Nerfing Ukko/Vsmite so lazy players can be more useful?

Outside of MS not getting crit attack III is something like a ~1-3% loss in overall damage, hence I said it was fairly minimal.

@ Amador sorry, something got goof up in that post. My bad. I corrected it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Funniest part about this is that you're still under us, even after the nerf :)

No need to be salty bro

---

Ok so you shouldn't be crying about the nerf then

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Outside of MS not getting crit attack III is something like a ~1-3% loss in overall damage, hence I said it was fairly minimal.

---

its still a loss neverthless because of some people that think ukyo's fury wouldnt be strong enough with the nerf they intended to do 1.

You're just complaining to complain now if you think not getting crit Attack III is going to suddenly cause War to not be one of the top if not still top DD with or without it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cljader1

Ok so you shouldn't be crying about the nerf then

---

Envy, gotta love it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You're just complaining to complain now if you think not getting crit Attack III is going to suddenly cause War to not be one of the top if not still top DD with or without it.

---

no thats not the case, you dont see the point. Why should my 4 year old Bravura suffer a futur potential loss (aka not getting the trait they intended to implement) because of some pricks that are unhappy with ukyo's fury nerf? The fact that I did stick with my Bravura should tell you allready that I am very confident on my WAR even without ukyo's fury.

Then you're complaining about nothing because you don't get 1-3% at worst overall damage increase. If you consider that a 'nerf' I really don't know what to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Then you're complaining about nothing because you don't get 1-3% at worst overall damage increase. If you consider that a 'nerf' I really don't know what to say.

---

seriously its a slap in the face to every warrior that did stick with her/his Bravura and every non ukoys fury war. It shouldnt be tolerated and is just biased.

Doing 1% less damage from not getting a trait SE pulled anyway is a 'slap in the face'? Do you listen to yourself?

SE has shown that they prefer nerfs over actually fixing other jobs, although I dont agree with this, its how they are handling things. Even though UF and VS needed to be nerfed that deosn't solve all the balance issues in the game. SE cant just nerf and take the side exit off stage you still have to sit at your work stations and devise a solution to fix the jobs that need fixing. With all that being said, war and mnk should be happy that there UF & VS and still a viable critical ws, all SE did was take a little off the top.

It's good to know that SE will only take Empyrean weapons into consideration now for future JT additions or lack there of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damane

no thats not the case, you dont see the point. Why should my 4 year old Bravura suffer a futur potential loss (aka not getting the trait they intended to implement) because of some pricks that are unhappy with ukyo's fury nerf? The fact that I did stick with my Bravura should tell you allready that I am very confident on my WAR even without ukyo's fury.

---

the correct answer is to make a ukon. But instead of that you'll just bitch and be emo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

And those people don't see why that's an enormous undertaking as well as how it would be the incorrect decision on SE's part.

---

Do you own stock in SE? Why do you want them to program things in the cheapest fastest way, instead of the right way? Are they offering some sort of discount for players that support bad programming?

Except it isn't bad programming if you have half a brain. Ukko's Fury needed to be adjusted, the job itself could have remained at its projected ability however. Raging Rush/Upheaval aren't the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

Except it isn't bad programming if you have half a brain. Ukko's Fury needed to be adjusted, the job itself could have remained at its projected ability however. Raging Rush/Upheaval aren't the issue.

---

It is actually bad programming. They could have just removed the stupid 300tp items, and Worked on boosting the strength and abilities of other jobs.

If you can look at Ukko's Fury and say that a 30% crit rate at 100TP when all other crit weaponskills are 15% at maximum isn't stupid then I don't know what to tell you. There's no reason to have a 30% crit rate at 100TP on any weaponskill. 15% is a fine amount.

Not only 100TP either really, its crit rate grew so rapidly that small TP amounts were worth a lot more than on most weaponskills, regardless what TP modified. 80% at 300TP was only part of the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

If you can look at Ukko's Fury and say that a 30% crit rate at 100TP when all other crit weaponskills are 15% at maximum isn't stupid then I don't know what to tell you.

---

That other jobs need other stuff, and that this is the least of the problems in the game atm? that nerfing a ws isn't going to make anything better for anyone?

