Do something about the AH and lower level gear????

use conquest gear.... quit being a noob and look it up

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

use conquest gear.... quit being a noob and look it up

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How do i shot conquest?

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Originally Posted by Selzak

Who's arguing that the AH is the only way to acquire gear?

Btw thanks for pointing something out that was contextually pointed to only one of your examples.

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Maybe you haven't been reading all the posts here, but a large part of this thread is complaining about the lack of gear in the starter and Jueno AH's, and the flat out refusal to consider NPC gears, or the concept of either crafting something themsleves or requesting crafting assistance for the items they want. Ever stop to think that if crafters start seeing a lot of shouts/tells/lschat requesting gears in certain sets or certain level ranges that they might actually start to provide some of it?

And the context has been consistent. People just refuse to accept the fact that things are already in place for new players, they just refuse to use it. I'm not the only one that has been trying to point it out...please forgive those of us that have actually been trying to inform people of the alternative options to getting adequate gear from the AH.

I have been trying to provide examples and links to information for those that may not have it already. Throughout this entire thread, only TWO people have given something specific for us to explore to compare/contrast the options available.

What is the solution being pushed in this thread? Changing the entire Vendor, or crafting, or AH system (or a mix of them)? What is my solution? Learn how to use the EXISTING SYSTEM to meet your goals....just what is so bad about that?

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Originally Posted by blowfin

The point is that if the AH had decent stock levels, it's a far more efficient and convenient way to get your gear than crafting it yourself or having someone else craft it for you. I'm sure people are well aware that there are other means of getting gear. You're pretty much insulting people's intelligence by repeatedly implying they don't know you can craft weapons and armor.

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It's not that I think they don't know.. they just write it off like it's not an option, when in fact it is common practice.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

What is my solution? Learn how to use the EXISTING SYSTEM to meet your goals....just what is so bad about that?

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If you genuinely think that the people in this thread don't know how crafting or conquest points work, then nothing is bad about it. Thanks for your help, we understand now.

However, it isn't a solution it's a remedy. We're discussing something that is broken and you're telling us how to live without it. No one is arguing with you if you're just telling us that items are obtainable before they go on the AH, and I'm not sure that you've informed anyone of anything that they didn't already know- but if that was your intention, then I apologize for having the wrong impression about your posts.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

I guess you haven't been around long enough to see half of the jobs on the game be nerfed at some point?

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SE quit nerfing jobs when they took the new approach where players actually mattered. The age of harsh nerfs because the devs didn't forsee events playing out are over. Besides the RDM sleep/dispel/bind "nerf", everything has been steady improvement for all jobs.

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While I agree that there would be some backlash (I've taken advantage of Abyssea leeching myself, especially for subs), I think that the overall balance of the game has been damaged far too much to just count our losses. This is different because it effects everyone and not a single job, but the game's history does include comparable situations that at least provide some insight into how big the impact would be.

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There are various things SE could do besides imposing a nerf in Abyssea. Alternatives are superior to pointless nerfs that only further force older players out the door. You want to give people multiple options instead of taking away options.

-Make certain zones of Campaign like Bastion - fast EXP, low time investment. Cater certain areas to fit certain level caps.

-Create NPCs that warp players directly to ENMs/BCNMs, lower resets to 1/day and reward EXP for clearing BCNMs.

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Taking Abyssea away completely, yeah that would cause a lot of harm. Taking away the ability to readily leech a job from 30-90 would only upset people who already take this game so seriously that they probably wouldn't quit anyway. At the end of the day, the game would be much better off if it was structured so that people actually play in parties for the bulk of a job's progression again.

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Party play is over. Even before Abyssea, the idea of an EXP party was on its knees. Either SE revamps the old systems to make them of any use or they will continue to sit idle. The greater problem is at the top end where content is lacking rather than at the bottom where very few people care.

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You do bring up a good point when you talk about content that has already been beaten to death, and this is why more needs to be done (ontop of raising the cap on Abyssea) to revamp but not eliminate the traditional experience. Whether that is incentive based, new content, or all of the above...people need reasons to do it. The EXP boost was great, but not quite enough.

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The problem in XI atm is twofold. You have a lack of being able to the cap without leeching that could and should be addressed via adjustments to old systems and the greater problem of introducing new content to keep people playing.

In a top heavy game, priority should be towards all new content. A nerf on Abyssea access benefits no one and would not make people use the current slow systems, it'd just simply be the middle finger to quit the game.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

What is the solution being pushed in this thread? Changing the entire Vendor, or crafting, or AH system (or a mix of them)? What is my solution? Learn how to use the EXISTING SYSTEM to meet your goals....just what is so bad about that?

