Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

i realize that everyone will want info for every job. but it would be nice to hear something of rdm... for once x.x. i only feel i should say this, because of all the info we will get, rdm is the one i doubt we will hear anything from. Its pretty much always been that way. So i say this now, since rdm is no longer a god among jobs, can we PLEASE get some info from devs about what will be done? I'm aware that the community reps read all this and report it all, so all i can ask is that you try to stress the desire for info on rdm.

The job's usefulness has dwindled more and more since level cap raises, not being the only job that can solo everything is fine. But i just don't wanna ask for a pt, tell them I'm rdm and hear "um... sorry, whm only please." At the very least i would hope we get Cure V when 95 cap is added, cure IV is damn near useless now... Though if we get new and actually useful enfeebling spells, that'd be great, but don't kill our ability to be a "jack of all trades" that was what i loved about rdm.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

At the point WAR and MNK are now, if they left them at 90 and gave everyone else 95, they would still be better.

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i just wanna make sure they arent fucking with monk or giving us another useless JA *footworks* again.

Cure IV is only useless in certain end game abyssea fights. Otherwise it is still efficient. My rdm can get around 40%+ cure potency and that is 550+ cure4's. Two of those is enough to cap most DD HP from a ws or so. There is only a 4 second recast time or so as well. WHM should be the premier healer anyway.

I'm not sure the 2hr revamp is that promising.

During a zerg, 2hr BRD + Haste is capped magic haste. Prior to that, you will prefer the BRD over a SCH for NQ marches. Prior to that, you will prefer a WHM for superior healing, but even if SCH is healing, normal haste will cap you. Some instances where this will change the PT dynamics:

* SCH as main healer and BRDs do not have/use 2hr (Requires Haste + 2hr + Marches to hit the magic cap, which is not difficult since Marches + Haste nearly get you there)

The regain value will skew the benefit of haste in that a 100TP regain (Very unlikely) will undermine the impact of having haste. Conversely, high haste will undermine the regain if the value is "normal" (1 TP/tick).

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Originally Posted by Yugl

I'm not sure the 2hr revamp is that promising.

During a zerg, 2hr BRD + Haste is capped magic haste. Prior to that, you will prefer the BRD over a SCH for NQ marches. Prior to that, you will prefer a WHM for superior healing, but even if SCH is healing, normal haste will cap you. Some instances where this will change the PT dynamics:

* SCH as main healer and BRDs do not have/use 2hr (Requires Haste + 2hr + Marches to hit the magic cap, which is not difficult since Marches + Haste nearly get you there)

The regain value will skew the benefit of haste in that a 100TP regain (Very unlikely) will undermine the impact of having haste. Conversely, high haste will undermine the regain if the value is "normal" (1 TP/tick).

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If Bravery is over 15% haste, stacking with Haste and Marches, you can Minuet instead of march1 one of those songs.

It's a 2hour, we can assume the Regen is high enough to out perform Regen IV, and/or stacks with Regen IV. Regen IV can already be bumped up to 39HP/tick, which is significant outside Abyssea.

Regain spell+Regain earring would only need 3 ticks of regain to bump Ukon up a xhit assuming the common 6hit builds (which depends, however, on DA, TA, and Retaliation).

However, if it's potency is anything less than posted, it'll be useless.

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Brave
Target: Single (Can be made AoE through the use of stratagems)
Effect: Regen + Regain + Haste (Values/duration are under development)
Usage Level: 5~ (Under the effects of Tabula Rasa only)
Skill Type: Enhancing Magic

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Interesting for the "Light" side of things. I'm not immediately displeased with this one.
I would hope that this Haste bypasses other forms and even allows beyond the cap, or make the regain actually worth a damn.

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Merton
Target: Single (Can be made AoE through the use of stratagems)
Effect: Damage + Damage over Time (DoT effect depends on the initial damage)
Usage Level: 5~ (Under the effects of Tabula Rasa only)
Skill Type: Dark Magic

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SE doesn't want us using Helices on enemies, and now they do? This one also just doesn't seem 2hr-worthy, imo. Feels like a quick slap on.

