New weapons with higher base damage then relics

Depends on your resources.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I said it wasn't a status symbol to me, but something I worked hard on and was proud of. it wasn't so others could envy, but so i could feel happy with myself.

Plus, You should really look at the weapons and their augments, It'll answer that question for you... While few of them come out Clear 100% on the top, A lot of them crush the crap out of the 90~95 Empyrean, and even some of their 99 Relic counterparts.

Asymptotic Showed a particular good example of the Dagger that makes me cringe when i see it, and also the same one i said I would be more than happy to obtain. At least go back and make an effort to read my posts, I'm getting bored of speaking in circles about how I'm actually not disappointed in this so much as I am sad for my Mandau and the work i put into it.

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I should have been more clear I didn't mean you thought it was a status symbol to others or over others but one to you yourself. That symbolism will never change no matter what weapon is released.

Perhaps someone needs to call the Naakuals and ask them if they can be defeated with sentimental value.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Perhaps someone needs to call the Naakuals and ask them if they can be defeated with sentimental value.

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If there was no sentimental value in obtaining X item people wouldn't care about Y item. You'd get Y (might even use X to get it) and forget about using X.

Alternatively , people can be annoyed over wasted time/resources/capital. Is that a difficult concept to grasp ?

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Alternatively , people can be annoyed over wasted time/resources/capital. Is that a difficult concept to grasp ?

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Complaining about wasting your time doing something designed to waste your time, I love it!

I don't think it's so much that their time was wasted as much as their investment has lost value. The time was not wasted. My empies got several years of use out of me. Even if they get replaced, they were not wasted. However, they have lost value, and compared to other weapons, they required more work to complete.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

Complaining about wasting your time doing something designed to waste your time, I love it!

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Completely missing the point , I love it!

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I don't think it's so much that their time was wasted as much as their investment has lost value. The time was not wasted. My empies got several years of use out of me. Even if they get replaced, they were not wasted. However, they have lost value, and compared to other weapons, they required more work to complete.

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And someone working on a mythic with 80000 Ichor and 27000 alexandrite turned in that they've slowly accumulated? Also , since you used empies in plural, I assume you are talking about LV90 and below Empyreans?

I have everything for my mythic except alexandrite. I'm only 1/3 done with alexandrite. Still not sweating it.

And yeah, most of my empies are still only 90. Does that completely invalidate my opinion on the topic?

If you're talking about Carnwenhan that's not really applicable because its song duration effect is unique and is highly unlikely to be replaced by another weapon.

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Originally Posted by Zagen

I should have been more clear I didn't mean you thought it was a status symbol to others or over others but one to you yourself. That symbolism will never change no matter what weapon is released.

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That's true, Thanks for making it clear. Well, Lets put it this way, I like my accomplishment and While it won't ever truly take that away from me, I can't say i like how it feels to have that accomplishment sh*t on and rubbed in my face. I hope that explains it well, Cause I honestly got no better way to explain it.

While I'll always have the achievement, Theres more reasons to my upsetness, and thats all the time and effort i put into it and it may or may not become a mannequin ornament, when the whole reason I made it was so I could have a solid, permanent investment, which is what R/M/E were, for the longest time :\

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I have everything for my mythic except alexandrite. I'm only 1/3 done with alexandrite. Still not sweating it.

And yeah, most of my empies are still only 90. Does that completely invalidate my opinion on the topic?

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Doesn't invalidate it, Only that the effort required to take Empyreans to 99 eclipses getting it to 90, so its really hard to compare it to folks who have a 99.

On the other hand, the fact You're pretty much 75% Done with a Mythic and are still like "lulz oh well!", I've made my descision.

you're bonkers
Looney.
Crazy.
nutcake.
insane.
Geoffrey.

No but really I envy your ability to just move on like that, How old are you? I have a feeling when you start to get older you'll be cranky like us.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I said it wasn't a status symbol to me, but something I worked hard on and was proud of. it wasn't so others could envy, but so i could feel happy with myself.

Plus, You should really look at the weapons and their augments, It'll answer that question for you... While few of them come out Clear 100% on the top, A lot of them crush the crap out of the 90~95 Empyrean, and even some of their 99 Relic counterparts.

