Any new HNM coming?

Yeah I bot claim all day on console.. oh wait. Seriously there is an unreal amount of crying over this issue. Saying that every casual player should have the same shot at gear that comes from camping, and killing HNM is silly. If I'm gonna fight botter's/heavy competition I want it to be for something rare. I am all for the "have that same gear in Einherjar" system. At least every whack casual couldn't stroll into Einherjar, and brew/zombie their way to decent gear.

This is why Twilight gear has no meaning behind it, anyone can kill it bc of brew. Anyone can get title np. Who cares about why you do or don't want new world spawn HNM? Having the best stuff should be earned, not givin to you on a silver plate like abyssea. Long windows cut the flow of items so that not only are they actually good, but rare to see. Not like twilight mail where you see a WAR full time it + helm with 0% haste. We all pay to play, don't preach this "i want my way only" stuff just cause you don't like the thought of HNM. They'll add stuff besides HNM, seems your only focus is to badmouth world spawns just cause you don't wanna lose to others.

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Yeah I bot claim all day on console.. oh wait. Seriously there is an unreal amount of crying over this issue. Saying that every casual player should have the same shot at gear that comes from camping, and killing HNM is silly. If I'm gonna fight botter's/heavy competition I want it to be for something rare. I am all for the "have that same gear in Einherjar" system. At least every whack casual couldn't stroll into Einherjar, and brew/zombie their way to decent gear.

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You don't have to bot yourself to benefit from it, friend of mine never botted but he joined a shell he knew were one of the biggest bot claiming shells on the server, he still benefitted greatly from botting. It's like living with a drug dealer, you may not deal yourself but you cetainly get to live in a nicer house with nicer things around you. I don't mind gear being rare or very few being able to get it, I just don't want stinking botters to get it over others having had to deal with them for years.

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This is why Twilight gear has no meaning behind it, anyone can kill it bc of brew. Anyone can get title np. Who cares about why you do or don't want new world spawn HNM?

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See what this whole thing was always about was "I don't really want compeition or difficult fights...I just want gear others don't have so I can afk in port with it while I'm in bed dreaming about others checking my char ;-; also please let them be bottable so I can forcably stop others getting it ><;" I did HNM for over 4 years I know exactly how it works, the mentality of the players that do them and the driving forces behind doing them.

These new HNM will be a good sign if the devs learned anything, if they really do add hnm as they did in the past after how many complaints they had from good endgame players at the vanafests etc and how much they knew botting was abused well...they are a lost cause.

As far as I'm concerned make the fights really damn hard, put harsh time restrictions on them too, but just let everyone be able to try it. WoW for all the bashing is popular because everyone gets to at least try all the endgame raids, win or fail they can at least say they lost due to not being good enough instead of not having the correct bot system. Half the NMs in abyssea were very challenging if not for curor buffs and atams so they can certainly make difficult nms.

People say that once information gets out about how to kill them any NM is easy, so like if your in a top tier shell and think this...don't share the info if thats what you want? You put the information out there on BG for anyone to read and you are giving people an easy win, same as what hapened with AV...this applies even more if the fights are out of public view. Stop sharing information if you don't want everyone being able to do them, you make your own situation. Either you want to help everyone do this stuff or you don't, can't have it both ways.

I don't care what S/E does with it so long as bots are marginalized or are completely worthless for the claim. I saw an idea in the thread where it remains unclaimed for a short period and then chooses off its hate list of people who have acted upon it. That's not a bad idea.

Another idea would be to use the proc system to claim. Where it stays yellow until the randomized appropriate action has been performed upon it then that person has claim. Also, make it choose from a list that has an exclusive job ability or spell for every job. So, all jobs have value in coming to the HNM pop. Not just a few select jobs.

Finally, for anyone talking about a 6 man party, if you can win with less than an alliance, then this isn't the HNM people have been asking for.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

besides HNM, seems your only focus is to badmouth world spawns just cause you don't wanna lose to others.

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Not at all, a large number of people in the thread have been there, done that, been successful, are better geared, are better players than you, still don't agree, and just feel its a retarded, outdated system. Not because they don't want to lose to others.

Not you. Im saying ppl QQ bc they assume anyone who likes HNM are botters which is not true.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Not you. Im saying ppl QQ bc they assume anyone who likes HNM are botters which is not true.

