Hvergelmir WTF SE

Rearden, just to show you I know what bucket you are in, here's your profile:

http://www.bluegartr.com/members/34661-Churchill

That's some great detective work

Knowing you are from BG is enough to drop kick you out of melee SMN discussion.

Honestly, IDC what you do because personally, if I knew who you were and were on my server, id just avoid doing anything with you.

But I don't really take kindly to you feeding others misinformation for them to go and then make a weapon, get it, and realize its no wear NEAR as good as you are trying to make it sound like.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Honestly, IDC what you do because personally, if I knew who you were and were on my server, id just avoid doing anything with you.

But I don't really take kindly to you feeding others misinformation for them to go and then make a weapon, get it, and realize its no wear NEAR as good as you are trying to make it sound like.

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Don't worry about it, different servers.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bismarck/Elementa

Oh man.

"Everyone's wrong for not having my opinion and are therefore subject to various curse words!"

Is this the gist of what I'm reading on this thread? Because it really does seem like it.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Honestly, IDC what you do because personally, if I knew who you were and were on my server, id just avoid doing anything with you.

But I don't really take kindly to you feeding others misinformation for them to go and then make a weapon, get it, and realize its no wear NEAR as good as you are trying to make it sound like.

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Oooh, misinformation. I love misinformation. What part of "best damage a SMN can deal" pisses you off?

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Originally Posted by Modoru

Oh man.

"Everyone's wrong for not having my opinion and are therefore subject to various curse words!"

Is this the gist of what I'm reading on this thread? Because it really does seem like it.

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Yes. Same as last time.

Again, Dallas showing he doesn't actually play SMN

What a surprise, this thread is going nowhere fast. At least it can't really be blamed on me this time.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Again, Dallas showing he doesn't actually play SMN

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During three fights that drop nothing of any use to anyone? No, they have you for those worthless events.

Al, it's the same people, same discussion as last time. When I choose to abandon it, it will die again.

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Al, it's the same people, same discussion as last time. When I choose to abandon it, it will die again.

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I'm pretty sure that's what people want, deep down in their hearts, even if they don't show it.

And none of them have any vested interest in playing SMN at its limits. Not my problem. Why you think it is your problem is anyone's guess.

I think he just doesn't like you

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Originally Posted by Dallas

And none of them have any vested interest in playing SMN at its limits. Not my problem. Why you think it is your problem is anyone's guess.

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its my/our problem because your continuation of threads like this serves no purpose. You're trying to convince people of something they have made up their minds on. It's a waste of your time and a waste of everyone else's. The only reason they allow it to continue is because they enjoy watching you post things that they think make you look... bad, for lack of a forum-appropriate term.

Besides, Dallas doesn't realize that I have a Hvergelmir now.

I just use it as a town piece. It is still useless inside and outside of Abyssea.

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I find that Hvergelmir isn't useless on the SMNs I see use it...

Do they ever engage in the actual fight? No, they're not stupid.

They TP pre fight, burn through their MP, pop myrkr, and then switch staves/use meds.

I mean if you're going to hit something, why bring a stick to an axe fight

It does come down to how you use it. With Hvergelmir 85, I've found myself doing near equal damage with avatar normal attacks, but it's still the best ideal to let the avatars deal a bit of damage or open with a blood pact before going in. Basically sticking with the concept of being melee smn still.

It is a great weapon for campaign though. I've always enjoyed being on smn more doing those but now more than ever. In older endgame content, it's is possible for smn to build TP through meleeing regularly, like in Dynamis... though I wouldn't suggest it on mega and arch bosses.

Sora, LLH said no, so stop it! Why can't we all just do half damage and get along?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I find that Hvergelmir isn't useless on the SMNs I see use it...

Do they ever engage in the actual fight? No, they're not stupid.

They TP pre fight, burn through their MP, pop myrkr, and then switch staves/use meds.