Asymptotic Showed a particular good example of the Dagger that makes me cringe when i see it, and also the same one i said I would be more than happy to obtain. At least go back and make an effort to read my posts, I'm getting bored of speaking in circles about how I'm actually not disappointed in this so much as I am sad for my Mandau and the work i put into it.

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I can understand and appreciate this -- and I feel people who put in that work should be compensated for it.

I just don't know that keeping those weapons as the pent-ultimate is how it should be handled. I'd prefer if the lv.99 EXP/Merit/Advancement system incorporate them and allow you to have them as equippable traits or something, so that any weapon you use benefits somehow from the fact you finished your Mandau.

Something like that would not only set RME wielders apart from those who didn't bother with them, but gives us ALL reasons to go back and get whichever of the three we haven't finished to 99. Keeps both old and new players working on the old content as well as removes the negative emotions attached to the necessary advancement of the game's equipment technology.

EDIT:

With the advent of the "Rune" concept, I'd love to see slots for "Talismen" or "Anywhere you go" Atma-like status you equip like BLU spells but that come from weapons/gear you extra the traits from. Each RME.99 could have its own unique attribute (or collection of attributes) lifted directly from the weapon. (In the case of the Mandau +40 ATK and Afterglow: Poison) as well as letting you permanently learn your RME WS's.

The game needs to respect and reward people who finished these weapons but I just don't see the point in pretending there's anything special about them beyond sentimental value when drunk and on a bet you could finish one in a few weeks if you really wanted to. (I almost unlocked Verethragna i na week, and only stopped because i started working on G.Sword skill pre-RUN)

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I had perfect attendence in my Dynamis linkshell for about 4 years before I was voted to be the sponsor for my gjallarhorn. After becoming sponsor, it took about half a year to finish. 4 and a half years for my gjallarhorn, plus the months it took me to do the level up trials (before Dynamis changes), and the months it took us to farm up enough marrow for all our relics. Let's just round that off and say 5 years of work are in my gjallarhorn.

Duardabla is better overall. Sure, gjallarballads are awesome, but this stupid, pink harp which takes around a month to get to 90, then 2 months of gil farming to complete stomps all over my 5 year investment. I'm ok with that. I'll just have to get myself a pink harp. Easy stuff compared to what I went through before.

Now, I haven't seen any actual reports of someone obtaining these new weapons. Do we know how long it takes to complete one?

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The best brds in the game will have, relic horn, empy harp, and mythic dagger. They didn't invalidate your weapon because horn and harp can be used in combination with each other and further enhanced by the mythic dagger.

I think what it boils down to is R/M/E Systems were fun, long term goals with a sense of a singular permanent weapon in a game of ever evolving equipment, some people found this very very interesting, others didn't. Even games like Guild Wars 2 have incorporated this...

Let me turn the tables here...I am kinda curious, How would you guys take it if Relics were buffed to go with these new weapons? I.E

Mandau getting DMG:68

Ragnarok getting DMG:188

Would any of these changes make Skirmish Weapons less "Awesome" In your guys eyes even if Relics still outclassed them? Or does the fact they outclass R/M/E the only thing that interest you in them? Thats the thing I think, the only reason people like this is because they have the potential to beat R/M/E.

Or am I wrong? If R/M/E were buffed to once again be better, Would that invalidate your interest in these weapons? If Relics were still better by ~3-5%, Would you no longer value these weapons amazing potential? I don't think these weapons were intended to completely deface 99R/M/E, Only close the gap so the "Equipment level" wasn't so inbalanced that all people wanted for their shout groups were R/M/E Owners. I just think they overdid it a little and didnt realize how upset a lot of their 99 owners would be.

I think these weapons should take dumps on 95 R/M/E, but 99 Weapons should remain on top by a small %, even if its just 1-3%.

I think this is their overall goal since they only mentioned 99 R/M/E would receive adjustments, and I'm okay with that, mostly cause I'm only in possession of 1 Relic, and I don't care to get anymore... So I llove the idea of my other ~21 Jobs being useful If i can get my hands on these new weapons.

Oh, I'm plenty cranky about a lot of things. My opinion on this topic just happens to differ with the majority's opinion. Does that make me crazy? That's another matter that's dependant on opinion, and since I'm provoking the majority, I wouldn't be shocked if I were labeled as such.

