with rolls and songs, letting our songs hit our pets and same with rolls, you'd see BST, PUP, and SMN getting massive boosts.

You say you were right but right about what? You kept saying it wouldn't change anything from what I saw, but that's not true. Yesterday, I could go PUP with optimum gear and my Automaton would have a floored hit rate on Difficult, today I can go and it will actually hit the mob. Will it be the best DD ever or have a capped hit rate? No, but it's not nearly as bad as yesterday, which means in the end today's update did help and it did make progress.

I only think you aren't happy with the update because you seem like you think it didn't do a thing, but it did, even if it's not a 100% fix it's something more than we had before and it's probably the single largest out of the way buff I can think about for pet jobs in quite some time. All the same I do agree they're unfinished, and I mean to contribute to that point, I just don't agree with the viewpoint of this update having done nothing or very little, rather I think it's a good sign they're showing more attention to broken jobs. As of late the team working on the game has been doing a lot of things differently than in the past such as making the game more accessible and adding so many things that are 'quality of life' that it's amazing by compare to the amount of rejection we got on the exact same ideas only a year or 2 ago. When I say I'm looking at this as a sign of change I don't mean that out of the last 11 years I think just finally out of no where this means something, I mean in general the game and it's direction has been changing, now they're talking about adding more pet gear and they did this pet food update, we've only 2 foods for now, the future can hold a ton more than that which we've just gotten. I'm personally giving it a bit of time, they've rejuvenated faith in me to a good extent, but I won't lie I could be easily looking too far into it and we could end up with hardly anything better than this. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, but in either case, the way I think you come across in your posts is that this meant nothing, and I quite frankly disagree to a large extent, that's all.

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Being able to hit the mob and a decent hit rate are two completely different scenarios. Question Justin, does the food the food allow you to hit-comfortably? Is your pet effective? You keep mentioning progress; meanwhile pld, mnk, sam, sch, bard, cor, and rng are progressing through the game while you wait for progress. You appear to like the progress, correct? It is something right? A start; well then, there is nothing for you to complain about because you are completely happy/understand the drawn out process as opposed to an single update. It only takes them a single update to nerf a job, thus it should only take them a single update to vastly improved their efficacy. It only takes them a single update to release expansion content with new jobs; but if you are happy with the process good for you; should not see any complaints on your part, because you completely understand the process and the pet food allows you to hit difficult content.

Now me? I am unhappy with the process thus I will complain. I expect every job to be tweaked during XI's life-time, however, when have bst ever been effective in end-game/difficult content? Ill say it has been XI years. The draw backs of a long process are unusable jobs for an extended period of time; you are fine with this I guess "Shrugs"

Is the new pet food affecting ranged accuracy and ranged attack as well for automatons?

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Originally Posted by Jinzha

Is the new pet food affecting ranged accuracy and ranged attack as well for automatons?

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According to ffxiah, yes.

On a brighter note; the new job point category for bst could be pretty neat; A total of +20% ready move dmg during unleash iirc. I use this ability often, nice addition.

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

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Originally Posted by WoW

We can get technically all night long, but this progress does not get you party invites; otherwise this thread will die and ppl would be praising the food, have not seen one positive comment yet.

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The bolded is really a big issue with the outlook pet job obsessed players have. I've got pet jobs, have plenty of friend's with pet jobs. They have their uses, and when they're useful, it's fun. The problem with that outlook that "SE hasn't made us good enough to party!" is really a lack of willingness of the player base. Why bring a Bst when they can bring a DD that's more straight to the point, toss on a 119 weapon, have solid gear, and the JA/JTs take care of the rest. Put someone who's capable of pushing a WS macro every few seconds behind the keyboard and you've got a grade B+ at least DD.

I'm not going to say there's nothing wrong with pet jobs, they have their issues. But unless SE buffs you to the point that you're stronger than other DD jobs, you won't be taken to content. PUGs as a whole operate, generally, off "what setup can we do that has the best chance of success?" We've all seen it, when a PUG is 5/6 looking for that one certain job, maybe it's a Rng, Pld, Brd, Whm, etc. One of the "needed" jobs. What about when it's a melee DD? There's a reason they're not looking for a job they know nothing about, that takes more gear/skill to make work, and that's risk. Only way to make that risk worth taking is to make pet jobs stronger than other jobs that bring less risk. And if that happens, what is the point to those jobs? At least pet jobs have a solo/too dangerous for players niche that works to a degree.