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You don't need to change the entire vendor system to revise the prices on some of their gear, and what they carry. That, along with the merging of AHs, is probably going to sort out most of the problems.

I guess the question is - do you want this game to be friendly to absolutely new players y/n?

Cause if you want it to be friendly to new players, saying "look up the ingredients on a third party site then shout in Jeuno (which you may never have even been to) for a crafter high enough to make it" is counter-intuitive.

As far as I can tell people arguing against much needed adjustments on the grounds that someone could craft it... well, they might as well be arguing the game never needs new players ever.

This isn't 2003 anymore. People expect certain things from a non free-to-play mmo. Look at XIV - half the reason it is a complete mess is because SE thought they could pull the same crap they pulled in 2003 in 2010. The fact is, they can't. That's why they aren't charging subs - because people logged in when the game went live and couldn't buy anything but a level 1 weapon and weren't really interested in waiting three months for the crafters to catch up to demand.

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Originally Posted by Ayasha

Crafters won't make something that isn't worth their time to make. It's simple economics. Demand is low for low tier items, so there's no necessity or incentive to make them...
...There's two options available: Make it yourself, or offer crafters something worth their while to spend their time to make said item.

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One of the major problems with crafting is the difficulty in finding even BASIC materials which makes materials expensive on the AH or tedious to obtain, which makes crafting not worth it, which makes making money difficult, which makes crafting no longer worth it because the market players (for example: new players or players on new jobs wanting low level gear) don't have enough money.
Inventory stacking issues aside for carrying the materials, crafting materials are just too difficult and/or tedious to get a hold of to make even the simplest items.

It is true that first the variety of ammunition disappeared (poison bolts for example) and just last night I could not find any decent armor for nin42 to level up my subjob now that main is almost 90. Is this a result of fewer players and/or fewer players who craft? If so, the pending server merger may be all we need. If that is not enuf, we need to ask the development team to give us some relief in the next upgrade (u know, the equivalent of a Federal bailout...lol) by lowering the crafting requirements or raising how many items can be created with the same old ingredients or even stock the NPC's or AH themselves with items or make the drops more valuable or put more items in the treasure chests, the same way that they have made getting exp and skillups easier to get. Any other ideas?

GamerGuy it all depends on the server - merges will help - so will merging AH's together - however - I am of the belief more needs to be done, namely - increasing skill ups on crafts (preferably to at least 0.1 per synth) - which would encourage more players both old and new to level up crafting and/or putting more gear at a fair price on NPCs.

The truth of the matter is players of a modern mmo expect to be able to get gear when they need it - camping the auction house or having to beg a crafter to make what they need are just not on for most gamers. If that is what they need to do to be decently geared - they will quit and play rift or a game where the population is not all at max level/uninterested in new players

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Any other ideas?

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There's plenty of them in here.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ll-Limitations

The idea of all these other Systems, NPCs, Conquest Points, Etc, is to Mesh with the Auction house. They are a collaborative effort in collecting Armor. They are there for the strict purpose that if you can't find what you want on AH, Chances are if you look around you will find the armor at an NPC or at a Conquest Points NPC. All these things are there to obtain armor, Utilize all of them!

Auction house should always be a primary stop when looking for armor, But SE has Secondary Stops, and beyond. The Conquest NPCs and Shops are there for when the AH Isn't providing. And really, Most crafters are pretty nice people, Not all of them mind you, but most are willing to craft some small item for a new player if the new player asks nice enough. Its just a matter of finding one. FFXIAH used to have a "Find a Crafter" option on their item pages, IDK if they do anymore.

You can always use the AH to buy the materials, and find a crafter to help you. you could even HQ. FFXI is a collaborative effort between Community, AH, NPC, Crafters, Etc etc. You must utilize all of them, Not rely solely on one. For instance, The other day i needed a pair of Tigerfangs for my Automaton Frame, None in stock. I Bought the Items off AH to craft it, and went to farm a Scorpion Shell cause none in stock. Came back with 2 Shells, The First on HQ'd so i couldn't use it, Second one NQ'd and i put it to use. They person did not ask for a reward, But i let them keep the HQ and gave em 50k for being helpful. You don't have to tip, I did cause they were very nice, friendly, and even waited for me to get a Scorpion shell. Crafters are nice people, don't be afraid to ask for help. (BTW, I shouted in port jeuno for the crafter)

The auction House Merge should help, But its also up to to the player to get the item they want. Buy ahead too. For instance, I just purchased a pair of T.M Hooks +2 (Check Asura Server: Mule WilliamRiker) for 100k, My PUP is only 33, But when i get to 50 I'll have them ready. I prepared ahead. If i didn't get them when i got to that level, I would have bought a NQ, AH or NPC, and had it crafted. HQ or NQ it would be nice to use.