If one of the new weapons were a horn with +10 to songs, I would be less angry about "wasting my time getting a gjallarhorn", and more happy that I get to go achieve a gear upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Oh, I'm plenty cranky about a lot of things. My opinion on this topic just happens to differ with the majority's opinion. Does that make me crazy? That's another matter that's dependant on opinion, and since I'm provoking the majority, I wouldn't be shocked if I were labeled as such.

If one of the new weapons were a horn with +10 to songs, I would be less angry about "wasting my time getting a gjallarhorn", and more happy that I get to go achieve a gear upgrade.

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As you said, most people who went to the trouble of getting a relic would disagree with you. I've had my Ghorn for almost 5 years and there its presence in my inventory is both for stats and for sentimentality. I'd say 80% of the people who helped me get it have moved on. It would pain me greatly if it were replaced by something.

The stats are one thing. It is the best at what it does after all. But really, it's a combination of what it does and what it represents that makes it important to me. So for me, I would definitely not want to toss something like that to the side and go for the next big thing. Rather, I'd like to somehow have the best of both worlds and have the best and most meaningful weapon. Somehow. I'm sure my experience is fairly unique as you see some people crank out weapon after weapon.

Of course, if they did make a new super-ghorn on adderall, I'd sigh and formulate a plan to obtain it. But I don't think it's the best way to go about it.

Don't worry everyone, SE fix is in coming soon! and it will kick ass! :p

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/33...Level99SOA.jpg

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/44...Level99SOA.jpg

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/14...Level99SOA.jpg

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Believe.jpg

Wait... what? Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Wait... what? Did I miss something?

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I've made this for fun :p

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Let me turn the tables here...I am kinda curious, How would you guys take it if Relics were buffed to go with these new weapons? I.E

Mandau getting DMG:68

Ragnarok getting DMG:188

Would any of these changes make Skirmish Weapons less "Awesome" In your guys eyes even if Relics still outclassed them?

---

I wouldn't care, even if they were just updated to that damage without doing anything extra. While it means less people overall to possibly do Skirmish with, there's more than enough who play multiple jobs or at the very least would be interested in doing new content for the sake of it being new instead of doing old stuff to build another R/E/M.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I think what it boils down to is R/M/E Systems were fun, long term goals

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If they were "fun, long term goals," words like "work" and "sacrifice" wouldn't be thrown around so much in this thread. Don't pretend that getting one is anything but a soul-crushing grind, as befitted their intended role as status symbols.

I think it would have been fine for these to have been better than 95 r/e/m, to be better than 99 r/e/m if they are is a huge issue for me. SE nerfs twilight scythe in the name of balance, then releases weapons you can get from a short bcnm involving 6 people that are better than weapons people worked years on? I know r/e/m got easier, but farming umbral marrow low man, getting 1500 hmp and 60 dross etc, are nothing to sneeze at. Let's not even mention mythics/

Also, their idea for the drop is to come from a bcnm in which you get the entry items from helm and doing reives and soul pyres? Can you imagine if there was a legendary weapon that obsoleted r/e/m from Wings of the Goddess that was dropped by a bcnm you gained entry to by endlessly doing campaign? Is that even fun to helm and do reives over and over?

One thing I always liked about this game there was a little something for everyone. Like I said, I would be fine if this was an additional option for R/E/M and pulse weapons. Even if it came in at 95 level and there were like 3-6 months of quests, trials, bcnms to advance it to the state that are better than 99 r/e/m. But to release it better???

I am not a game marketer, maybe they feel this is a good idea. I see people coming back, I also see friends who have worked on these weapons logging in less and less already. I am not going to type in all caps and threaten anything, I am sure SE doesn't care. I will probably still play because I play as a relaxation in the evening from work, caring for elderly parents , etc. If it wasn't for my friends in game that we talk to everyone night etc I would probably call it now though.

Well , I would hope SE addresses this more, one way or another. I guess we have to wait for the JP to make enough of a fuss to get more information on what they are thinking.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

If they were "fun, long term goals," words like "work" and "sacrifice" wouldn't be thrown around so much in this thread. Don't pretend that getting one is anything but a soul-crushing grind, as befitted their intended role as status symbols.