I mean if you're going to hit something, why bring a stick to an axe fight

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But it's a much harder stick!

lol still as noob as ever Dallas

You got me, I have NEVER even thought about wielding axe on SMN.

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Originally Posted by Rearden

The only benefit of Hver is the +MP for PD.

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i see what you did there

Hey, it is more mp than Ukon, so cut our BG SMN some slack.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You got me, I have NEVER even thought about wielding axe on SMN.

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inb4 rune chopper

I know of it, but noob me didn't actually think to use it.

Embrava + Mythic = GG

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With Hvergelmir 85, I've found myself doing near equal damage with avatar normal attacks

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A melee SMN usually out-damage their own avatars when it comes to normal attacks. At least I've always done it with my crappy staffs in the past. Depends on target of course, I know on cerberus at 75 my avatars hit harder than DRKs so I'd assume if I ever had meleed cerberus with staff, I'd have done pitiful damage.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

A melee SMN usually out-damage their own avatars when it comes to normal attacks. At least I've always done it with my crappy staffs in the past. Depends on target of course, I know on cerberus at 75 my avatars hit harder than DRKs so I'd assume if I ever had meleed cerberus with staff, I'd have done pitiful damage.

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Avatars, pets, and monsters don't have any level correction in their pDIF for melee attacks. That's why low level monsters (like level 75 stuff) still hit you so hard without any buffs. Level 75 players fighting level 95 monsters (like Jorm) did comparatively crap damage even with Minuets. They sure weren't meleeing for 160 damage like the Nightmare monsters fighting me. That's also why Avatars hit harder than DRKs on Cerberus at 75.

Avatar BPs may suffer from level correction, though it's less clear. All we really know is that Avatar BP pDIF is different than Avatar melee pDIF. You've seen Kegsay's data, which is really all I'm basing this off of anyway.

Kegsay's work was far from complete, and my data put a hole in it. Avatars appear to have a damage bonus that extends to weaker mobs as well as stronger ones.

A few weeks ago I reviewed the past 2 years of Alla SMN forum research-posts and found nothing inconsistent with Kegsay's posts on Avatar pDIF. When I went to test it myself, all that I found is that Avatars get crit attack bonus and BPs don't follow the same pDIF as melee.

My work was on Wiki, I specifically tested on EP - DC mobs to eliminate level correction. It is far more likely that avatars have low attack plus 50% damage bonus than it is that avatars have naturally high attack. The "level" slope is too steep.

Shikikoyo.

I always thought this ability didn't really get the respect it deserves, considering it's applications.

If MP becomes a problem, a SAM can use this underrated ability to give any mage the necessary TP to recover a respectable amount with Myrkr and to remove some no good status effects. And it doesn't use an item or require you to change your Atmas for melee/accuracy. Just a willing SAM with 200%-300% TP.

Strategy and team work. Problem solved.

Sam has better things to do than give tp to a Smn, mainly keep weaponskilling (in Fudo's case, more damage/ODD if MAsamune). If they aren't weaponskilling, someone is probably on the wrong job.

Yes, samurai have better things to do, like beg for a party slot. Haven't seen a SAM in ages...

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Sam has better things to do than give tp to a Smn

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But it isn't for TP, it is for the MP. A Summoner having 800-1000 MP is generally better then a Samurai having 100-200 TP, unless your goal is to lots of damage RIGHT NOW.

Same for a Black Mage or Scholar. Shoot, with a Scholar you can now return the TP using Embrava, so even in a zerg it could be a good idea.

Creative problem solving can make for good gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

My work was on Wiki, I specifically tested on EP - DC mobs to eliminate level correction. It is far more likely that avatars have low attack plus 50% damage bonus than it is that avatars have naturally high attack. The "level" slope is too steep.

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http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4792772

The 2 links in that post point to testing.

I have a friend who played on SAM when we went to go do WoE. Better believe giving me TP when he could aided him in ability to survive. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Yes, samurai have better things to do, like beg for a party slot. Haven't seen a SAM in ages...

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tend to see them alot more than melee SMNs......