And for what it's worth, a properly geared and played Bst, Pup, or Smn does fine in D content, I can't comment on VD. Do they do fine compared to a top end job? No, but they do enough to pull their own weight, and unless the majority of your group is riding along for tag alongs, that's all that needed.

Pretty sure Demon's comment was fairly positive as well, pet jobs have been getting some love lately.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

The bolded is really a big issue with the outlook pet job obsessed players have. I've got pet jobs, have plenty of friend's with pet jobs. They have their uses, and when they're useful, it's fun. The problem with that outlook that "SE hasn't made us good enough to party!" is really a lack of willingness of the player base. Why bring a Bst when they can bring a DD that's more straight to the point, toss on a 119 weapon, have solid gear, and the JA/JTs take care of the rest. Put someone who's capable of pushing a WS macro every few seconds behind the keyboard and you've got a grade B+ at least DD.

I'm not going to say there's nothing wrong with pet jobs, they have their issues. But unless SE buffs you to the point that you're stronger than other DD jobs, you won't be taken to content. PUGs as a whole operate, generally, off "what setup can we do that has the best chance of success?" We've all seen it, when a PUG is 5/6 looking for that one certain job, maybe it's a Rng, Pld, Brd, Whm, etc. One of the "needed" jobs. What about when it's a melee DD? There's a reason they're not looking for a job they know nothing about, that takes more gear/skill to make work, and that's risk. Only way to make that risk worth taking is to make pet jobs stronger than other jobs that bring less risk. And if that happens, what is the point to those jobs? At least pet jobs have a solo/too dangerous for players niche that works to a degree.

And for what it's worth, a properly geared and played Bst, Pup, or Smn does fine in D content, I can't comment on VD. Do they do fine compared to a top end job? No, but they do enough to pull their own weight, and unless the majority of your group is riding along for tag alongs, that's all that needed.

Pretty sure Demon's comment was fairly positive as well, pet jobs have been getting some love lately.

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Lets see, you clearly stated that it is a lack of willingness of the player base, however, you also stated that bst do not compare to "high end jobs' this is the point. Why would anyone invite a lesser dd unless they want a challange. You and Justin are arguing just to argue; even SE acknowledge that this situation needs/will be monitored, hence something is wrong. So the developers noted that this was a issue, the pet community view it as an issue, but you and Justin do not; hmmm.

Devil's advocate: A person who advocates an opposing or unpopular view, often for the sake of argument.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

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^^Boom; could not have said it better myself; speed it up please.

Seriously, what is a perfect update? Will SE not adjust jobs in the future anyway? All we are asking for is a usable job; but the devil's advocates will debate this to the ends of the earth for the heck of it.

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Originally Posted by Rwolf

I do agree that the dev team should know better that amount of accuracy and attack wouldn't have done much. When Delve came out and they added Alternator, I thought they were finally starting to understand just how much in strides pet jobs need. While they are making small improvements, with some haste there, and accuracy/attack there. They really need to speed it up. I feel like they are being dramatically overly cautious on pets in this fear that pet jobs will become too overpowered. While that fear is legitimate, I just don't see how hard it is to have the battle team actually sit down on a test server and parse data from different damage dealers against pets in difficult to very difficult content and adjust accordingly.

I don't think anyone is asking for perfect in one update, but to have several pet related updates (adding attributes adjusted from main weapon/ammo, increasing acc/atk/etc, pet haste on more equipment, master/pet food) and still have such a large margin to cover for pet jobs to compare to other damage dealers in difficult content is disheartening. I say that as constructive criticism and not to be condescending.

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they cant collect data from a game, when they dont understand how the players use the game mechanics/play this game. there are some examples how they screwed/skewed things up:
- insane m.eva and magic dmg taken on hardmode mission battles D+
- insane m.eva on lvl 126 mobs in the woh gates area
- no afterthought to magic based WS damage, when ilvl base weapons + were released
- no afterthought on how to base mob damage dealt around player HP (race jobs discrepancy etc) (high to you, we will only use monk because it has such a large HP Pool..., luckily this has easened a bit)
- enfeebling magic
- pet damage taken against any realy hard content
- the neverending enmity issue
etc.
the list goes on

They do know how their game works, but sometimes you just hold your head and think what the idea was behind some stuff... i mean the "fixed" enmity (on adoulin release) just to release 4 weeks later ilvl 110/119 weapon to put it right back to the state it was lol. Sometimes you just ask yourself whats the point behind some stuff.