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It was fun getting it when I had friends to do it with, Only became a chore when I had to Solo occasionally. Each person achieved their in their own way. Mine took a lot of work, but work can be fun if you're with the right people.

its not as black and white as you see it.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Also, their idea for the drop is to come from a bcnm in which you get the entry items from helm and doing reives and soul pyres? Can you imagine if there was a legendary weapon that obsoleted r/e/m from Wings of the Goddess that was dropped by a bcnm you gained entry to by endlessly doing campaign? Is that even fun to helm and do reives over and over?

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It's no worse than endlessly grinding salvage, dynamis, VW.

Attitude and point of view have a lot to do with what is and isn't "fun". Ever drag someone to a party who really didn't want to be there? The party is no fun for them even though the overwhelming majority of people there are having a good time.

The same thing happens here. If you convince yourself ahead of time that it's not fun, it really doesn't matter how entertaining it actually is because nothing is going to pull you out of that funk.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Each person achieved their in their own way.

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Coins for some, giant frozen heads for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I have everything for my mythic except alexandrite. I'm only 1/3 done with alexandrite. Still not sweating it.

And yeah, most of my empies are still only 90. Does that completely invalidate my opinion on the topic?

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Well , it doesn't invalidate your opinion, but it does hurt your argument.

Complaint: We feel shafted because we feel like the significant investment we made and work we put into making LV99 Relics, Mythics, and Empyreans was for naught.
Response: Well I don't feel like my 90 Empyreans, which are smaller investments by orders of magnitude, were a waste because I got a lot of use out of them.

It's all about the effort - reward ratio. Of course you don't feel shafted on your 90 Empyreans because they required less effort to complete.


People invested in 99 RMEs because they were "safe" investments, no one -with a few exceptions (mostly uninformed or fanatical people) - without capped Tav glitch or cruor gil would blow 200-300+ mil on a subpar weapon just for the sentiment. This is particularly notable in the Vanadiel Census - the harder a weapon class is to obtain, the less likely people are to make "noncompetitive" weapons in that class.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

It's no worse than endlessly grinding salvage, dynamis, VW.

Attitude and point of view have a lot to do with what is and isn't "fun". Ever drag someone to a party who really didn't want to be there? The party is no fun for them even though the overwhelming majority of people there are having a good time.

The same thing happens here. If you convince yourself ahead of time that it's not fun, it really doesn't matter how entertaining it actually is because nothing is going to pull you out of that funk.

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If you're going to make the argument that the majority of the player base finds endless HELM more entertaining and / or less unpleasant than Dynamis farming ... then I don't know why I've been giving you the assumption of any sort of credibility in the first place.

The only conclusion that I can possibly make from your posts is that the only point of view you're capable of understanding is your own.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

It's no worse than endlessly grinding salvage, dynamis, VW.

Attitude and point of view have a lot to do with what is and isn't "fun". Ever drag someone to a party who really didn't want to be there? The party is no fun for them even though the overwhelming majority of people there are having a good time.

The same thing happens here. If you convince yourself ahead of time that it's not fun, it really doesn't matter how entertaining it actually is because nothing is going to pull you out of that funk.

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I would disagree. If i didn't feel like doing dyna I did salvage to sell alex. Likewise I didn't care about heavy metal plates so I could do vw and sell those. Variety is the spice of life or game. Now if these weapons are as broke as people saying, you have one event. I don't think that is cool personally and will detract from game. Also, the drops to enter the bcnm seem to be lucked based at this point. Again, not cool. I prefer a goal I can work towards, not RNG. Why I liked salvage and dyna and even NNI. We plugged away at 80 wins and got all our gear. Took a bit but it was fun.

Lol, someone just said in linkshell they have 100k bayld. Everyone was like wow, that sounds really boring. It is not just me. We are on vent and everyone laughing at the ridiculousness of doing reives all the time. YMMV of course. Just my feelings and those around me.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

I would disagree. If i didn't feel like doing dyna I did salvage to sell alex. Likewise I didn't care about heavy metal plates so I could do vw and sell those. Variety is the spice of life or game. Now if these weapons are as broke as people saying, you have one event. I don't think that is cool personally and will detract from game. Also, the drops to enter the bcnm seem to be lucked based at this point. Again, not cool. I prefer a goal I can work towards, not RNG. Why I liked salvage and dyna and even NNI. We plugged away at 80 wins and got all our gear. Took a bit but it was fun.