At best it would probably be initial damage comparable to T3~T4 range and a few ticks afterward or active while 2hr is still in effect. I know this isn't classified as Helix, but assuming 8-10~sec/tick = 5-7~ procs while 2hr active.
As long as NM's aren't resisting, it would be great for soloers or for quicker hate-free low man attempts. If good enough, it could also be a sort of mini-brew, but i doubt it.

Finally, it could be a great way to AoE groups of monsters in Abyssea. Relying on 2hr chest spam.

At worst, the initial damage is crap and the procs resisting too much. More monsters making the AoE less & less forcing this method useless.

There is actually a SCH specific manifesto post. Wonder why they didn't post it there.

Can't say I'm overwhelmed with joy at this info, but I wasn't expecting much to begin with.

Also please keep the regain an even number that works well with 6 5 4 hit builds so it's actually worth a damn for well geared players. You should also look into this adjustments for the COR roll.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

There is actually a SCH specific manifesto post. Wonder why they didn't post it there.

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D'oh! My bad, I searched and didn't find it. Sorry about that. I didn't want to hold onto the information longer than I already had after it was compiled. :( (I blame Camate, honestly.)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I blame Camate, honestly.

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Doesn't everyone?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

D'oh! My bad, I searched and didn't find it. Sorry about that. I didn't want to hold onto the information longer than I already had after it was compiled. :( (I blame Camate, honestly.)

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lol@Camate

Hahaha, wow. Next we'll have a WAR thread with them asking for more. You'd think the people who got the best JAs coming their way alongside WARs would be happy. I mean, I play SAM and I realize the patch notes spell out loud and clear that it'll resume it's obnoxious status as the bandwagon top tier job again with its playerbase being rude pricks to everyone who isn't one.

Is it possible to maybe let Corsair have more Quickshot charges yet? Maybe an adjustment that we get 1 every 20 or so levels? I see you guys concentrating on the rolls a lot, and I like that, but even ONE more charge on Quickshot would improve the flow of the job for a lot of us.

Please & Thank You.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Hahaha, wow. Next we'll have a WAR thread with them asking for more. You'd think the people who got the best JAs coming their way alongside WARs would be happy. I mean, I play SAM and I realize the patch notes spell out loud and clear that it'll resume it's obnoxious status as the bandwagon top tier job again with its playerbase being rude pricks to everyone who isn't one.

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You shouldn't talk bad about DRKs like that!

Anyway, I don't see many WARs asking for multitude of more stuff, just adjustments to their current role.

With the increase to 3 rolls CORs are probably gonna' need an extra QD to make up for the fact that they'll be spending their entire damn time keeping rolls up.

Will Dark Knights Be receiving one of these updates from the Dev team? I really hope so.

@SCH announcement

LOL@ Merton retaining its name from FFIII US. I was worried after I read the JP translation earlier that it would be translated as Meltdown, but I guess the dolls already have a move called that. Needless to say I'm geeked about the name!

Now all we need is for it to do 9999 damage to the mob and the party, but let the party absorb the damage with Voidstorm up!!!

Compared to other job adjustment announcements I'm pleased for now at the SCH ones. They were all positive answers at least. Only numbers will tell in the end of course.

I was also confused at the post being made here instead of the SCH board. It's currently the most active thread there :p

Anyway, any info on if the range of Libra will be adjusted? And of course most of us SCHs are still wondering about Modus Veritas. Bottom line though, as happy as I would be with any nuking improvements, like many people have said SCH needs a way to be an adequate healer again, and for its recently added unique spells to be of real value. Certainly a 2 hour Brave and a mob TP reduction spell (unless it's uber) won't be doing this.

I am very excited about extra bonuses for weather and for a Scan type ability!

On Brave, I suspect this will be a separate status (i.e. its own icon rather than adding Haste, Regain and Regen icons to the status bar), so I assume it will stack with the individual versions of all the buffs it provides. I agree if the Regain is high then the value of Haste will be minimized, but if the Brave Haste works like the Haste spell, it could also add some additional element of diminished recast at least?