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Every individual no, but every even half reputable HNM on any server had members who botted.

I personally don't care either way about botting, however, I just find 21-24 hours to be a retarded idea/concept.

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Originally Posted by Randwolf

I don't care what S/E does with it so long as bots are marginalized or are completely worthless for the claim. I saw an idea in the thread where it remains unclaimed for a short period and then chooses off its hate list of people who have acted upon it. That's not a bad idea.

Another idea would be to use the proc system to claim. Where it stays yellow until the randomized appropriate action has been performed upon it then that person has claim. Also, make it choose from a list that has an exclusive job ability or spell for every job. So, all jobs have value in coming to the HNM pop. Not just a few select jobs.

Finally, for anyone talking about a 6 man party, if you can win with less than an alliance, then this isn't the HNM people have been asking for.

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Oooh I like that Randwolf. Like a weakness trigger to get claim. That is an excellent idea sir! Hopefully someone official see's this. If that could be implemented on existing HNM as well it would be awesome x2 Could make HNM's melee attacks count like Iron Giants for stagger purposes. That sounds as if it would go a long ways towards disrupting current botting practices.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Every individual no, but every even half reputable HNM on any server had members who botted.

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You'll find plenty of botters who hate HNM, and that part of the community. Botting isn't restricted to HNMLS members.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

You'll find plenty of botters who hate HNM, and that part of the community. Botting isn't restricted to HNMLS members.

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Kings and such is where botting make the big impact though. There are plenty of fish bots and other types of programs but they don't impact other players as acutely.

The funny part is people like Natenn are so delusional. Nobody wants this game to end up ridiculously easy but long waits between being able do the content and forcing people to play at inappropriate hours makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

You'll find plenty of botters who hate HNM, and that part of the community. Botting isn't restricted to HNMLS members.

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Never claimed you wouldn't but when it comes to like botting stuns or cures, that doesn't directly affect other players. When you bot claims, it does. This doesn't apply to only HNMs, its just a lot more common there. It also applies to regular NMs as well.

Also, make the drops Rare/Ex. That way you at least cut down on the campers to those who either want the item or those who have a purchaser in the zone.

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Having the best stuff should be earned, not givin to you on a silver plate like abyssea.

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How did you earn it anyway? The drop rates were annoying if you were legit but since botting was so widespread certain shells dominated and got gear pretty quick, hell if you were a good claimer(by botting) you got priority for gear in the bot shells. Do you think the NMs were hard?..actually did you even kill the hard NMs? Were you among the first to kill AV, did you kill PW before the level increase, have you tried to destroy Rani with no curor buffs and atmas?

HNM were a piece of piss, Nidd, KB(lol), Aspid, Dark Ixion(shell on my server wiped continually to this over and over but again, easy NM), SW, Lambton worm, Cerb, Khim, Tiamat etc were all easy kills. So don't class that stuff as difficult endgame content, sticking though 3 hours of Dyna was harder.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

How did you earn it anyway? The drop rates were annoying if you were legit but since botting was so widespread certain shells dominated and got gear pretty quick, hell if you were a good claimer(by botting) you got priority for gear in the bot shells. Do you think the NMs were hard?..actually did you even kill the hard NMs? Were you among the first to kill AV, did you kill PW before the level increase, have you tried to destroy Rani with no curor buffs and atmas?

HNM were a piece of piss, Nidd, KB(lol), Aspid, Dark Ixion(shell on my server wiped continually to this over and over but again, easy NM), SW, Lambton worm, Cerb, Khim, Tiamat etc were all easy kills. So don't class that stuff as difficult endgame content, sticking though 3 hours of Dyna was harder.

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Thats partially true, pre-ToAU most bot's werent that sophisticated and people did have a fair chance to claim. Granted there were exceptions to this rule, a guy we used to call SuperRaplh on Asura used to do all the claiming for his shell with a custom packetsniffer bot and usually claimed unless it popped before he got there or he had some computer problem like lag. I'm just thankful he never gave the sourcecode to others to bot with.

Anyways, HNM's have been around since pre-CoP so roughly 8-9 years now. In that time (even before the level raise) gear has significantly become better, most blowing the older stuff out of the water. If you tried comparing optimal endgame gear on RDM at 75 back then versus gear just before Abyssea came out you'd laugh. Given the community has gotten a better grasp on game mechanics, it still doesn't change the fact players got upgrades while the HNM's pretty much stayed the same.