I don't understand with the food why not go ahead and give pet acc. and attack and give master choice of the acc bonus or attack depending on food.

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Originally Posted by Railer

I don't understand with the food why not go ahead and give pet acc. and attack and give master choice of the acc bonus or attack depending on food.

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Because a pet that could hit, but not like a wet paper bag would be OVERPOWERED. I mean, if our pets did even half the damage of a MNK no one would ever want a monk again, despite the fact that MNK is about a billion times better, can be cured (not on timer), buffed, pop formless strikes etc etc.

It's the same old nonsense. Honestly some food is better than nothing, but considering players get 3 songs, maybe a couple rolls, protect, shell, as many cures as whm can pump out, haste on top of haste, cure skin, momentum bonuses (why don't pets get these) etc. - this is a pitiful drop in the bucket. Making us choose between being able to hit anything at all or being able to hit anything for an amount that is worthwhile is crummy.

They just need to let pets get buffs. Until then BST (speaking of my own job, but other jobs as well) is screwed forever because half of our damage potential is unbuffable, in max haste situations with massive debilitating AOEs and no way to get timely cures.

DEAR SE: WHY DO YOU HATE PET JOBS? WHAT IS SO SCARY ABOUT LETTING US BE EQUAL TO OTHER DDs?

No other MMO treats pet jobs like a red-headed step child that can't be trusted not to eat their siblings for breakfast. Just fix the jobs already, getting really annoyed. Especially since now everyone can solo almost everything with their trust army - pet jobs don't even have a crappy little itty bitty pitiful niche anymore.

BUMP

I'd like to point out my BST is still not welcome in modern content... so when we getting a real boost for pet jobs? The food didn't cut it.

^^I only use bst to farm in Salvage; quit that job recently. I realized that our issues may be much deeper than food, rather, the actual mechanics may be flawed. I mentioned this in the bst thread, but the XIV producer doubts they will release a wyvern pet for dragoons due to the sacrifice in damage. Perhaps they have learned from past mistakes. Realistically, how can a dd whom is weaker than non-pet dd individually shine on harder content? They will always be at a disadvantage; not even going to mention the pet whom is weaker than the master.

If bst never rises, XI will still get subs; not really going to affect their profits. SE made an error on the pet/master dd jobs, fine, lets learn from our mistakes and never release another one. Just my opinion/2 cents.

Really WoW? I like that attitude. It can't be fixed, so let's just give up?

I know the food wasn't super amazing, but it did help, and it's a start, I will give SE that. In the meantime, stop telling yourself you're completely useless- And if it's not you, but your "friends" saying that... Find new friends.

I also take offense to the claim that Dortwin is a bad pet. Quite the opposite, really. Have you tried Unleash > Whirl Claws on hordes of weak enemies, or Foot Kick in say, Morimar Delve? I've learned to respect this rabbit in recent days and grab up Verboshrooms as they appear.

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Originally Posted by Leonardus

Really WoW? I like that attitude. It can't be fixed, so let's just give up?

I know the food wasn't super amazing, but it did help, and it's a start, I will give SE that. In the meantime, stop telling yourself you're completely useless- And if it's not you, but your "friends" saying that... Find new friends.

I also take offense to the claim that Dortwin is a bad pet. Quite the opposite, really. Have you tried Unleash > Whirl Claws on hordes of weak enemies, or Foot Kick in say, Morimar Delve? I've learned to respect this rabbit in recent days and grab up Verboshrooms as they appear.

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It is not my game, if it was, I would have faith in myself to correct things, but 11 years of depending on someone else gets tiring.

I will admit, bst pets are awesome on weaker content; not sure droopy can do much on lvl 128 content, never tried it, could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Edit: I will play bst main when they release decent dd pets; how do you release a vanity frog over a more serviceable aquan, orobon? Or another mandy over a sabotender? A razz (Barreling smash was most likely gonna be removed, so why bother) over a opo or sheep esque pet with zerk? A chapuli over a scorpion? Did they really believe a chapuli would out dd a scorpion? or any of the aforementioned pets for that matter? Things like this that are so obvious causes me to lose faith in bst's future.