Its been said so much before but if it wasn't for the easy leveling of abyssea most people wouldn't have even touch alot of the jobs. When jobs like rdm and whm main role expected by the player base from 1 to 75 is cure/buff why do it two times. DDs play the same in parties, engage biuld tp WS repeat. Tanks engage spam spells or voke to get hate if you even bother to invite one in the first place. Alot of these jobs people had already had at 37+. So really what logic are people using when they say making abyssea 70 or what ever going to help low lvl gear, cause even if they did make it that way would it really increase people crafting low gear when gil is so easy to get its just not worth the time to make the gear.

SE could always auto add like 1 of every piece of gear every set time, up to a certain limit. It could be for a certain level group or maybe certain days of the week will add certain things to the AH.

"Some people in this thread seem to believe that new players have the intelligences of 5 year olds. I'm sure if they wanted to know something they would look it up. Most people have access to the Internet....especially people who are playing an online game".

I hate to say it, but there are a lot of players exactly like this. How many times the questions are asked "how do I do this", "what do I need for that", "where do I have to go", "I don't have a map", "what do I need to do for this quest/mission", etc, etc.

Before I bought a laptop, I printed everything out that I thought I might want to do on any given day or if I knew our LS was going to do something.

There is plenty of information out there for anyone to use. Imagine what is was like for the first ever players of FFXI, no wiki guides, nothing.

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Originally Posted by Olor

The truth of the matter is players of a modern mmo expect to be able to get gear when they need it - camping the auction house or having to beg a crafter to make what they need are just not on for most gamers. If that is what they need to do to be decently geared - they will quit and play rift or a game where the population is not all at max level/uninterested in new players

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Sounds like a personal problem, and not a game design problem.

If this were as big an issue as you guys are making it, FFXI woulkd have never gotten off the ground in the first place.....

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Sounds like a personal problem, and not a game design problem.

If this were as big an issue as you guys are making it, FFXI woulkd have never gotten off the ground in the first place.....

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*COUGH* there is obviously an issue or they wouldn`t be merging the auction houses. It`s been mentioned countless times in this thread. I mean you can deny it all you like, but it doesn`t change the fact that we even got a post from the development team saying exactly that. Please stop implying people are lazy, either intentionally or unintentionally. It`s getting really old, and it`s making you look very rude.

Also, regarding your second statement. Expectations from MMO`s were far different when this game first got released. This is not 2003 anymore. New and returning players will be driven away by empty auction houses in 2011, its that simple.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Sounds like a personal problem, and not a game design problem.

If this were as big an issue as you guys are making it, FFXI woulkd have never gotten off the ground in the first place.....

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Times have changed. It is not 2002 anymore. The expectations of MMO players have changed.

Witness XIV. I'll tell you straight that a good number of the people that quit almost immediately did so because it was difficult to find the gear they wanted.

And I will also say - that 75% of not being able to find the gear (in the first two weeks to a month especially) was due not to the horrific market system (which was horrific) - but because crafters hadn't gotten high enough to make it yet. So even if there had been an AH (for the sake of argument lets pretend there was) - there would have been very few (if any) of the item up - so players would be SoL (like FFXI today on many servers for newer players).

It should have been obvious to people that they shouldn't expect to be well geared right away in a game where most equipment was made by players because the crafters would need to get high enough to make the items. They didn't care. I had one friend who couldn't find bone hora for his pugilist and pretty much quit on the spot.

Knowing why the items aren't there doesn't lessen the frustration of being unable to gear your character properly. And no, telling someone to spend 100,000 in gil (and probably 1 week or more of playtime - not counting time spent farming gil/mats) leveling a craft to make a single piece of equipment is not a very good answer either - and it is totally senseless to oppose changes if established players don't think it is worth their time to help make the market work.

If you don't want to make what we have work - then don't oppose development changes which would adapt the market to the current reality for new players.

And honestly - which is more lazy - wanting to be able to spend the money you worked hard to earn on gear so you can work your character up in level and become part of the gaming community?

Or having a craft/multiple crafts leveled and REFUSING to supply the market for a small profit because it is easier to buy things with cruor and then npc them?

The hypocrisy is stunning.