And before anyone says it, rage timers were put in specifically to keep people from holding a HNM/NM for long periods of time till friends got on or it moved into their timezone.

Its like arguing with a broken record...not debating this over and over. Reread my old posts.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Its like arguing with a broken record...not debating this over and over. Reread my old posts.

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The same could be said for you though, Or any human who is set in their ideals.

Its Obvious when people with conflicting ideas and Ideals interact on a common subject, They will each defend themselves to hell and back.

Some arguments are bound to come back to the same basic reasoning :)

naten, you play on ps2 and want to go back to the days of old school hnm. you embody the worst cancers of this game.

I've often wondered why the 3 Zilart Beastmen don't have HNM Leaders. I mean, the 3 original Beastmen have soloable leaders now, sure, but the Zilart Beastmen have never had such leaders. It would be cool to finally see them get leaders. I mean having an Antican that looks like no other or a Sahagin or Tonberry that looks like no other would be great I think. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more formidable boss for the Gigas make an appearance. He could appear in Vunkerl in the past so as not to hinder people in Delkfutt's Tower doing Zilart Missions or A Crystalline Prophecy.

And as a side note, since I mentioned it - why not have a path for us to finally re-enter the present day versions of Grauberg, Vunkerl, and For Karugo-Narugo. Maybe have a story line that explains the reason they were sealed off were to keep some of the most dangerous creatures trapped, but being adventurers, we want to see what awaits us, obviously. So you could have 3 zones to put new HNMs. Grauberg, for example, I always felt had the potential to have a crazy HNM up at the very top where you can look out and see the Crag of Dem amongst all the Wyverns.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

the real life card? well played sir, well played.


Edit: i would be happy, why add the best gear to stuff that can be spammed? at least with HNM you see who really put the time/work in to earn it.

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no what you see are A) elietist pricks who stood on evryone to get it or B) botters

What was that? Could you speak up... all I heard was whine whine whine boo hoo boo hoo...

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

I've often wondered why the 3 Zilart Beastmen don't have HNM Leaders. I mean, the 3 original Beastmen have soloable leaders now, sure, but the Zilart Beastmen have never had such leaders. It would be cool to finally see them get leaders. I mean having an Antican that looks like no other or a Sahagin or Tonberry that looks like no other would be great I think. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more formidable boss for the Gigas make an appearance. He could appear in Vunkerl in the past so as not to hinder people in Delkfutt's Tower doing Zilart Missions or A Crystalline Prophecy.

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Tonberries do have their own leader called Grav'iton, you face him during RoZ Mission 4.

The Ocean Sahagin I believe is considered the Sahagin's leader along with Coral and Abyss Sahagin. Considering they wanted little to do with the Crystal War, and wanted to stick to their life as simple fisherman they probably didn't need anything beyond a village elder.

From the Bastok Rank missions you hear mention of a "Queen" which makes sense for an ant colony, but you don't see her in the game which also makes sense because a queen ant is typically defenseless aside from her army. In light of this I think the Antican Consul is considered the head general of the Antican Armies.

Now Gigas on the other hand don't have a leader. I think alot of it has to do with the Gigas were merly hired as Mercenaries and Buldiers from their northern homeland by the Shadow Lord. They were pretty much abandoned after the Shadow Lord's defeat leaving them scattered about much like the Orc and Giga's remnants in Tavnazia. Being they're intelligence is lacking, poor communication skills, and lack of time spent in the Southern Contenients it would be a miracle they would ever become organized enough to have a leader.

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Originally Posted by Swords

Tonberries do have their own leader called Grav'iton, you face him during RoZ Mission 4.

The Ocean Sahagin I believe is considered the Sahagin's leader along with Coral and Abyss Sahagin. Considering they wanted little to do with the Crystal War, and wanted to stick to their life as simple fisherman they probably didn't need anything beyond a village elder.

From the Bastok Rank missions you hear mention of a "Queen" which makes sense for an ant colony, but you don't see her in the game which also makes sense because a queen ant is typically defenseless aside from her army. In light of this I think the Antican Consul is considered the head general of the Antican Armies.