The uphill battle for at least BST and PUP is that if you make them as useful as a war and mnk(their closest equals, I guess)then that would inevitably mean their pets would steamroll over certain kinds of content, so much so you could nearly or completely go AFK and come back to a win and drops. You can't just boost the masters to war/mnk levels because then everyone would just use BST/PUP because, "same as war/mnk but better with pets!" So you gotta have that difference in character DPS so the pets can even things up....except on hard content.

THEN, you can't just increase pet strength to withstand high level content because they would just steamroll low level content to the point that you just AFK and come back to free stuff. It's already the case on many old school encounters.

So, what in the eff do we do? Give us bit by bit over the years to make this fact of FFXI life easier, that's what. BST was never going to see justice to begin with because SE is content with letting pet jobs be the odd men out. But that doesn't mean it's too late to fix things with our skeleton ffxi crew. For starters, heck it might even be the case already and hasn't mattered for jack, I have been gone awhile and not entirely in the know of current BST adoulin areas, but they could start fixing BST and PUP by giving them incredibly strong pets for specific areas only where they are required, i.e. can only be summoned in blank zone or during blank event. The fears of overpoweredawesomeness are put to rest, pet jobs are equals with other DD, pets can be worth a damn and not be utterly destroyed in a blink of an eye just because they need to stay weak for fafnir/byakko/odin/whatever 2006-2011ish encounters, and people just might go, "ya know, BST/PUP ain't so effing bad anymore, sure we'll take you with us"

I don't see any other way this is going down. It's either that, or continue to give us bit by bit, year after year, to make up for getting the shaft. Because you know SE isn't about to make it a possibility where a BST can engage a NM(that "matters") and afk and come back later to new loot. It's just not going to happen.

18 pages (@ 20 posts/page) and still not much of a result =\

I still don't understand why they can't make pets work like in any other MMO in existence and let them be affected by everything/almost everything instead of needing dedicated special effects just for them. It creates the very obvious problem, which we've run into, where the pet's power does not grow on the same scaling rate as the player himself (Even on SMN, where pre-audolin shattersoul was pushing blood pact damage in some circumstances...) therefore causing the pet jobs to decrease in power as the power of gear and effects rise.

In FFXIV, summoner's pets are affected by every buff under the sun (except protect for some reason), can be cured by anyone, take 10% damage from most AoE effects, and there is no outpouring of QQ of pets being OP. The damage of pet and master was carefully balanced and does not get out of line as stats increase, as the pet's stats are based on the master's.

It's simple, it's clean, it works. (That being said, FFXI's smn has much more of a coolness factor due to a currently greater variety of pets and their appearance, but design wise are more flawed)

It really makes me wonder if at any point in the game's development that the devs actually went and measured master+pet's DPS for all pet jobs and compared that to the other jobs. That's all it takes to see the problem. Being able to solo effectively doesn't mean that pet jobs should be less effective in endgame content than other jobs.

As far as the food: While it's a nice thing, there shouldn't be special food to buff the pets. All pets should simply gain whatever the master gains from their meal.

Well all buffs but proshell and echo. Sorry had to nitpick lol. I wouldn't care if pet jobs could face roll on older content. It's old and at the rate they are going with allowing us to use trusts on this or that event everyone else will be able to go and do the same. Bringing out your pet in the hardest content shouldn't feel like you're bringing a lv 30 to endgame content.

So many likes for all the above posts.
I'm not seeing the new foods much on the AH, in fact I haven't been able to get my hands on the att food at all. I haven't had a reason really to even try out the acc food, afraid to waste the few stacks I have on lolsolo content. And skilling up crafting is just damn boring.
I've struggled to improve my COR for events, all the while wishing that I could stomp things on PUP or DRG instead.
Valefor's population keeps dropping. Shouts only want RNG PLD WHM BRD. I don't feel motivated to collect sparks or reforge armor for jobs that aren't used for anything. Every month I contemplate quitting out of boredom and frustration. Please SE, give us some job balance to revitalize the game.

