Walk of the no Coin drops??? formerly Walk of echoes

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Always remember that SE is the Wishmaster. Ask to not have to complete with leeches in WoE and they turn us all into leeches. Complain that Relics aren't powerful enough compared to Emps that are easier to get and they make 95 Emps nearly impossible to finish. Tell them you want force pop kings so you don't have to pay HNM shells millions of gil for BB items and gear and you get 5-10mil hq king pops.

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This times 1000. Let's just leave it alone because whatever they come up with will be so much worse.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

Include a new npc to convert coins at a 3:1 ratio, and I believe most people will be pleased.

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I seriously agree. Sitting on almost 50+ Coins of Ruin is pretty terrible.

Out of 30 runs i've got 5 coins of each at max and 10 Devious Dies. 0 pouches, not a single one. Have no need for coins at all, but need 500 Dies. I guess i got really lucky, getting 10 in 30 runs, but even then you're looking at 300 hours for just 1 95 level weapon.

Imo, like i've said before, the simpliest and easiest solution that adresses all of the issues with WoE is:
Get rid of single coins in chests, only pouches should drop with the rate singles are dropping now. Or drastically increase the pouches drop rate.
Add an NPC that gives you dies in exchange for any type of coins.

Pros:
There are no coins that you dont need now, you're either getting coins for particular weapon, or for dies. Its balanced, you either get several weapons to 90, or you get one weapon to 95 by trading all other coins for dies.
Getting particular coins should be much easier,with frequent pouches from your chests.
Cons:
SE deeming it too easy for a weapon thats good for only few extra points of damage and WS over instant to get alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Shellke

Out of 30 runs i've got 5 coins of each at max and 10 Devious Dies. 0 pouches, not a single one. Have no need for coins at all, but need 500 Dies. I guess i got really lucky, getting 10 in 30 runs, but even then you're looking at 300 hours for just 1 95 level weapon.

Imo, like i've said before, the simpliest and easiest solution that adresses all of the issues with WoE is:
Get rid of single coins in chests, only pouches should drop with the rate singles are dropping now. Or drastically increase the pouches drop rate.
Add an NPC that gives you dies in exchange for any type of coins.

Pros:
There are no coins that you dont need now, you're either getting coins for particular weapon, or for dies. Its balanced, you either get several weapons to 90, or you get one weapon to 95 by trading all other coins for dies.
Getting particular coins should be much easier,with frequent pouches from your chests.
Cons:
SE deeming it too easy for a weapon thats good for only few extra points of damage and WS over instant to get alternatives.

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^ This

getting nothing but inventory -5 over and over is disheartening :(

The useless synthesis materials that no one needs are kinda annoying and the biggest slap in the face of it all tbh. OH SWEET PETRIFIED LOG AND IRON ORE.

Petrified logs npc decently.

Just let us trade in coins for a 2:1 ratio and give 1 coin guaranteed per win. Even then when the walk of echos rush wears off then nobody is gonna get anything done in WOE anyways. /shrug.

*the junk(ores gems etc) should just be removed or exchanged for gil OR turned into a point system you can use to buy either new gear or coins and die.

*coins needs to either: made trade-able or increasing the drop rate and/or the above idea about points

*die needs: a stronger base drop rate(across all fluxes if they are indeed not even), add a pouch drop like coins<if there are die pouches already i totally never seen one at all> and/or the above idea about points

*new scroll and gear can remain, even tho the drop rate on those are lower then before if the developers maintain a good amount of players visiting WoE this will remain balanced until the hype dies down again anyways. These items could be added to the above point system as well if you wish.

~ these are the kinds of changes i would like to see. not saying there is a need for all of this but, these are along the lines i see keeping it fair and balanced going form where it is currently.

EDIT: the above post also brings up a good point, soon as the hype dies down, the new chambers will be impossible, this is something SE really needs to consider.

I smell so much Tanaka in this new update that its hard to breathe.

Please make it clear that the system implemented simply does not reward the players. And as previously stated, we will not be playing WoE forever. Making it harder on people who want rewards from it.