Now Gigas on the other hand don't have a leader. I think alot of it has to do with the Gigas were merly hired as Mercenaries and Buldiers from their northern homeland by the Shadow Lord. They were pretty much abandoned after the Shadow Lord's defeat leaving them scattered about much like the Orc and Giga's remnants in Tavnazia. Being they're intelligence is lacking, poor communication skills, and lack of time spent in the Southern Contenients it would be a miracle they would ever become organized enough to have a leader.

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I do remember Grav'iton, but was thinking more along the lines of something that replaces the Tonberry Pontifex in the Den of Rancor. The same goes for the Ocean Sahagin and the Antican Consul. To me, these are like the Yagudo Avatar, Orcish Overlord, and Diamond Quadavs for those Beastmen.

Now as for the Gigas, you're probably right. Their leader, if it did exist, would be in their homeland which we can't get to at the moment.

He could be on vacation in fauregandi or something

What if you could not bot the nm i would like to see the following changes done to fafnir, niddogg, behemoth king, behemoth, adamantoise and aspid

when any wyrm appears in zone the fly in from way up high and strafe the ground with fire and other attacks where they are gonna land. Can also do touchdown on landing makeing everyone within range stunned. Anyone withing range of earea is severly crippled so everyone will half to run at it from some distance away if the wyrm is a non flyer then it appears out of a posion cloud and spike flails wildly for 30 seconds also reduce the time that they spawn from 21 hours to 6 hours. also would like to see that fafnir and niddogg can appear at the same time together and if all wyrms are not killed within a certaion amount of time the surviveing wyrms start to move from zone to zone til they get to a gathering point once there any wyrms killed reappear and you half to fight all 6 if they are not killed withing 12 hours then then bahamut spawns with them i think the gathering points should be a big map earea so low level players can see them if they dare but can avoid them.

behemoth and king behemoth should be updated also i notice that the behemoths dominion were KB spawns have high overlooking cliffs what if the behemoths jumped down from those cliffs and caused a massive AOE lightling shockwave from the impact. To make things more fun 4 behemoths appear at a time and kaiser behemoths become a new thing kaiser could drop the same things at king behemoth. every time the behemoths spawn 1 kaiser behemoth spawns with them. When king behemoth spawns he is protected by 4 kaiser behemoths 8 guardian behemoths and 16 regular behemoths that appear all over the zone also king behemoth because of the new found difficulty from this should be 100% drop on d ring guardian behemoth should be 25% and kaiser 10% and pixie earring could drop with defending ring

i have some other ideas for aspid there basically the same as behemoth i would like to see the hnms drop a item that can be reused that ill allow people to force pop the fights every 24 hours each key item for a specific hnm

While the intro would be cool it might be a little over the top. However a stun zone just before/during spawn idea wouldnt be a half bad idea, the only problem is botters would still win because their bots would go off the moment stun wears so it wouldn't be much different than if it just spawned. They could always make it where the duration of stun is random, but then you run into the problem of is that really fair claim because first ones to move again will get claim. I suppose you could throw a monkey wrench into the theory, by saying the random duration would leave said claimer potentially defenseless if for instance a WHM or BLM claimed but the rest of the group were stunned for another 30 seconds leaving them to potentially die. But I digress, I am just throwing some random thoughts out on it.

idea sounds good till you think of the fact botters will also have speed hacks or THFs flee will win everytime, I do not support the idea of raising the levels, want a challenge? go solo those NMs, or don't grab crour buffs/atmas to fight in abyssea, there is plenty of things to do for a challenge other then holding onto old crap, seriously why not just say return us to level 75 instead? all HNMs fixed! there is no use in gaining levels if everything is still hard to kill with 50 players, might as well say they should raise the level of west ronfaure rabbits to 90 too since they are no challenge now, end rant

I want a few zones where players can engage each other without being under the effect of charm.
make these new zones have some VERY desirable HNMs pop.
I want to see players fighting lvl 150 HNMs, while other players pick them off one at a time.
This would do so much for the game as it stands.
If not for the pure LOL factor, impliment this to give RNGs a reason for existing.
Think of how fun it would be to sidewidner>barrage>sidewinder>EES some Ochain/Dring PLD in the booty while an HNM nomnoms his face

It's hard to believe there are actually people with ideas that are worse than Natenn's. I honestly wonder how many of these people have been in a serious HNMLS. It's no wonder we had so many years of game sucking if these were similar to the average suggestion back in the day.