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Originally Posted by Olor

And honestly - which is more lazy - wanting to be able to spend the money you worked hard to earn on gear so you can work your character up in level and become part of the gaming community?

Or having a craft/multiple crafts leveled and REFUSING to supply the market for a small profit because it is easier to buy things with cruor and then npc them?

The hypocrisy is stunning.

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Brofist

(/^_^)/\(^_^\)

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Or having a craft/multiple crafts leveled and REFUSING to supply the market for a small profit because it is easier to buy things with cruor and then npc them?

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Well, no profit at all, or a loss is probably more accurate. However that does raise an interesting point. Why should new players be expected to level up through the crafting system when its clear theres no market demand for most low and mid level gear apart for a single use on yourself?

Either way, another nail in the coffin for crafting being a good solution.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Well, no profit at all, or a loss is probably more accurate. However that does raise an interesting point. Why should new players be expected to level up through the crafting system when its clear theres no market demand for most low and mid level gear apart for a single use on yourself?

Either way, another nail in the coffin for crafting being a good solution.

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Most people i know who took up crafting didn't do it until they had a good high-farming job. Because its incredibly expensive and slow.

So even in a perfect world, Crafting as a Solution for new players is flawed. The Gil/items required for such things would be near unobtainable for new players. Really I think when people bring up leveling the craft to make the armor as a solution its insulting to new players. When i bet 99% of the people suggesting that probably didn't even know what crafting was until they were ~30+ >___>

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Most people i know who took up crafting didn't do it until they had a good high-farming job. Because its incredibly expensive and slow.

So even in a perfect world, Crafting as a Solution for new players is flawed. The Gil/items required for such things would be near unobtainable for new players. Really I think when people bring up leveling the craft to make the armor as a solution its insulting to new players. When i bet 99% of the people suggesting that probably didn't even know what crafting was until they were ~30+.

Even another Nail~

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Yup. From memory I looked at leveling crafts to make my own armor when I first started. Then I promptly decided that GS and Smithing (i started in Bastok) wouldnt reap any rewards until id invested a heap of gil, and that id rather kill things with my mate instead of farting about for weeks with synthing.

And that was in a healthy economy...

Peopel with crafting mules probably started crafting at higher levels, but I know many that started it early like I did. I don't have a mule. I decided on day one that I wouldn't. I started crafting early--as I saw it's potential to save gil. I was determined to be as self sufficient as I could. I did it with items I got off mobs for the most part. It's not that hard if you do it right--there are even guides to walk you through doing it and earning gil. That was a choice I and many others made in the past, others apparently are not choosing too now. That makes it personal. Sorry if you think it's rude to say that... but it is factually true. So, as for the taking up crafting argument, new players starting new crafts and posting results in the starter AH's would be a good start to fixing the issue, just like it did in 2002. That is a viable player solution to a player generated issue--sorry if that again sounds rude, but it is true.

As for the veterans crafting--they no longer had an incentive to make the items, so they stopped. I stopped selling cermet chunks because they kept coming back. I made a few pots--they didnd't sell...and so and so and so forth. So, now I just npc the shards because I get more that way then I can in the AH. I've been trying to list drops for a profit above NPC prices in the AH--and they come back, so I just NPC them-=-those that can't be NPC'd, I bazaar for a while until I need th space and drop them. If people aren't wiling to buy for the price expected, than the item is eventually no longer produced/farmed and put on the AH. Pure and simple. If players need something--they need to let the players know so it can be provided by the players again. Plain and simple. Either they need to front the items, or be willing to pay a price for market sustainablility. Judging by the general tone of this thread...niether of those conditions exist. Again, that is a personal choice of the players--again, making it more a personal problem.

The lack of an AH in FFXIV was not what killed the enthusiasm for it. It was one of many things that disappointed would be players. Granted, it is an issue, but one that made it unplayable? If people were willing to adjust, they would have played it. As I have stated before--the wonkiness of the UI and various restrictions frustrated me...so close to FFXI, yet enough different to mess with my head, so I opted to go back to FFXI. My issue with that game was base playability moreso than the fact I'd have to make my own crap--that just adds an extra dimension to the play style. My issues were with the raw mechanics and functions in the game that I just wasn't ready to commit to learning at the time--maybe when I'm done with FFXI I'll take it up, but not going to do both at one time. I could do both just fine, and learn to like it. Them adding an AH, or streamlining the UI won't bring me back to it--I am just choosing not to right now. Personal choice.