It could be that you simply don't know what reducing Ukko's Fury's crit rate to 15/20% has, or it could be that you don't know how to function when losing that moderately low amount of damage off of your weaponskill that makes it far easier to balance other jobs which in turn keeping the game from being easier than it already is. Either way, I suggest doing some research. It isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think.

While I have little evidence to work off of saying that they'll be buffing other jobs subtly over time, the DRG adjustments are a sound enough indication that it could happen. Slightly increasing the strength of other jobs to come closer to the new WAR will have us where we were or slightly better off than we were when WAR had/has the stupid high crit rate on Ukko's. You don't appear to realize that there are other jobs in FFXI aside from WAR, a couple of which are usually included in a VW alliance. When those jobs increase slightly in power to make up for the slight loss in Ukko's Fury damage, no negative difference will be seen and it's quite likely that positive ramifications will be seen instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

It could be that you simply don't know what reducing Ukko's Fury's crit rate to 15/20% has, or it could be that you don't know how to function when losing that moderately low amount of damage off of your weaponskill that makes it far easier to balance other jobs which in turn keeping the game from being easier than it already is. Either way, I suggest doing some research. It isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think.

---

I'm well aware of what it does. It hasn't made content any easier or harder to beat. It hasn't added any new capabilities or damage to other jobs. in effect: it pissed off a bunch of wars and monks. That's all it did. what part of the game is it exactly that you think is becoming more difficult with this?

Monks have a reason to be pissed, Warriors however do not. They have a reason to be slightly agitated because they're losing an average of 300 damage off of their weaponskills, but the bloody murder I've been seeing thrown around constantly since the idea of the nerf first came up is not an adequate response.

What this did was leveled the playing field just enough to make it so they can elevate other DD jobs (yes, those exist) to come closer to WAR without disrupting game balance by having every single DD in the alliance capable of putting out averages of 3~3.5k spikes of 4~6k.

3 minute VW fights are adequate. You don't need them to be 1.5 minutes, I promise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

Monks have a reason to be pissed, Warriors however do not. They have a reason to be slightly agitated because they're losing an average of 300 damage off of their weaponskills, but the bloody murder I've been seeing thrown around constantly since the idea of the nerf first came up is not an adequate response.

---

The bloody murder in my case is about the fact that A) it doesn't help anyone, B) Its messed up to people on those jobs and C) it means that they don't plan to create content that is strong enough for other jobs to get the boosts they need.

It essentially means that any future job adjustments will either be insignificant, or they will be more nerfs to other jobs.

So basically they nerfed war, and monk, but they are still the best. Therefore if I intend to win in 1.5 minutes still, I'll need to cut some of those other jobs, and bring more wars and monks.

A) It does, you're just either too closed minded to realize it or are choosing not to.
B) Oh no, you mean the guys that swing once to unleash a 3k average WS (abouts) will only do 2.7k on average now? Boo hoo. MNK and non-emp WARs got wronged, not Ukko WAR.
C) They already have.

Future job adjustments will be what they will be, however I doubt they'll be insignificant enough not to matter or nerfs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

A) It does, you're just either too closed minded to realize it or are choosing not to.
B) Oh no, you mean the guys that swing once to unleash a 3k average WS (abouts) will only do 2.7k on average now? Boo hoo. MNK and non-emp WARs got wronged, not Ukko WAR.
C) They already have.

Future job adjustments will be what they will be, however I doubt they'll be insignificant enough not to matter or nerfs.

---

A) please explain who is benefiting from this.
B) It's always fine for bad things to happen to the other guy huh?
C) orly? WHat?