Lol, someone just said in linkshell they have 100k bayld. Everyone was like wow, that sounds really boring. It is not just me. We are on vent and everyone laughing at the ridiculousness of doing reives all the time. YMMV of course. Just my feelings and those around me.

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No! You don't seem to understand how things work! Yinnyth isn't dissatisfied so everything is ship-shape and if you're displeased with it it's just because you have a bad attitude.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

I would disagree. If i didn't feel like doing dyna I did salvage to sell alex. Likewise I didn't care about heavy metal plates so I could do vw and sell those. Variety is the spice of life or game. Now if these weapons are as broke as people saying, you have one event. I don't think that is cool personally and will detract from game. Also, the drops to enter the bcnm seem to be lucked based at this point. Again, not cool. I prefer a goal I can work towards, not RNG. Why I liked salvage and dyna and even NNI. We plugged away at 80 wins and got all our gear. Took a bit but it was fun.

Lol, someone just said in linkshell they have 100k bayld. Everyone was like wow, that sounds really boring. It is not just me. We are on vent and everyone laughing at the ridiculousness of doing reives all the time. YMMV of course. Just my feelings and those around me.

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I suppose you're right about the variety. If these weapons are as strong as they seem to be, if they're as easy to obtain as people claim they are, if they never upgrade RMEs, the number of people doing other events would certainly decrease because they'd feel they're not worthwhile. We have very little information on how difficult these weapons are to obtain, however. And SE has mentioned they intend to do something with RMEs.

I think Dynamis, Abyssea, VW, and Salvage will all die out someday. Just not anytime too soon. Perhaps a few years from now. I have my doubts that these weapons spell the end for older events and gear.

SE has a strong motivation to keep people doing those events. It's really not in their interest to kill them off.

This is temporary

Square wish we play the new content, if they dont make interesing items, the people will not go to play the expansion.

They wish we break the routine and slow down Dynamis / VW / Salvaje for a while. For now Seekers 100%. In about 1 year im sure they will come with another upgrade for Our legendary weapons and the New seekers weps will be what now a lv 85 emp or a walk of echoes are

We need to be patient. this is just a strategy for move all people.

Another important point. 1/10 players Can make a R/E to lv 99 and 1/100 players can make a Mythic. The hardcore players are the Minority and the casual are most. Even if the hardcores are the most loyal and the players will stick until the servers Shuting down. The money is what move the direction of every MMRPG and the devs will follow the Money, even if they piss their hardcore players sadly. a MMRPG is ruled with Cold heart, Not with emotions.

Im absolutely sure, they planed all this. Have you Seen Pop Camate to this topic to calm to the people? No.. They knew this would happen, many people would be dissapointed.

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Originally Posted by Hercule

Don't worry everyone, SE fix is in coming soon! and it will kick ass! :p

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/33...Level99SOA.jpg

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/44...Level99SOA.jpg

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/14...Level99SOA.jpg

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Believe.jpg

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That's about exactly what they'd have to add to make this game worth it, sadly they have not.

Not sure why people are saying just wait a year or two, and they'll fix things. I mean do you know how ridiculous that sounds? How long do people think this game has left? Might as well add a cash shop now and make the new relic cost $144 as that's what you'd be paying anyhow.

In a years time I'm going to be so far into FFXIV ARR I'm not sure I'll ever think about this game again. I was hoping to spend my time in SoA before XIV's launch having fun, and even built a Relic over the past 5 months to prepare for SoA.

How disappointed I was... not just this Relic deal (which is huge) but that all the content just isn't fun, it's monotonous, and for all I can tell eventually somethings will happen? If people keep grinding, Although I noticed the colonization rate is still 0 in many places on my server and in Ceizak has already gone to a stand still, so I'm not sure enough players will stick it out for that that happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

This is temporary

Square wish we play the new content, if they dont make interesing items, the people will not go to play the expansion.