Also, I expressed this concern on the SCH board but here it is again. If Brave and Merton are simply methods to address, through combination spells, the complaint that Tabula Rasa's duration currently suffers from JA spam, and if Brave buffs and Merton damage are consequently equivalent to their corresponding individual spells, that would be pretty disappointing.

Looking forward to the strategem announcements tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

With the increase to 3 rolls CORs are probably gonna' need an extra QD to make up for the fact that they'll be spending their entire damn time keeping rolls up.

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Have you played the job? =P

Keeping rolls up is a non-issue in most cases, they last a while, and last even longer still with gear/merits. For the time you're not rolling, you can do a little debuff enhancing, and/or damage.

The Quickshots are a really nice bridge of actions between rolls, they help deal with downtime, and smooth out the pace of the job. Either you're taking Slow/Para to the next level, setting up for nukes to do more damage, or just adding a little damage yourself. Two shots is just too little though.

You'd think in the fifty levels from forty, when you get the ability, to ninety, where we're currently at; a Corsair would find a way to squeeze out another shot or two...

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Hahaha, wow. Next we'll have a WAR thread with them asking for more. You'd think the people who got the best JAs coming their way alongside WARs would be happy. I mean, I play SAM and I realize the patch notes spell out loud and clear that it'll resume it's obnoxious status as the bandwagon top tier job again with its playerbase being rude pricks to everyone who isn't one.

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Hard to beat WAR getting an auto-crit ability...

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

If Bravery is over 15% haste, stacking with Haste and Marches, you can Minuet instead of march1 one of those songs.

It's a 2hour, we can assume the Regen is high enough to out perform Regen IV, and/or stacks with Regen IV. Regen IV can already be bumped up to 39HP/tick, which is significant outside Abyssea.

Regain spell+Regain earring would only need 3 ticks of regain to bump Ukon up a xhit assuming the common 6hit builds (which depends, however, on DA, TA, and Retaliation).

However, if it's potency is anything less than posted, it'll be useless.

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Or instead of wasting a spot on SCH, you could add another DD. Minuet won't make up for the damage of another WAR or a DRG providing angon (Assuming you didn't have one earlier). Zerg situations usually have AoE healing covered either via PD or Curaga spam. Given that most of the damage during zergs comes from AoE spikes, I doubt regen will make up for that since most of the regen will have no effect (Capped HP melees) and will not regen fast enough. That's assuming the regen beats Regen IV, which is certainly not guaranteed (See Angon v SSJump).

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Originally Posted by Yugl

Or instead of wasting a spot on SCH, you could add another DD. Minuet won't make up for the damage of another WAR or a DRG providing angon (Assuming you didn't have one earlier). Zerg situations usually have AoE healing covered either via PD or Curaga spam. Given that most of the damage during zergs comes from AoE spikes, I doubt regen will make up for that since most of the regen will have no effect (Capped HP melees) and will not regen fast enough. That's assuming the regen beats Regen IV, which is certainly not guaranteed (See Angon v SSJump).

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See: Rotations

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

See: Rotations

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Wouldn't you just rotate another bard then?

Edit: Actually, someone gave me a VERY good use for such a 2hr....

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Originally Posted by Gokku

i just wanna make sure they arent fucking with monk or giving us another useless JA *footworks* again.

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Its okay man.

You still don't have:

Dark Seal or Diabolic Eye!

Could we get a DRK follow up?

Perhaps, maybe.

Pretty please.

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Originally Posted by Karinya_of_Carbuncle

Is this a joke? RDM does have a big problem right now, but lolmelee isn't it. RDM was never intended to be a primarily melee oriented job at high levels and there's no reason to expect that to change.

The primary problem RDM faces in level 90 content is that RDM (and SCH) is no longer a useful healer! The game has been reduced to only one viable healer job and SE shows no indication of whether they even intended that to be the case. For both RDM and SCH, not a good enough healer + bad selection of yellow procs = unwanted job. Their unique spells are insignificant, or at least unappreciated.

Maybe, if the post-90 endgame doesn't have the enormous HP pools of abyssea, Cure IV will stop being junk, but even so, the fact that you have the same top heal as a BLM or BRD doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

There's no discussion (explicitly at least) of whether SE wants any job other than WHM to be able to heal effectively, or what plans they have to make that possible again at higher levels the way it was at 75.