IMO a WoE weapon should probably not take much longer than 2-3 weeks of regular WoEing, if you do the event roughly every other day or 1-1.5 weeks if you do it every day. It might seem easymode, but really, the weapons are noticably weaker than the real empyrean weapons, and therefore should also take noticable less time to complete.

-edit-
By "WoE weapon", I specifically mean the lv90 version of it.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

IMO a WoE weapon should probably not take much longer than 2-3 weeks of regular WoEing, if you do the event roughly every other day or 1-1.5 weeks if you do it every day. It might seem easymode, but really, the weapons are noticably weaker than the real empyrean weapons, and therefore should also take noticable less time to complete.

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That is indeed the point, sadly i think they are trying to go the route of make emp so much drastically harder to get to 95 that other trials will pale in comparison. I am not sure but the ugly in this update FAR outshadow the fun/ new stuff they added. 100 die 1500 plates less coins rare drops on scrolls etc etc. i think this is the overall outlook most players are seeing, they turned the reward/effort ratio back from attainable and fun to MASSIVE grinding for tiny gains. Game was holding a friendly casual pace, but they seem to be changing it all back which saddens me a great deal.

Actually know what. If you have a decent team of people, at this rate- you can get some Empyreans to 85 BEFORE YOU WOULD GET THIRTY COINS....

I'm sorry, something is wrong with that. The LS I'm in has gotten people most 85's in under 3 weeks, and this couple coins a day crud would take that much time or longer. There is no way that is fair and balanced.

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Originally Posted by Eradius

Actually know what. If you have a decent team of people, at this rate- you can get some Empyreans to 85 BEFORE YOU WOULD GET THIRTY COINS....

I'm sorry, something is wrong with that. The LS I'm in has gotten people most 85's in under 3 weeks, and this couple coins a day crud would take that much time or longer. There is no way that is fair and balanced.

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The problem isn't that it would take that long for the coins, it is that it would take that much longer to get the dice

85 empy is stronger then WoE version AND WoE version doesn't look like it will even gain anything outside a slight base dmg increase, which leaves A LOT to be desired sadly.

Yeah, there is no real chance that the WoEs will ever get close to the power of empyreans. The only way to make them relevant is to make them faster to make, so that you can casually do it over two weeks without a decent team to help you.

Easiest solution is to make Coins tradeably like Devious Die. That way Ic an bazaar my 26 coins of ruin for 5k each and buy the 13 Coins of Decay I need at 100k each.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

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I just love you! :D

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Originally Posted by Camate

Haha, I have special rare/ex rings that absorb that kind of stuff. Pretty high proc rate too :)

But on a serious note, I am here for you guys ;)

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Camate, Camate, you're so great! :D
For improvements that you facilitate! :D
For the diplomacy you demonstrate! :D
And all your responses we eagerly await! :D

With the development team you communicate!
Disappointing responses you promptly translate!
We post a thousand responses filled with ire and hate!
Don't worry, bro, we still think you're great!

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Easiest solution is to make Coins tradeably like Devious Die. That way Ic an bazaar my 26 coins of ruin for 5k each and buy the 13 Coins of Decay I need at 100k each.

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Agreed, the issue seems to be with obtaining coins. I don't think that you should remove the aspect of random loot even if it is junk. That's just the way the chest roll. As mentioned earlier the 3-5 random loot does provide the Ah with loot that may otherwise be rare and make it easier for people to level certain crafts.

If you remove the chance to obtain 3-5 pieces of loot I think it would discourage people if they go into 10 runs and get nothing out of their personal chest. While sure it may suck to see a bone chip at least you know every time you go in you can get 3-5 items. I really don't think there's any need to change the chest when you consider the balance of each loot acquisition.

If I'm not mistaken you can obtain scrolls from WoE, Voidwatch and the new BCNMS. With WoE for the most part the difficulty of wins is low and it's only a 1hr attempt each time. With Voidwatch you have more control over the quantity/quality of your loot but the difficulty is a tad higher. As for BCNMS I'd say due to the 15 min time restriction those are the most troublesome atm especially when you have the battles where you have to defeat the minions in order to beat the big dude.