They wish we break the routine and slow down Dynamis / VW / Salvaje for a while. For now Seekers 100%. In about 1 year im sure they will come with another upgrade for Our legendary weapons and the New seekers weps will be what now a lv 85 emp or a walk of echoes are

We need to be patient. this is just a strategy for move all people.

Another important point. 1/10 players Can make a R/E to lv 99 and 1/100 players can make a Mythic. The hardcore players are the Minority and the casual are most. Even if the hardcores are the most loyal and the players will stick until the servers Shuting down. The money is what move the direction of every MMRPG and the devs will follow the Money, even if they piss their hardcore players sadly. a MMRPG is ruled with Cold heart, Not with emotions.

Im absolutely sure, they planed all this. Have you Seen Pop Camate to this topic to calm to the people? No.. They knew this would happen, many people would be dissapointed.

---

That was all well-said (even though it's obvious English isn't your first language, the thought was conveyed nicely), but I'm sure it's falling on deaf ears. The playerbase did this to themselves.

On forums people exaggerate and use overly dramatic language. For instance, let's say weapon A does 5% more damage than weapon B, honestly, it's not a big deal and barely noticeable. But lots of people act as if weapon B is totally worthless. I've literally heard weapon B called "lolwep", "worthless", "gimp", "waste of time", I could go on and on. Then someone who has a weak background in math comes along and reads the posts, and actually takes the rhetoric literally. Hence R/E/M only shouts for Meeble Burrows for example.

It's basically just got the point where you genuinely have to be the best to do any event, all because of people's attitudes. However though, I don't feel gimping R/M/E is the way to go about fixing that, and yes I say gimping, because most of these new weapons s**t all over them in terms of dmg output, especially the H2H. Items that need so much effort and time to obtain should always be the best until such a time as they're easier to get. Simple SE, if you want to outclass relics, hand them out to people left right and centre by making 5x more currency drop in dyna, 5x more plates etc and remove every quest leaving only half the alex needed to create a mythic. Only when it's that easy to get R/M/E will people be satisfied that you've outclassed them because at this point they are still very hard to get in comparison. Sort it out SE... unless of course your ultimate aim is to kill FFXI off.

I feel the need to mention that even if you didn't care about them outdating old weapons, I for one sure as hell am not interested in them pushing forward their only relevant content as "whack roots for 15 hours until you either roll the lottery for a dungeon entry piece or have enough points for 1 attempt at an NM".

In b4 someone says "b-but you can still do that old content if you really wanted to", implying that I could get people to do Garrison or Eco Warrior without shouting for hours days or 6-boxing it by myself.

Almost 250 comments and not a single answers from the devs? I thought they opened this forum to ease the communication. I guess gaijin don't deserve to have informations.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

I feel the need to mention that even if you didn't care about them outdating old weapons, I for one sure as hell am not interested in them pushing forward their only relevant content as "whack roots for 15 hours until you either roll the lottery for a dungeon entry piece or have enough points for 1 attempt at an NM".

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Yes it's pretty much whack da roots for 15 hours or so. Granted they didn't design reive to spammed 15 hours nonstop. It's suppose to be casual log and whack (unless you wiped - which often happen all the time). They seriously need to revise SoA content to be more fun. But the other problem is that most people don't seem to know how to work in a team together. Meeble is one of the "teamwork" oriented content and pretty much abandoned by players. So I do worry that even if they open all the SoA contents, people will leave in droves because they have no clue on how to maximize their jobs role in the group. It's not just "yay gonna whack it" and go zerg whatever coming your way. Utilizing your jobs ability and coming with basic strategy is important.

Abyssea is great at getting you to 99 so fast - but the major problem is a lot of people are too lazy to test their jobs and figure out a way to maximize its potential and understand crowd control and what a teamwork means. You are suppose to take advantage of the atma and cruor buff to go out there and test your macro etc dealing with Abyssea NM as your test drive. Now we are paying for the consequences of AFK leeching to 99 without even spending time to learn the job on your own - and how to play properly.

I don't know what you're talking about. Plenty of people did Meebles, its just a lot of the people that cared already got everything they wanted from it or they don't care to try because the drop rates are too awful (Abatteur/Gusterion/etc), which is compounded by the fact that they're dropped items and you need 5-26 tickets in order to do a single boss fight, unless you pay your way up.