And the merger of the AH wasn't done specifically for the new breed of players. This has been requested from the playerbase for YEARS. It is more to streamline the system requested by and being implemented more for the existing playerbase. They just recently realized there appears to be a decline in the markets to the point it is creating angst among new players. The decision to do this was under consideration long before this debate cropped up. A lot of things had to run through the process in the dev. circles before they got the go ahead on this.

Regardless if you are pro/con to tweaking things--consider this. If it is sooooo bad, and new players are leaving in droves over it.... why are we regularly picking up new players in our LS, and why do I routinely see people trying to form Dunes and Qufim parties (and not veteran players I might add--people in dunes without subjobs)? It would appear that in spite of the difficulty, people are managing to find gear and get along somehow...

Admittedly I did not read the entire post and i apologize. But i just wanna comment on the last paragraph.

I think you're focusing entirely too much on "Its easy enough shut up noob" than thinking about how it would improve the quality of new players, and their experience in FFXI. If you check my jobs on FFXIAH, I have all of them ~30+, Most of them 90. I party at low levels often and you would not believe how often i hear players saying they enjoy the game, But its too hard to find good gear, Or its too hard to find a good item to farm, or simply asking the party wheres a good spot to farm/etc cause they can't find good ways to make gil, or the armor they want isn't in stock and they cannot find a crafter willing to do it without expecting a large tip.

Yes, Some people persevere, These are people who probably have friends/help. Not everyone plays this game immediately having friends/Linkshells/etc to guide them to the right shops, Show them how to farm, give them gil/items. There are probably just as many new players who end up quitting by ~lv20 because Stuff was too hard and no one would help them, as there are new people you find joining your LS.

I'm not saying its "SUPER HARD BRO", I'm only saying an Improvement to Low-level gear systems, how to obtain armor, Or even adding armor like the Suggestion in the other thread about low level gear, Can only serve to Improve the QUALITY of players that level range, and how much they Enjoy the game.

I don't feel its such a catastrophe if new players can get gear easier than us, Or have a simpler time getting armor without having to resort to bribbing a crafter, Praying they're high enough rank in Conquest or paying someone to spend their CP (which fat chance If you're a level15 Bastokan WHM in bastok, you're going to randomly find a Windurstian willing to pony up for Windy gear for your Mage job), or just plain being forced to NQ it up with Crappy NPC Gear, which btw, does not include Rings, Earrings, back, Belt, or Neck armor. (For the most part!)

It Is hard for new players who do not have friends, or Linkshells to help them a long, A system in place to aid those low level players should be considered. It won't harm, Why does it matter if its gets implemented or not.

Truthfully I wish that they had Implemented a System like the one suggest here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l-gear-problem.

When i was Getting my Maat's Cap, i would not have had to camp the AH 3 days in advance just to get the item i wanted.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I'm not saying its "SUPER HARD BRO", I'm only saying an Improvement to Low-level gear systems, how to obtain armor, Or even adding armor like the Suggestion in the other thread about low level gear, Can only serve to Improve the QUALITY of players that level range, and how much they Enjoy the game.

I don't feel its such a catastrophe if new players can get gear easier than us, Or have a simpler time getting armor without having to resort to bribbing a crafter, Praying they're high enough rank in Conquest or paying someone to spend their CP (which fat chance If you're a level15 Bastokan WHM in bastok, you're going to randomly find a Windurstian willing to pony up for Windy gear for your Mage job), or just plain being forced to NQ it up with Crappy NPC Gear, which btw, does not include Rings, Earrings, back, Belt, or Neck armor. (For the most part!)

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This is exactly it - I don't understand the resistance to making things a bit easier on new players. The hardest part of the game shouldn't be finding an appropriate weapon for your job at your level - the challenge should be in the gameplay not in trying to navigate a byzantine economy.

again... all of that is a player issue, not a game design issue. We are dealing with limited resources for development, and there are likely much more important things to work on that the players have no control over. This IS something the PLAYERS can fix...the call should be more for veterans to assist. A large number of us are trying already, just not enough.

If these new players are the type to just quit when it gets hard, then a lot of them will drop off when they get to TAU levels if they aren't leeching in abyssea. So, you are just lobbying to delay the inevitable.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

again... all of that is a player issue, not a game design issue. We are dealing with limited resources for development, and there are likely much more important things to work on that the players have no control over. This IS something the PLAYERS can fix...the call should be more for veterans to assist. A large number of us are trying already, just not enough.