A) Anyone who isn't Ukko WAR or Verethragna MNK/PUP, the latter of which shouldn't have had anything done to them. Non-Ukko WARs also got fleeced. I shouldn't have to repeat myself four times, but if you insist on playing the fool...
B) You're absolutely ignorant. I have no idea how anyone can defend that weaponskill being as over the top as it is with a straight face.
C) You must not have fought T6 Jeuno NMs yet, where WAR's lead over other melees is quite apparent. While it can be done with other melee jobs, it's not quite as effective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

A) Anyone who isn't Ukko WAR or Verethragna MNK/PUP, the latter of which shouldn't have had anything done to them. Non-Ukko WARs also got fleeced. I shouldn't have to repeat myself four times, but if you insist on playing the fool...
B) You're absolutely ignorant. I have no idea how anyone can defend that weaponskill being as over the top as it is with a straight face.
C) You must not have fought T6 Jeuno NMs yet, where WAR's lead over other melees is quite apparent. While it can be done with other melee jobs, it's not quite as effective.

---

A) So do you actually think that pups are getting more invites now? Did every ls suddenly replace wars with more thiefs and bsts? you really shouldn't repeat your self at all if your just going to make uninformed generalizations.

B) Your absolutely ignorant. Your angry at a number. You looked at a crit rate, it didn't fit into your preconceived notion of what a ws should have, and you freaked out.

C) So make other melee stronger? Give them some other uses while they're at it? Or are you just saying t6 is too easy?

A) If anyone is uninformed, it's you. I would advise you to carefully reread my stance on this matter and why other jobs will benefit from this in the long run. Killspeed on NMs will barely change if at all, but with this route we won't be seeing instant wins which, I don't know about you, don't sound very fun to me, and jobs will be on a reasonably even keel. Who likes sitting there watching WAR McZerg obliterate them no matter what they do to their equipment, subjob selection, weaponskill selection, etc.?

B) No, you clearly have no idea what game balance is. People like to bash SE for using the term "balance" so often, but in some cases it's quite accurate. At this point, anything short of where they seem to be heading now would require an absolute massive amount of restructuring on several game mechanics. If you can't handle most empyrean weaponskills having 15% crit rate, then you're honestly very vain. With appropriate gear and Champion's Drink, Blue Mage (as an example, Ninja works as well) has a 76% critical hit rate at 100TP with a 15% base crit rate. Is 76% not big enough for you? The way your kind argues, they should just make weaponskills autocrit and have them all just have scaling fTPs.

C) You're not reading very carefully. It's okay, it's a common problem in today's world. Go back and try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

A) If anyone is uninformed, it's you. I would advise you to carefully reread my stance on this matter and why other jobs will benefit from this in the long run. Killspeed on NMs will barely change if at all, but with this route we won't be seeing instant wins which, I don't know about you, don't sound very fun to me, and jobs will be on a reasonably even keel. Who likes sitting there watching WAR McZerg obliterate them no matter what they do to their equipment, subjob selection, weaponskill selection, etc.?

---

So yes then? BSTs, PUPS, DNC, Will now be popular because of this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

B) No, you clearly have no idea what game balance is. People like to bash SE for using the term "balance" so often, but in some cases it's quite accurate. At this point, anything short of where they seem to be heading now would require an absolute massive amount of restructuring on several game mechanics. If you can't handle most empyrean weaponskills having 15% crit rate, then you're honestly very vain. With appropriate gear and Champion's Drink, Blue Mage (as an example, Ninja works as well) has a 76% critical hit rate at 100TP with a 15% base crit rate. Is 76% not big enough for you? The way your kind argues, they should just make weaponskills autocrit and have them all just have scaling fTPs.

---

So nerf blu and nin yeah? I don't give a crap what modifiers are on a weapon skill. The fact is that they programmed a ws that way, waited until thousands of people went out and got it, and then nerfed it for no reason. It didn't fix enfeebling magic, or the lack of a role for most other hybrid jobs, and it certainly didn't make other DD jobs more desireable, therefore it was a waste of time..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

) You're not reading very carefully. It's okay, it's a common problem in today's world. Go back and try again.

---

I can read. It appears that you can't answer the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So yes then? BSTs, PUPS, DNC, Will now be popular because of this?

---

Not yet, but if you'd understood what I've been saying the whole time you'd know that.

Quote:

---

So nerf blu and nin yeah? I don't give a crap what modifiers are on a weapon skill. The fact is that they programmed a ws that way, waited until thousands of people went out and got it, and then nerfed it for no reason. It didn't fix enfeebling magic, or the lack of a role for most other hybrid jobs, and it certainly didn't make other DD jobs more desireable, therefore it was a waste of time..