yeah for how cheap the ingredients are, crafters are really gouging on the attack food as far as I can tell. I bought 1 NQ peice and it cost 100,000. Maybe it's improved (haven't had time to play for a few days) but it was really demoralizing to see no one even crafting the food. Seriously, as a BST I am really tired of a being a cash cow for cooks. Would be nice to get an upgrade to our job that doesn't involve me needing to farm more gil so I can do things worse on my favourite job.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

18 pages (@ 20 posts/page) and still not much of a result =\

I still don't understand why they can't make pets work like in any other MMO in existence and let them be affected by everything/almost everything instead of needing dedicated special effects just for them. It creates the very obvious problem, which we've run into, where the pet's power does not grow on the same scaling rate as the player himself (Even on SMN, where pre-audolin shattersoul was pushing blood pact damage in some circumstances...) therefore causing the pet jobs to decrease in power as the power of gear and effects rise.

In FFXIV, summoner's pets are affected by every buff under the sun (except protect for some reason), can be cured by anyone, take 10% damage from most AoE effects, and there is no outpouring of QQ of pets being OP. The damage of pet and master was carefully balanced and does not get out of line as stats increase, as the pet's stats are based on the master's.

It's simple, it's clean, it works. (That being said, FFXI's smn has much more of a coolness factor due to a currently greater variety of pets and their appearance, but design wise are more flawed)

It really makes me wonder if at any point in the game's development that the devs actually went and measured master+pet's DPS for all pet jobs and compared that to the other jobs. That's all it takes to see the problem. Being able to solo effectively doesn't mean that pet jobs should be less effective in endgame content than other jobs.

As far as the food: While it's a nice thing, there shouldn't be special food to buff the pets. All pets should simply gain whatever the master gains from their meal.

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There is 70 pages worth of smn rage compared to our 35; granted not everyone felt the same way, but nonetheless, there was plenty rage about XIV smn improvement. Never played smn in XIV, but from the comments, the majority are disappointed in it. Perhaps it is just a SE thing? "Shrugs"

The only thing I could really see wrong with FFXIV's arcanist/summoner is all the summons other than carby are hideous... well I never saw the fairy before I quit but, the dwarf ifrit looks stupid.

Selene n eos are friggin cute. Except when they agro stuff and go loopy and wander of to who knows where. Anywho...

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Originally Posted by Olor

The only thing I could really see wrong with FFXIV's arcanist/summoner is all the summons other than carby are hideous... well I never saw the fairy before I quit but, the dwarf ifrit looks stupid.

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Word, lol.

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Originally Posted by Olor

yeah for how cheap the ingredients are, crafters are really gouging on the attack food as far as I can tell. I bought 1 NQ peice and it cost 100,000. Maybe it's improved (haven't had time to play for a few days) but it was really demoralizing to see no one even crafting the food. Seriously, as a BST I am really tired of a being a cash cow for cooks. Would be nice to get an upgrade to our job that doesn't involve me needing to farm more gil so I can do things worse on my favourite job.

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The acc food is really cheap to make. It carries the minor annoyance of having to go to the Tenshodo to buy the unstackable sticky rice, but that's not really a problem.

The attack food...is a problem. It requires mugwort, which as far as I know, you cannot buy anywhere. That would explain the price/availability.

Both give you some HP, which is a nice bonus.

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but from the comments, the majority are disappointed in it.

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I am specifically referring to mechanically how pets function- e.g. they behave like any other player controllable target, can be buffed and cured like any player, your stats decide their stats, etc.

Personally I enjoy summoner in XIV, most of the people I know who don't like it just hate on the fact that we aren't calling downsized verisons of the primals (This was done because Yoshida felt that summoning an exact clone of the actual primals, who are god-tier beings even more so than the avatars in XI and are entirely against the player and the non-beast races, would "cheapen" their role and compromise the game lore.), and instead call unique pets based on their essence. The main gameplay gripe is probably that we only have 3 summons and only one sees regular use (hint: it's the same one that is/was most used in XI for the longest time); and each summon only has 4 abilities, while they generally have more in XI.

Ignore the gripes, and you'll realize that Summoner is the most powerful ranged attacker on a single target (BLM has far better AoE though), and competes well with the melee attackers as well (MNK is stronger but requires more work to achieve that)

TL;DR I don't know anyone who doesn't like XIV's summoner for any reason that doesn't have something to do with comparing to XI. A good chunk of those 70 pages were about summons not being big enough and not looking like the primals. Both of which are cosmetic issues, not gameplay issues.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I am specifically referring to mechanically how pets function- e.g. they behave like any other player controllable target, can be buffed and cured like any player, your stats decide their stats, etc.