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Your arguments up to now have been quite rational, but the idea that anything we do on here is going to someone convince thousands of crafters to start pumping the AH Full of low level gear is an absurdity. The reality is there will never be enough crafters making unprofitable slow selling low level armor to completely erase the "problem". I'm not saying we need a solution right now, but As i said in one of my previous posts in this thread or the other one."...Again",

"I Think we should wait until the Auction house Merging and see how it playes out. If there is still the problem/complaints about it from new players, We should consider an alternative solution away from "Crafting"."

To which i found the Solution offered in the other thread would be a decent idea. It involves a current hot-item in low leveling (Fields of Valor) and has realistic implementations.

But anyway, One of the Reps has been going around to a lot of the popular threads saying basically "We're working on a lot of stuff now, Theres no development time to implement a lot of suggestions right now.". or thats what i get. It seems like we can't expect anything we suggest here to be added until next year, or when the current Roadmap ends.

So i'm game with not continue this discussion any further. You in? We can continue it 12 months from now :P

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Your arguments up to now have been quite rational

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We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.

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I quite enjoy attempting to keep my conversations with a certain sense of Nice-ness :|

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Originally Posted by blowfin

We're 23 pages in, there's hardly anything rational about his arguments anymore when they've been taken apart by countless people, yet he keeps coming back saying the same thing.

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IDK about being taken apart, but whatever...I just believe in taking a more proactive stance rather than sitting around waiting for someone else to do it for me. And I'm not the only one with this outlook--the very first reply in the thread was pretty much just defiant to the OP. Mine was trying to show what is out there, and what is coming. Since then I've been trying to show how people can make the existing system work--and I've been constantly attacked for it. Nevermind that it is a system that is known to work for those who pursue these option, as supported by others in the thread.

I'm just stating facts about the game--showing what is available, so people can see just exactly what options already exist to compare and contrast to what others are proposing, and make an informed decision. There is no denying that there are already options currently available to provide adequate gear.

This debate has come about simply because people stopped freely offering their wares on the AH, and there is a small group of people still expecting them to do it for free, a loss, or next to nothing--there is no reason to think that those items cannot still be made by SOMEONE in the game, just either no one is providing the incentive to make them or simply isn't asking nicely. When my perspective on the issue has been challenged with an example, I have gathered up the information and presented the facts. At least I am providing details and links for people to actually SEE what is out there already and not just saying:

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Make it profitable for crafters to craft.

If you don't want to pay more money than what is obviously not attracting sales on AH, don't complain!

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Again, this was the the very first reply in the thread. I put forth the effort to actually support the idea of using other options already in the game, and I get attacked for it--continually throughout the thread. It's almost as if they think it is someone else's responsibility to gear their toons and not themselves. If this is the general attitude of the in-game personalities of some of these players, that might explain why some may be having trouble getting assistance...but that is a whole other debate.

And speaking of some info, here is something I just looked up in the Jueno data on accounts that have been actively trading the last 30 days (for the most part, since the servers came back online). I searched each craft skill individually for people in Recruit Rank (11-20). This is the crafting skill range to make a ton of gear up to round level 15-17. It was just my server first, then out of curiosity, I looked it up against all servers:

69 smith (2000+ all servers)
16 cloth (560 all servers)
29 alch (1061 all servers)
48 wood (1455 all servers)
50 Gold (1309 all servers)
32 leather (868 all servers)
28 bone (901 all servers)
28 Cook (944 all servers)

That is a lot of people with a good foundation for crafting low level gears, with potential to easily move on to 20+ stuff for skillups if they want to take them further. Up to level 20, you are able to turn a lot of raw mats into items used to make higher tier stuff (cotton>thread>cloth>gear). It's possible the numbers are just as good or even better at higher levels as a lot of higher craft items require subcrafts in the 20+ range as well. So...I did another search for getting something more specific made:

Lvl 29 Seer's Tunic set: A single player must have 29 Bone, 25 Leather, 26 Cloth to be at or above the caps to make every one of these pieces.
57 (1778 all servers)

At the time of searching, I found 2 NA people listed as online at roughly 4:30 AM Eastern. On my server alone, there are up to 76 people getting close to being able to make at least 1 of these pieces for skillups, and over 2000 across all servers.

And here's another one I forgot about from earlier in the thread: the level 46 Bone Knife (41 Bonecraft). Level 38 onecraft can make reliably (38-40 can make easily with support and get skillups)
88 (2000+ all servers)

This begs the question: if you don't want or can't get vendor/cp items, is it really all that hard to find someone who can make stuff for lower level jobs?

{DisclaimerII: Please not a lot of time i reference the word "You" or the like in this argument. This does not necessarily apply to "You" but "You as a general public" not you specifically}

Not all new players have the gil to fork over 50k for some +1 Armor because crafter don't feel its profitable enough.