---

No, because 15% is an adequate number. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the proposed nerf to Ukko's Fury was below 15%, and I am rather perplexed as to why Victory Smite has been reduced to 10% as it was unnecessary. Your problem is exactly thus, you don't care, but you should. Thousands of people got their weapon, and it's the best weapon in the game. That will not change when you lose a maximum of ten percent damage on your weaponskill. Most of you, for lack of a better term, meatheads seem to have a problem understanding this. How about the guy who made a Redemption or Rhongomiant? How do you justify their waste of time when they were useless to begin with? Ukonvasara is losing relatively nothing, and it opens up a platform for other jobs to gain without making every single fight in the game an absolute bore. Get over it.

Quote:

---

I can read. It appears that you can't answer the question.

---

Apparently you can not, or cannot comprehend the simple concept I've put forth thus far, because I've already answered the question. I'm the first to admit that I've misread posts before and interpreted them incorrectly, but come now, this isn't hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Do you own stock in SE? Why do you want them to program things in the cheapest fastest way, instead of the right way? Are they offering some sort of discount for players that support bad programming?

---

OMFG! FFXI has become vista! >.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dart

the correct answer is to make a ukon. But instead of that you'll just bitch and be emo.

---

Sorry, but its really not fair. Why should every other war get shafted because of 1 WS, that IF NERFED is still very good. I love my bravura, there is a reason I spend back then (4 yearsago) 1 year to complete it. Did you hear me bitch back then how easy empys are to do and that they overshadow Relics?

But this is just enough, withholding planned job traits, because of one WS is just silly. In this case i rather would have Ukonvarsa Wars being hit by the full nerf.

Would you as an Ukonvarsa War be happy to not get a Job trait, just because Bravura is too strong? I really doubt so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damane

Sorry, but its really not fair. Why should every other war get shafted because of 1 WS, that IF NERFED is still very good. I love my bravura, there is a reason I spend back then (4 yearsago) 1 year to complete it. Did you hear me bitch back then how easy empys are to do and that they overshadow Relics?

But this is just enough, withholding planned job traits, because of one WS is just silly. In this case i rather would have Ukonvarsa Wars being hit by the full nerf.

Would you as an Ukonvarsa War be happy to not get a Job trait, just because Bravura is too strong? I really doubt so.

---

Of course they wouldn't i mean just look how much they cried at the inital nerf, it's enough to make you sick. As long as there precious ukon is not getting nerfed screw the relic i mean look how they reacted when empyreans first came out most of the community basically laughed at all the relic holders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damane

Sorry, but its really not fair. Why should every other war get shafted because of 1 WS, that IF NERFED is still very good. I love my bravura, there is a reason I spend back then (4 yearsago) 1 year to complete it. Did you hear me bitch back then how easy empys are to do and that they overshadow Relics?

But this is just enough, withholding planned job traits, because of one WS is just silly. In this case i rather would have Ukonvarsa Wars being hit by the full nerf.

Would you as an Ukonvarsa War be happy to not get a Job trait, just because Bravura is too strong? I really doubt so.

---

I have 2 relics, both pretty much useless now. I'm not bitching i'm moving on, silently hoping that they become relevant again, but jesus people move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damane

Sorry, but its really not fair. Why should every other war get shafted because of 1 WS, that IF NERFED is still very good. I love my bravura, there is a reason I spend back then (4 yearsago) 1 year to complete it. Did you hear me bitch back then how easy empys are to do and that they overshadow Relics?

But this is just enough, withholding planned job traits, because of one WS is just silly. In this case i rather would have Ukonvarsa Wars being hit by the full nerf.

Would you as an Ukonvarsa War be happy to not get a Job trait, just because Bravura is too strong? I really doubt so.

---

You're seriously qqing over doing 1% less damage on the best damage dealer on the game. You're just making yourself look bad right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

Not yet, but if you'd understood what I've been saying the whole time you'd know that.