Personally I enjoy summoner in XIV, most of the people I know who don't like it just hate on the fact that we aren't calling downsized verisons of the primals (This was done because Yoshida felt that summoning an exact clone of the actual primals, who are god-tier beings even more so than the avatars in XI and are entirely against the player and the non-beast races, would "cheapen" their role and compromise the game lore.), and instead call unique pets based on their essence. The main gameplay gripe is probably that we only have 3 summons and only one sees regular use (hint: it's the same one that is/was most used in XI for the longest time); and each summon only has 4 abilities, while they generally have more in XI.

Ignore the gripes, and you'll realize that Summoner is the most powerful ranged attacker on a single target (BLM has far better AoE though), and competes well with the melee attackers as well (MNK is stronger but requires more work to achieve that)

TL;DR I don't know anyone who doesn't like XIV's summoner for any reason that doesn't have something to do with comparing to XI. A good chunk of those 70 pages were about summons not being big enough and not looking like the primals. Both of which are cosmetic issues, not gameplay issues.

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Well, 133 ppl felt that smn's mechanics were disappointing; granted if it is a serviceable job if played properly (I am no smn). However, 133 ppl are disappointed in the overall concept of smn; not sure it is only an aesthetic aspect. Some felt it was fine, while others despised it. Some in this thread feel that bst is fine; "Shrugs"

I just want to say something else (Perhaps a friendly bump if nothing else), ppl appear to give offended by my laughter and disdain for bst; I do not understand why, my laughter is directed at the job and the actual development of the job. When you sit back and examine bst, there are some flawed aspects right off the bat.

Pet armor/barding- There is no way an ordinary/naked pet can keep up on harder content. Pet armor should have been implemented right off the bat. Pet's are their own entities, hence should have their own armor as opposed to sharing armor with the master (Hence why their defense and survivability are so poor. Try going into delve naked). Barding would give the pet a tremendous boost, offensively and defensively.

Jug level cap: There is no way to reverse this, there is already an merit category for it, hence would require quite a bit of retooling.

Jug selection: SE gives us crappy jugs, end of story; not to mention the mysterious removal of beneficial jug abilities.

Their are no abilities to enhance our pet: the ones we have are sub-par and do not address our pet's accuracy issues.

If bst is ever released in XIV, I hope they learned form XI's mistakes. Our best bet atm is for SE to announce bst at E3 (For XIV); I just do not see them fixing a 12 year old rarely used job on a 12 year old dying game; that ship has sailed imo.

I'd love to see some bst pet buff ja's. If anything like ffxiv has for smn, I believe it would be rather hand. Of course, I would like to see smn, pup, and even drg's wyvern receive something similar. All pet jobs are suffering.

I'd be interested in some pet buff JAs if they're not going to extend AoE party buffs to them. But more JAs means more delay ... and PUP really suffers from that problem already. So hopefully it would be a long-lasting buff.

I'd just rather pets benefit from buffs we already have. They should at least be hit with AOE buffs and dancer buffs.

^^Even if they did, the pets would still be weak, hence why individuals were asking for a sizable amount of attack and accuracy from food; like 200ish/300ish.

Imo; a pet with songs, protect, and rolls would not take bst over the top nor give them invites. Jugs, in particular do not scale like players do. Even in abyssea with full on attack buffs on incredibly weak prey bst is not impressive. I seriously doubt pet songs or rolls would solve our issues; it is much deeper, mechanics imo. Monsters have weak special abilities in general; unless they are NM moves. These normal run of the mill pets will never shine on lvl128 content. Pets are naked, normal run of the mill monsters trying to go up against bosses whom challenge REM players; I don't see how this will ever work.

Monstrosity is what bst should have been as it pertains to instincts and overall power of the pets. ppl what to make jokes about how I may play too much monstrosity, but the truth is, if they ever let monsters do outside content other than monstrosity, you can slowly, but surely kiss your bst goodbye. Some in this thread advocate such a thing with monstrosity as do I http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...trosity-update.
These are the only events I do bst on, but it would be much more enjoyable to do it on monstrosity.

I say good riddance.