Herp de derp... You know what would be fun if we had it so we did an event that lost us exp, gil, and randomly destroyed pieces of gear, oh did mention it'd be full PVP too so that you would never get rewarded because idiots would just spend solo their time ganking instead of fighting the retarded AV clones through out the areas

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Originally Posted by Orson

It's hard to believe there are actually people with ideas that are worse than Natenn's.

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Originally Posted by Orson

forcing people to play at inappropriate hours makes no sense.

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People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown.

Similarly, if more long spawn HNM are added; you don't have to play at unreasonable hours. If you're not online, you don't kill it. Simple.

But we get it, you don't like HNM. Spend your time constructively instead of whining and posting anti-HNM drivel in this thread. There's casual content out there for you. No one is asking for less of that to be added, so why do you need to sit here and cry because some people are asking for HNM?

Edit:
As for those of you complaining about bots; there are many work arounds SE could use. One of them being DI/SW pop-like systems (and people stating THF or Flee Hackers would always claim them have clearly never camped such HNM). Others include increasing lockout time, then randomly choosing a claimant from all of those who have acted on the monster during lockout. The list is endless.

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown....

...As for those of you complaining about bots; there are many work arounds SE could use. One of them being DI/SW pop-like systems (and people stating THF or Flee Hackers would always claim them have clearly never camped such HNM). Others include increasing lockout time, then randomly choosing a claimant from all of those who have acted on the monster during lockout. The list is endless.

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

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For the first one, we had a couple people who were supporting the old HNM style. I think the reaction is such hatred of that system that they really want to make it clear that we don't want that again.

Yes, and some work-arounds for the bots is a definite must. Claim competition would not be as painful if there was a combination of luck and skill in claiming.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I don't think the HNM system should be dropped because of Square's inability to fix a problem that's existed for years. How about taking a few days to figure out a fix for bots (like it's hard?) then get some new HNM out there (again, for those who want to participate in that - if you don't, more power to you.)

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I don't think the HNM system should be either, but a major problem that comes with fixing bots is it doesn't take long to work around whatever "fix" SE does in most cases. Like the little time delay SE had implemented like 4 years ago, after they figured out the delay the bots were back in action. I think if SE played off that idea however and perhaps randomized the duration which it cannot be claimed, would make it harder for bot programmers to counteract.

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Originally Posted by Swords

I don't think the HNM system should be either, but a major problem that comes with fixing bots is it doesn't take long to work around whatever "fix" SE does in most cases. Like the little time delay SE had implemented like 4 years ago, after they figured out the delay the bots were back in action. I think if SE played off that idea however and perhaps randomized the duration which it cannot be claimed, would make it harder for bot programmers to counteract.

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That method will still feed into the staggered bot approach. They are going to need to be more creative than manipulating the claim time.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

People have stated time and time again that the HNM/Fights that are being requested don't have to be 21-24 hour pops, they can pop hourly. So why you, and others like you, are hanging on details of past HNM like this is unknown.

Similarly, if more long spawn HNM are added; you don't have to play at unreasonable hours. If you're not online, you don't kill it. Simple.

But we get it, you don't like HNM. Spend your time constructively instead of whining and posting anti-HNM drivel in this thread. There's casual content out there for you. No one is asking for less of that to be added, so why do you need to sit here and cry because some people are asking for HNM?

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No, I'm not going to shut up because you tell me to. Anti-HNM drivel? This isn't some pride rally that I'm against, get over yourself. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Saying that I'm against free spawning HNMs and demonstrating the reasons as to why they are a bad thing is no less constructive than people with ridiculous suggestions that would be terrible in practice.

Most of the people wanting free spawn HNMs are asking for long respawn timers if you actually read most the thread. Granted there's only a minority of people who actually are asking for free spawn HNMs in general. So I can see maybe it's not a huge amount that want 24+ respawns.

Free spawn HNMs set up the way the way most of you want will always be a bad idea. You guys for the most part insist on having HNM either drop the best gear exclusively or at a significantly better rate. This is a BS system because it boils down to luck. You can sit there and say, "oh well, to compensate we'll just make them hard" but why can't the instanced versions be the hard ones with a sustained point system or a trophy system that requires some one to fight the NM many times to get the drops. Why not put the best armor on the instanced version and have you obtain it in a some what set period of time. Emp weapons are a great example of this. In the past some one could luck out and get a Ridill after 2 mths of camping where as another person might wait 6 mths just to see one drop to their LS.