I have a hard enough time spending that on the best leg armor for low levels (Republic Subligar). Which is still amazing and fast selling, Yet rarely is on the auction house... Its nearly 200% profit too...

I'm sorry but "Pay more of blow me" isn't a good argument when it comes to new players. Most will not have the gil to pay for all this, and there is where the problem is. Yes i know "GO FARM YOU'RE LAZY" again why do you care if new players can more easily access meaningful gear without hours of farming and hoping its on the AH?

I'll say this again so i don't get to far ahead of myself:

I think we should wait until the AH Merger, See if that solves the problem. If it doesn't and it still persists, we should look into solutions that move away from the AH and crafters.

Sometimes the solution isn't "Fill the crafters pockets with more gil". I'm not saying i want them to put this stuff up for little-to-no-profit, Thats insane. I'm only saying if this merger doesn't fix it. The solution needs to be found away from Crafting, Not toward it. Cause as you there yourself claim, the very first post is probably reflected on 90% of crafters. Until low-level players are willing to pay out-the-ass for low level gear, There won't be a market.

Edit: while you can /sea across 2500 people and find 2 people online with the craft you need. Did you happen to send either a tell and say "Hey, I"m a new player in bastok mines. Can you come here to bastok, Craft something, for little to no profit?"

I bet if you had, You would either be Ignored or gotten "I'm Busy". I don't deny you're the type of guy who would go out of their way to help others, So Am i. Go look at the "Fay Crozier" page on FFXIAH and come back. I crafted dozens of those, FOR FREE, back when they were more than 200% profit.

But as its plainly obvious by the man you yourself quoted, unless We're ready to be extorted, Low level armor is going to remain scarce. We need to look away from crafting. Cause I cannot blame crafters for wanting to make a profit, I can't, But some/all new players won't have the gil to pay out the-behind for These things, so we'd be back to square one.

Yes, I know its a "player" problem, but it doesn't mean it cannot warrant a Dev-Solution. Its no skin off my back if new players don't have to jump through hoops to gear up, Why is it to you?

Low level crafted gear offers little over what you can buy off NPC/CPs. Only till you get to higher level does gear make a differance. Food makes up for alot more then gear will at low level, which once the merge happens will be easy to get at any level.

If low level players want to decrease the cost of armor, they can increase the supply of the materials. Not only will they earn some gil, but their gil will go further if it becomes less of a headache to craft armor.

We're not working in a vacuum. The primary cause for increased shelf price and lower supply of Armor is the increased material price, which directly stems from a decrease in supply caused by RMT no longer flooding the market. Making crafting viable for a profit does not always mean paying increased prices for finished goods; it can also directly translate to decreasing the costs of materials.

Granted, there are more efficient ways to make gil even at low levels compared to harvesting/mining. However, the indirect benefit to gathering becomes the decreased cost of goods. Sure, everyone on a server can farm beehive chips and make gil quickly (this is an example, I don't know what the heck those sell for any more), but their increased income is going to be spent buying inflated goods. It's a conscious choice that the market makes.

With that said, I also agree that the AH merge may be vastly beneficial to this process. If for no other reason than the fact that players in starter cities will now be able to list materials bought from Guild NPCs instantly on the Jeuno AH.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viion

I really think SE should make an NPC in each of the dedicated areas to sell gear around that level.

For example:
Nations 1-30?
Selbina/Mhaura 10-20
Jeuno 20-50
Norg/Rabao etc 50-60.
and so on

Make them affordable, but reduce the sellable price so people cant exploit.

I find it very difficult to get gear as a new player.

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*this*! just for the basics. there is plenty of rare/ex to help fill in gaps and give buffs, but a solid base of plain gear to help new players get powered up so they can be strong enough to earn the nicer stuff would be great. Gil may not matter when you get to endgame, but it's an uphill battle early in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Low level crafted gear offers little over what you can buy off NPC/CPs. Only till you get to higher level does gear make a differance. Food makes up for alot more then gear will at low level, which once the merge happens will be easy to get at any level.

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This is flat out untrue, Its because this armor is so rare that makes it ALL the more precious. and its not only about craftable armors. Its just crafting happens to be the hot-topic. I'm also talking more about armor in general not being on the Auction house. Like the following.