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LOLPLD!!!!

Just gonna put this out there for those who don't know but, your CureIV with 40% potency is great and no one is gonna knock that, but CureIV outside of Abyssea on hard mobs is a near useless spell. The only thing it's going to do is cure less efficiently and generate more enmity. It's great in a pinch, but the reason WHM is so much better outside of Abyssea is CureV/VI. This is obvious for inside as well, and that's a dead horse...but having a smaller HP pool outside isn't going to make CureIV a good idea. That's why RDM and PLD tanks use it to build hate.

Haven't you heard from Pimpchan, lolCureVI, that leaves Cure V and cureskin!

Tranquil Heart was supposed to help alleviate the enmity generation but it's apparently less than -10 enmity...

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Tranquil Heart was supposed to help alleviate the enmity generation but it's apparently less than -10 enmity...

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For now.

Plus it is a seperate term, so it stacks with -enmity from gear. A little goes a long way.

All in all though Tranquil Heart isn't gonna fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Haven't you heard from Pimpchan, lolCureVI, that leaves Cure V and cureskin!

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For now, who knows, they may up the cap on MND/VIT for cures, or make it so Cure VI cures better the higher level you go.

We still got a ways to go yet.

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Originally Posted by Yugl

Wouldn't you just rotate another bard then?

Edit: Actually, someone gave me a VERY good use for such a 2hr....

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You could. Or a COR. Or a SCH if this is worth using.

They should toss out the regain and just add in Physical Damage+ like in FFXII

There are three things that I think should be addressed with SCH.

Adloquim: While this spell is handy, it is much too slow to be of real use. 1 TP/tic is too slow for most situation, I feel, and that it could be more (such as 3 TP/tic). I will accept a reduction in how long the spell is on in exchange so that it will still be only 60 TP total, but I think it could be a bit faster.

Modus Veritas: This ability has been turned into a useful/useless ability. While it's useful against normal enemies, the ten minute timer greatly limits its use except for the big boss fights. However, against big bosses, the enemies that I want to use the ability on, it either misses entirely, or it has no effect. While I know why it was made the way it was, I think it's gone too far, and it's now in the category of useful/useless abilities. Please make it that so that Modus Veritas no longer misses or is resisted, but to avoid the situation of 18 Scholars one shotting AV, make it so that only one Modus is active at a time.

AoE Ability: One thing that SCH really lacks is an ability to massively kill enemies. While I can easily knock one or two fearsome foes single-handedly, I really don't have a way to kill even the weakest of enemies as effectively as other jobs. While I'm not suggesting that SCH should kill as easily as a BLM, but some sort of way to attack multiple enemies at once would be helpful.

Thanks for reading.

Well for the weakest enemies you could always just AoE drain, but that's more of a nitpick.

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Originally Posted by Urteil

Could we get a DRK follow up?

Perhaps, maybe.

Pretty please.

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That would probably happen in the DRK thread.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

That would probably happen in the DRK thread.

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You'd think, right.

Drk needs to sacrifice something.
They'll give something like an ability that strips the drk from all equipment to increase damage of next attack.

drk just need to sacrifice all their magic possibilty to become strong DD..


(= change job =>war)

A new ability that jeopardizes the DRK's connection to the server to increase damage output.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

You could. Or a COR. Or a SCH if this is worth using.

They should toss out the regain and just add in Physical Damage+ like in FFXII

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I thought I was going crazy since I remember seeing a march+3 instrument, but wiki didn't have it listed. However, it does exist, which means BRD 2hr Victory March + haste alone will cap you. That means they can give the extra Minuet even without SCH.

Didn't they say that Brave will increase in potency as the level increases (for example, the Regen effect would be +5 at level 5 and the Haste would be +5 at level 5, but at level 90 it could be that the Regen effect would be +40 and the Haste would be at +25)?

Even if it's something simple like 10% Haste, 15 Regen, and 3 tp/tic, they could allow using Rapture to double the potency of everything, basically giving it a growth option once you unlock that stratagem. Doubling its duration would then come later on.