But ya for those who want the scrolls I would say try the BCNMs or even voidwatch, with BCNMs you only need 5 other people and I would think the odds of getting a scroll you want would be easier plus it would go faster then a WoE. With WoE you have to wait an hour before doing each one and completion can take anywhere from 15-45 mins to win. With the voidwatch you can attempt it as many times as you'd like as long as you have the stones. With BCNMs due to the time restriction you can get 6 loot pools in an hour and 30 minute time period. As long as you do BCNMs with friends who are trying to get scrolls and help one another I'd say that's the best route to take though if you don't have that many to attempt it with then the best route would be to continue WoE and accept the fact that because of how it's setup you won't always get the best route. It's a luck process as long as you're persistent you'll get what you want but if you want something like scrolls you're prolly better off doing the other two events.

But again in terms of coins the easiest fix for that would be to make them like devious dice and the mirrors. Due to the amount of people doing WoE now the ability to obtain the WoE version of weapons should be a lot easier but I would say it is tougher now. With the amount of runs I've done I don't think I even managed to obtain 10 of one coin type lol. If they simply just made the coins bazarrable I would think that's the simplest solution they could go with rather then revamp the whole loot system since as it stands now I much rather have 3-5 loot even if it is junk then go through a campaign like everyone lots system or only get loot if it's a really rare item.

However the problem is Coins are for certain weapons....Coin of Ruin is for ....staff...so needless to say you more then likely won't even get anyone to buy those. Maybe add or even out which weapons the coins are for.

I'd say just lower the number of coins required for the specific weapon trials.

Ancient Currency from Dynamis is bazarrable, ABCs are too, and so are Alexandrites. If WoE coins were as well, that would solve virtually all of the problems, would it not? Sure, some types would be worth more than others, but that's how relic currency works now. The stuff used to upgrade the better weapons is worth more, and vice-versa.

Just make the damn coins NOT EX.

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Originally Posted by Divinius

Ancient Currency from Dynamis is bazarrable, ABCs are too, and so are Alexandrites. If WoE coins were as well, that would solve virtually all of the problems, would it not? Sure, some types would be worth more than others, but that's how relic currency works now. The stuff used to upgrade the better weapons is worth more, and vice-versa.

Just make the damn coins NOT EX.

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Well, relic and mythics need other items aside the massive quantity items, opposed to woe weapons needing just 30 coins only and nothing else. and besides empy weapon items also are not sellable. and only need those items.

If you could Bazaar coins there'd be no effort involved in completing a WoE weapon at all...you're getting a whole new Weaponskill dudes and dudettes...even Nyzul basically required you to climb 1-100 to do that.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

If you could Bazaar coins there'd be no effort involved in completing a WoE weapon at all...you're getting a whole new Weaponskill dudes and dudettes...even Nyzul basically required you to climb 1-100 to do that.

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Than You! My god all you people crying to make coins sold in Bazaar's... Ughhh.. just ugh. Do some work for a decent weapon. 3:1 ratio fixes the problem. All making coins sold in Bazaar's will do is promote people buying their way into the weapon. Think we had enough of that with abyssesa, and relics. Try actually playing the game for a change...

I'm kinda glad they made the weapon I'm going for harder to make, i was going after Tobi +2 but after 50 runs and only getting 15 glory coins. i spent a few hours looking at kannagi nms. Got off my lazy tail and shouted for a while. first 2 days 50 helms, and 42 skins so far, going to try to get 8 tonight after taking care of some stuff irl in a few hours. I don't know about other trials, but kannagi if you really want it, you can get it to 85 in 4 days or so by making pickup parties for +2 items with moderate effort on my part. I wish I had taken some people's advice earlier instead of wasting a greater portion of my time in WoE x.x.

If anyone is interested in how I went about it, for . . .

Briarieus , I would just shout " NM Briarieus Farm + Kill +2 item[ 0/2 ] +2 item [0/2] get WHM BLU BLM/brd THF WAR for those slots ( Can overlook blu if people are ok with that ), oddly enough people came and stayed for hours which helped me get 23 helms the first night, and 27 the other. Another effective thing to add is people wanting SA atma and Zone Boss Clear, have them become a KI holder too, this sped things up greatly.