Compound Eye Circlet.
Brass hairpins +1
Sage's Circlet
Kingdom bandana
Republic Circlet
Bone Armor+1 set
Beetle Armor+1 set
Republic Cap
Chache-nez
Traveler's Hat
Garrison armor set (Hey, a tie in to the "low-end content till high-end content" Thread)

Thats just up to level 20, and only looking through head armor. Each one of those has Stats that are important to low levels, HP, MP, INT, Etc. All may seem insignificant, but at those levels its because of their scarceness that they're so valuable, and in todays world, half of those armors are rarely ever on the Auction house.

Some legs off the top of my head.

Federation Slops
Baron's Armor set
Mage's Slacks.

Thats up to level ~20 as well

For Body... Items like:

Campaign Level 1 Armor .
Kenpogi +1 (offers DEX+1)
Power Gi
Republic Harness
Kingdom Vest
Kingdom Tunic
Priests Robe

This doesn't even account for Accessories. Black Neckerchief, Spike Necklace, Bone/Beetle Earrings+1, STR/DEX/ETC Rings, Belts like Priests Rope, Warriors Belt/+1, Brave Belt, Besieger's Mantle, etc. some of those offer amazing benefits to low level players. Food goes a long way, So does armor with meaningful stats. Look at items like "Mighty Ring" with Attack+5 Enchantment. or the Acc+2 Enchantment DEX ring. Amazing benefits.

Gear does make a difference at that level, Especially gear that offers DEX/STR/INT/MP/HP because at low levels that makes a lot of difference. The best level 20BLM in the best INT gear he can get will out-nuke a new player forced to buy NQ-NPC crap by 10's of Damage. while that seems laughable low, you have to consider the Average nuke at that level is ~20-50 Damage. The difference between 20~50 and 40~70 is significant that level, as much as at level 90 the difference between 200~500 and 400~700 is.

I know when i leveled BLM i made it my goal to deck myself out, Black Silk Neckerchief, HQ Armor with a little bit of INT+1 on it, I had to camp Ah days in advance to find this armor, and even then I had trouble getting a lot of it. But i could out-nuke a newb BLM who was forced into NQ Gear cause he didn't have the resources i had (Millions of gil, Friends, Etc) by 20~30 Damage a nuke or more. The difference is noticeable, especially because of how rare it is that level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

With that said, I also agree that the AH merge may be vastly beneficial to this process. If for no other reason than the fact that players in starter cities will now be able to list materials bought from Guild NPCs instantly on the Jeuno AH.

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I think this will be a monumental step, My only argument is that if this doesn't fix it completely, Our solution needs to be found away from crafting/relying on the AH for low level players. I think us Established players take friends, linkshells, Gil, Ability to farm, Knowledge of farming spots all for granted.

Even the best knowledgeable player right now who starts as a newb, will still need to be level ~20 and in Jeuno to make a meaningful profit on anything, enough to pay the prices Crafters want from low level armor.

I feel like the Merger will solve a lot however.

Again all those stats can be made up for in food except lol eva for that lvl. cream puffs 7 int and you can't out level it same with sushi meat dishs what not. Really there not that many new players, most of the low level players are returning players that should know bout food farming and the like. There will be fewer and fewer new players so why waste the dev time for something that not a big concern with all the options that all ready in game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Again all those stats can be made up for in food except lol eva for that lvl. cream puffs 7 int and you can't out level it same with sushi meat dishs what not. Really there not that many new players, most of the low level players are returning players that should know bout food farming and the like. There will be fewer and fewer new players so why waste the dev time for something that not a big concern with all the options that all ready in game.

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You seem to act as if those stats don't stack with food. They do, Actually. I can still eat Sushi if i'm wearing Mighty Rings. I can still eat Cream Puffs If i wear silk neckerchief. Just because food makes up for things at low levels doesn't mean those armors are any less important. For instance at low levels accuracy is still an issue. You could use Mighty Rings and Eat Sushi, or use the DEX+1(Acc2.Enhc) Rings and eat meat if you have some of the other HQ Armor.


Just because new players are in the minority doesn't mean they should be ignored. We've already through the last 23 pages discussed how the current systems in place are difficult or impossible to use for Low Level genuinely new players, then the only other option is NQ junk.

I'm not asking they divert all their resources to something like this, but they've fixed Low-level things in the past. Fields of Valor, Low-level Skill ups, the Double-Exp system (to a point), Signet-Bonuses, Etc. So it is possible to introduce a new means for low level players to find armor.

I want to once again reiterate, I Feel the Auction house Merger will solve 99% of Complaints, I'm only saying if it turns out it doesn't, resources (not a large amount) should be diverted to devising a way to make it easier for new players. Even if they're in the minority, They deserve attention just like High-level players do.