You keep spouting this nonsense that freespawn HNMs are the real hardcore content because it's "competitive." Even if you could actually eliminate bots. It's completely based on luck. If you can't figure that out then obviously you haven't really done much in the way of HNMs or you're one of the people that was either lucky, had no life, or was in bed with LS leaders.

That's the root of the problem most of the people in this thread don't want the game to be fair. Many of you are under the ridiculous attitude that if the person doesn't belong to a huge HNMLS or doesn't spend 6+ hrs on the game every night that they shouldn't be entitled to the best gear. I'm not asking for everything to be totally casual but abyssea is a nice change of pace from what we put up with before. I'm against the lotto method of rewarding people. Some chance is nice but we're better off having chance like Emp weapons where the difference is one person takes 40 kills to complete a trial and another takes 30 because they used a Thf. I never want to see it where you'll be killing something weeks or even months and never see a drop or make any progress to your goal.

they could make old-school HNMs with the old style of popping, and then make High Kindred Crest BCNM fights that drop the same crap for the people who don't want to deal with all the bogus that comes with camping HNMs (like bots).

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Originally Posted by Orenwald

they could make old-school HNMs with the old style of popping, and then make High Kindred Crest BCNM fights that drop the same crap for the people who don't want to deal with all the bogus that comes with camping HNMs (like bots).

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Ya there's no reason to add camping just because the odd person really enjoys blocking other players from enjoying content.

This I think, from what I've read so far of what's coming in the update is going to be the most intresting part. Not to fight the HNM but to see if the devs have a) Taken notice of how much hatred there has been for the old spawn system since it's creation. b) Noticed how the old system promoted botting and indeed made a handful of people a lot of money selling them and turned the top tier endgamers into RMT. c) If they take any notice of their own forum, seeing the majority of players are against a stupid spawn system.

Really intrested to see what pop system they go with.

You forgot option D) Don't cater to whiny casuals just cuz they cry louder than your average player.

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Originally Posted by Orson

If you can't figure that out then obviously you haven't really done much in the way of HNMs

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Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Orson

or you're one of the people that was either lucky

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Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Orson

had no life

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Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Orson

or was in bed with LS leaders.

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Wrong.

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Originally Posted by Orson

most of the people in this thread don't want the game to be fair

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I believe my posts have asked for HNM that could offer a title, and no drops. Or drops the same as in Abyssea - and at the same rate. Me, myself and I would be completely happy with that. I'm not asking for Ridill 2.0 or Herald's Gaiters 2.0. I'm asking for something that can't be killed with extreme ease by anyone who feels like killing it. Really, MMO's aren't meant to be this easy.

Don't you understand that we're getting all this amazing gear - and there isn't even anything worth testing it on?

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Originally Posted by Orson

I'm not asking for everything to be totally casual

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Well let's be honest, you pretty much are - due to your previous sentence. In which you essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing); "Even if you can't play 6 hours a night, you should still be entitled to the best gear". So yes, you want it casual, and no, you don't want a level of difficulty that you can't/don't have the time to participate in.

How about a HNM that can't be botted, and had an extremely long window (I'm talking days); and if it were to be botted, it would require a whole prepared Linkshell - for the simple reason the difficulty is so extreme, holding with a PLD,BRD,WHM (like in the 'olden days') wouldn't be possible.

Is this where you argue you don't want to have to be in a Linkshell to kill something, you'd rather do it with your group of friends? Well again, and I'll keep repeating this point: That's fantastic. You have Abyssea.

Now something for the rest of us please.

It's also evident that the old HNM system will not be making a comeback. This was solidified when they announced a year and a bit ago "There will be new HNM in the next version update" -- Then we got VNM.

At that point world spawns were over. Still, I maintain my argument that it wouldn't be hurt to put a multizone HNM in like Sandworm/Dark Ixion. For those of you who hate camping, again, there's absolutely no obligation to participate in it.

You ppl aren't gonna deactivate your accounts if free world pops are brought back, like i said b4: old ppl will come back to the game if they do. $ > the rest.