Sobek, before you start Sobek, try to look at your demographics and high times at guku camp, around 8am PST the japanese majority starts to fade and much less people are camping guku, you can then plan your shout sessions that way with the least amount of opposition. For incentive, you can offer the same, and 2 slots for the ones that only one can drop too, you'd think they wouldn't snag that but people bite that too while balance stone people drown in +2 items xD, some people come for the seals from sirrush and minax and willing to become a KI holder too and not lot the +2's. Alot of people who joined my pickup runs tend to come from FC groups with pops already, or at the very least have guku in their KI list so this helped me get 32 skins the 3rd night XD.

Hope this helps any one looking to do kannagi instead of wasting time in Woe for an Ok... weapon, with the time spent on WoE you can get a vastly greater weapon with a bit more effort instead of zombying things all day long in WoE.

I agree with most of the people who want to make the coins trade able at 2:1 or even 3:1, I don't understand why SE is making it difficult to get a sub-empyrean weapon X.x

Imo, the current system is fine. The weapons are easier and more accessible than their stronger counterparts. People saying otherwise because they have an army of tools working for them. The current system is easy enough as it is. You can practically get 5-7 weapons in ~80 runs. Don't make any hasty change, I think in a few months, we will see a lot more people get their WoE weapons done.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

I think the majority are fine with helping out crafter's. I craft myself, and while none of the WoE drops pertain two my leveled crafts I have happily put the stuff I received on the AH, and made a bit of cash. What people don't want are things like bone chips, and revival roots.

In regards to people asking for coins to be bazaarable I'm not a fan of that. 3:1 ratio will keep people coming to the event. If coins are sold through bazaar's as well as dice the event will fade to low attendance a lot faster imo.

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I feel the same way. Maybe even a 5-1 ratio just to keep people coming back.

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Originally Posted by Vitus

Imo, the current system is fine. The weapons are easier and more accessible than their stronger counterparts. People saying otherwise because they have an army of tools working for them. The current system is easy enough as it is. You can practically get 5-7 weapons in ~80 runs. Don't make any hasty change, I think in a few months, we will see a lot more people get their WoE weapons done.

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Are you doing those 80 runs solo? By the way solo means no one else in the zone not you outside of a party.

I think he means, jump into fluxes that have people in it, swing a few times, die, and zombie a few more times, and pop some abilities for brownie points and afk till the end. Win

Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Junk.
Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Iron Ore.
Vitus Obtained a Wad of used Toilet Paper.
Vitus Obtained a Coin of Ruined Afternoon.
Vitus Obtained a Galka Molar.

I just don't understand the people defending the event like they made a logical step forward <_<

they took a few steps forward to get everyone involved and such, great, but then they fell backwards, stumbled, and rolled down back down the hill with these junk drops... The looong wait.... and a time sink only for those people looking to make specific weapons.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Are you doing those 80 runs solo? By the way solo means no one else in the zone not you outside of a party.

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The current system is designed so that you won't have to.
If you could just run in and finish your weapon in 3 days, then no one would be doing Walk of Echoes in two months once the price of scrolls crashes.

No one will be doing WoE in 3 months because it's easier and less time consuming to make an emp. The La Thien paths were already easier then the WoE versions and now all paths are easier. Any emp can be level 90 in a week without even trying too hard. Finishing a WoE weapon in a week would be pure hell and probably impossible unless you get lucky with the right pouch dropping.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

The current system is designed so that you won't have to.
If you could just run in and finish your weapon in 3 days, then no one would be doing Walk of Echoes in two months once the price of scrolls crashes.

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And the point is if you can't actually solo it then it isn't faster than Emp weapons. Considering many of them can actually be soloed depending on your job options.

Now when you're factoring in other people helping you in WoE you have to consider a few things:
1) All Emp NMs drop +2s
2) Most NMs leading to the Emp NM drop Seals
3) All Emp drops are 100% for 1 and decent enough for 2 even without TH.

These first 2 things are reason enough for people to join you in your Emp journey. So in the end when you need more people Emps become much faster than WoE weapons all it takes is willingness to lead.

And that's the point, right now as it stands the only reasons to make a WoE weapon are:
1) You like to torture yourself.
2) You're actually farming WoE for money items.