---

So the point was just to make them feel better?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

No, because 15% is an adequate number. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that the proposed nerf to Ukko's Fury was below 15%, and I am rather perplexed as to why Victory Smite has been reduced to 10% as it was unnecessary. Your problem is exactly thus, you don't care, but you should. Thousands of people got their weapon, and it's the best weapon in the game. That will not change when you lose a maximum of ten percent damage on your weaponskill. Most of you, for lack of a better term, meatheads seem to have a problem understanding this. How about the guy who made a Redemption or Rhongomiant? How do you justify their waste of time when they were useless to begin with? Ukonvasara is losing relatively nothing, and it opens up a platform for other jobs to gain without making every single fight in the game an absolute bore. Get over it.

---

So mess up one persons hard work in order to validate another persons work? great. BRB going out to egg my neigbors house in order to increase the value of mine. Its perfectly fine though because their house will still be worth a lot afterwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Prothscar

Apparently you can not, or cannot comprehend the simple concept I've put forth thus far, because I've already answered the question. I'm the first to admit that I've misread posts before and interpreted them incorrectly, but come now, this isn't hard.

---

5th post now, woulda been easier to just answer the question. You clearly can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damane

Sorry, but its really not fair. Why should every other war get shafted because of 1 WS, that IF NERFED is still very good. I love my bravura, there is a reason I spend back then (4 yearsago) 1 year to complete it. Did you hear me bitch back then how easy empys are to do and that they overshadow Relics?

But this is just enough, withholding planned job traits, because of one WS is just silly. In this case i rather would have Ukonvarsa Wars being hit by the full nerf.

Would you as an Ukonvarsa War be happy to not get a Job trait, just because Bravura is too strong? I really doubt so.

---

Welcome to Dark Knight's world and what the kraken club did to our JAs and 2hr. SE have steadily nerfed drk's because of the kraken club zerg on AV. Dark knights have received haste cap nerf, souleater nerf, absorb-tp nerf, dark magic skill formula nerf. War is going the same way, SE fear Ukon War's like the use too the kraken club drk, and what they like to do in this cases is nerf a job severely...however war so far has only recieved a slight nerf compared to drks and other jobs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by newmonkey

Of course they wouldn't i mean just look how much they cried at the inital nerf, it's enough to make you sick. As long as there precious ukon is not getting nerfed screw the relic i mean look how they reacted when empyreans first came out most of the community basically laughed at all the relic holders.

---

this so much.

i had to sig it honestly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So the point was just to make them feel better?

---

Point is to give everyone a more equal playing field.

Quote:

---

So mess up one persons hard work in order to validate another persons work? great. BRB going out to egg my neigbors house in order to increase the value of mine. Its perfectly fine though because their house will still be worth a lot afterwards.

---

Seriously? You don't understand by now that it isn't coming close to messing up the weapon? Are you trolling? You must be, no one is this bad at reading comprehension, not even me. The nerf to Ukko's Fury isn't coming close to ruining Ukonvasara, and it surely isn't devaluing the 4-5 days it takes to build one.

Quote:

---

5th post now, woulda been easier to just answer the question. You clearly can't.

---

6th post now, I'm growing tired of your beating around the bush. Either acknowledge that I've already answered your question and that you can't read, or stop wasting my god damn time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anewie

this so much.

i had to sig it honestly.

---

Reading comprehension is nice. I've always been on the side that b'awwing about the nerfs was retarded because it didn't actually change the job hierarchy. You just assumed a lot of things because I have a Vereth.

Though, the people talking about how wonderful this is for other jobs are equally retarded as they don't seem to realize that WAR still handily outclasses whatever throw-away DD they're trying to champion. The only difference is WAR now outclasses PUP by a mile instead of a mile and a half. For any group that cares about absolute efficiency, nothing has changed in the slightest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Though, the people talking about how wonderful this is for other jobs are equally retarded as they don't seem to realize that WAR still handily outclasses whatever throw-away DD they're trying to champion. The only difference is WAR now outclasses PUP by a mile instead of a mile and a half. For any group that cares about absolute efficiency, nothing has changed in the slightest.

---

That's not the point I'm trying to get across however. My belief is in that this is part one of a multistep process of job adjustments and balance, kind of like they said they were going to do when the cap reached its maximum, which it now has.