If these aren't your reasons for getting a WoE weapon then you should be making an Emp because its better and takes less time.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The second biggest problem is that effort does not appear linked to rewards. If this isn't true, some reassurance will help, and players will get statistical samples to back this up, eventually.

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You have to be careful with this. While I do not want someone who contributes very little to the fight to be able to receive the best rewards, the link between "effort" and rewards needs to be viewed more carefully than it has in the past. It is more difficult for some jobs to score as highly as others just based on the nature of the job. And while we know that many people are just out for themselves, we don't want to create a situation where we encourage them to act even more selfishly in order to rank higher.

I am starting to think it is programmed to know which trials you have open and does not give you those. I am doing bow and h2h trials, those are the two coins I just never get. I keep getting birth and ruin coins with odd glory.
Sometimes I really wonder if they do stuff like that just to drag it out. If I started a staff i would have probable got decays

It would be nice if you could do something like that trading boxes for XP thing in Abyssea. Like, if you open your chest at the end and it's full of trash, you can have the option of feeding it to Atomos/trading to Kupofried and he spits you out extra XP, or gives the choice of one of three random coins. That way at least you're guaranteed a coin, with three chances of it being the one you want. That way you're not filling up your inventory with bone chips like a chump, and you've still got a chance at a scroll of Comet all to yourself.

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Originally Posted by Eradius

I smell so much Tanaka in this new update that its hard to breathe.

Please make it clear that the system implemented simply does not reward the players. And as previously stated, we will not be playing WoE forever. Making it harder on people who want rewards from it.

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Or maybe they are listening to the few hardcore players complaining about content being to easy. I bet if could take a poll of all the players most would want more abyssea style content where drops are not as random as they use to be pre abyssea.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

Or maybe they are listening to the few hardcore players complaining about content being to easy. I bet if could take a poll of all the players most would want more abyssea style content where drops are not as random as they use to be pre abyssea.

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Grind =/= Difficult. VW has some genuinely difficult content but unfortunately it also has the worst drop system of any event ever probably in any MMO in history. So, it's not only challenging/fun it's also a soul crushing nigh impossible grind to get the gear or HMPs you want from it. WoE is pure mindless chaotic grind. It's neither challenging or fun. Grinds are put in MMOs for the same reason they put nicotine in cigarettes. It makes something of little to no value addictive and keeps your money flowing. It's cheap shoddy game design and I really hoped those days were over for FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Lyrminas

I think he means, jump into fluxes that have people in it, swing a few times, die, and zombie a few more times, and pop some abilities for brownie points and afk till the end. Win

Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Junk.
Vitus Obtained a Chunk of Iron Ore.
Vitus Obtained a Wad of used Toilet Paper.
Vitus Obtained a Coin of Ruined Afternoon.
Vitus Obtained a Galka Molar.

I just don't understand the people defending the event like they made a logical step forward <_<

they took a few steps forward to get everyone involved and such, great, but then they fell backwards, stumbled, and rolled down back down the hill with these junk drops... The looong wait.... and a time sink only for those people looking to make specific weapons.

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Nice story telling... on the contrary, the real story is quite different. Good try bud.
Here is the true version: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...0925140451.jpg
And this is totally true one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...927182820.jpg/

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Originally Posted by Zagen

And the point is if you can't actually solo it then it isn't faster than Emp weapons. Considering many of them can actually be soloed depending on your job options.

Now when you're factoring in other people helping you in WoE you have to consider a few things:
1) All Emp NMs drop +2s
2) Most NMs leading to the Emp NM drop Seals
3) All Emp drops are 100% for 1 and decent enough for 2 even without TH.

These first 2 things are reason enough for people to join you in your Emp journey. So in the end when you need more people Emps become much faster than WoE weapons all it takes is willingness to lead.

And that's the point, right now as it stands the only reasons to make a WoE weapon are:
1) You like to torture yourself.
2) You're actually farming WoE for money items.

If these aren't your reasons for getting a WoE weapon then you should be making an Emp because its better and takes less time.

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It's not supposed to take less time, it's supposed to be easier - which it is.
Think OAT mid-damage magian path vs. OA2-4 path.