Level 99 - Trial of the Citadel

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Originally Posted by Daniel

100 is a cooler number than 99, QED

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No, it's not.

Any number which has a rounded-down 50% number sucks to be a final level.

99 sucks to be a final level, the end.

I still most definitely prefer 100 still, because it's a cooler number than 99. FFXI level caps have always been divisible by 5, and I'd prefer it to stay that way.

100 <Yes, please.>

I can't believe Camate really asked if people wanted 99 or 100. Of course people are going to want 100, it's a bigger number than 99. There is no logic in choosing 100 over 99 other than "it's better than 99." We can try to take logic and argue that 99 is a more suitable level for the cap, but is it really going to convince SE to stick with 99 when you've got a plethora of "100 <Yes, please.>" comments that mention nothing in support of their decision for why they came to it!? No! It's just mindless posting desiring something more than we should get...

I want level cap 99, I don't want to see level 100 in this game, it's not worth it and really, what's 1 more level? SE just stick with the PS2 limitations on this one, PLEASE...

Cap was 50 for two years and then 75 for five? I can still remember conversations over the years about how they would never raise the cap beyond 75. There were even people who were offended by the idea, saying it would destroy the balance of the game and the challenges in current and future content.

Would it really be that far off for the level cap to be 200 in five years? I'm sure some people would doubt it still being active at that point. I'm also sure there would be some extremely broken 200/100 combination but i'm not up for the math on that at the moment. We've been playing for nearly half a decade assuming there would be no way to balance even level 80 (NIN/RDM > Vana'diel) and they have balanced game play enough so that it works.

People don't kite solo or use NIN/DRK- RDM/NIN combinations to tank anymore, and those were fairly big parts of endgame play at 75 cap. With the recent adjustments that have removed highly used strategies there is no reason to assume that the cap couldn't eventually be 100/100 200/100 or some other seemingly ridiculous number. It's all in how long this game stays active.

It's like Camate said, one 100 would become two 100s which would become five 100s and so on.

Ah, yes. I vote for 100. Whats the best horrible monster you can think of at 100/50?

Clarity would be nice regarding this. Unless the Dev team has something planned for 99+ and endgame players as far as leveling/meriting goes and how that will be reflected as an accomplishment.

However, right now we're being given an apology, with no reason or any backing to why it's an apology.

It really does sound like, "Hey uh, sorry. It was already decided before we even brought the question to you. I just can't find the right words to say I screwed up in even making the post/comment to begin with.

Clarity would be very welcome, and necessary at this point. It very bluntly, sucks that it's just Case Closed and the only response is: Sorry for miscommunication, JP players talk about Level 100, and ... I just can't even finish that sentence Camante, it's very confusing what you were even trying to state.

The ONLY good thing about level 99 is no more Level 5 Petrify.

I too wish to see these so called polls >.> Without any data to back it up it seems kind of pointless...

They chose 99, but 99 is the best. Every old school grind game that went mainstream had a cap of 99. 99 was that number. There was no 100. You couldn't exceed 99. I dont know, I always thought it was trippy and they should keep to standards. They probably can only do 99 and thought everyone would think like me so it was pre-determined no matter what anyone said and the Japanese forums are probably saying the same things perhaps, who knows. Maybe they even voted on 100 but their saying that the english forums wanted 99. Isn't that a trip?

Feedback is feedback. It doesn't matter if they post the reasoning behind their choice, it's still feedback.

One reason I voted for 100 is because of my ocd; I like even numbers. Sue me. Will I quit because we're not getting 100? No.

But what I really would have liked to see is the ability to take only one job to 100 to be classified as your main job.

I also liked that one suggestion that at level 100 your level is replaced by two stars.

I could deal with one job to 100, but I would definitely want the ability to change my "mastered" job...

Nothing is wrong with accepting feedback, when it's actually feed back. Accepting a paragraph that makes little to no sense regarding whatever that last post was is something else.

The reasoning behind it isn't what affected a good majority of the people questioning it. It's the fact that it's bias to a JP forum, 90% of us can't read. The information is with held from us, and out of a 13 page thread at that point strongly in the lead for 100, was simply shrugged off and we got a response which stated: JP Forum spoke of level 100, and something. Not about what they would or wouldn't get access to. The end. Decision: 99.

Stop asking for one job to 100 while others remain at 99 also. They already stated at the original Camante post that wouldn't happen. It was about 99 or 100. However, it was really: 99 or, 99. Just let us know how you feel about it. Which we wasted our time doing so, flawlessly. At this point, I think this thread simply deserves clarification, or to be closed.

99.... 100 sucks

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

I would prefer 99 regardless.

The only exception would be, maybe for something done in the future, reserving level 100 for only one job (resetting this job to another one would also reset your accumulated experience points between 99 and 100- making you attain that full level when you switch). From this perspective, maybe each job could have a 'super' ability at level 100.

So because people were considering subjobs the devs decided against it? That's just silly. Support jobs are a core aspect of the game after all. I realize many of us may not have the kind of intimate understanding of certain game mechanics that the ffxi math wizards do when they figure out game formulas and the optimum setups, etc, etc, but seriously, who could possibly care more about the "roundness" of lvl 100 than what it would mean for main/sub combinations? It is kind of like a dealership refusing to sell you a car because your decision was basead on price, mpg, safety features, and such instead of whether or not the car was a pretty color.

Then again, I suppose a sub job of 50 really wouldn't have meant much seeing how SE nerfs and locks those JAs anyway.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

I would prefer 99 regardless.

The only exception would be, maybe for something done in the future, reserving level 100 for only one job (resetting this job to another one would also reset your accumulated experience points between 99 and 100- making you attain that full level when you switch). From this perspective, maybe each job could have a 'super' ability at level 100.

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Could still do this at 99 with merits, where choosing to merit the super-ability of 1 job, locks the other 19, similar to raising a craft past 60.

Alternatively, give us a limi on the merits we can use for the 3rd tier, say 50 points to be used across all jobs, so you can either fully merit 1 job, or partially merit several.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

Could still do this at 99 with merits, where choosing to merit the super-ability of 1 job, locks the other 19, similar to raising a craft past 60.

Alternatively, give us a limi on the merits we can use for the 3rd tier, say 50 points to be used across all jobs, so you can either fully merit 1 job, or partially merit several.

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Then you will hear things like this:
"You put tier 3 merits into Thief? What a noob! Warrior is way better. All merits in Warrior or GTFO."

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Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

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It really is difficult not to consider the possible "bonuses" of having a 100/50 combination besides the extra level and stat bonuses, a lot of jobs get stuff at level 50 so it was part of most of our mindsets I'm sure. Personally, had I realized what was being asked in the first place, I still would've picked 100, even if everything I'd get from a /49 to /50 was just extra stats and no other bonuses due to game balance. It'd fit the 5 level increase theme we've had forever when we've had level cap increases.

I don't know, maybe I'm one of those people who has never wanted to view "99" as a final level in any game - I wasn't really a fan of it across the entire series, except FF8 and the PSP dissidia games (fighting level 150 enemies was fun stuff!).

Although in FF8, the level didn't mean as much as it does in other games as the majority of enemies "reflect" the party's level.

100 always made more sense to me. In that sense, I'd think something should be done to show "mastery" of the job - perhaps via questing, special fight(s), etc - past level 99 (and the accomplishment could result in, I don't know, a star showing by the job? Just random ideas in my head), while retaining that level as the final one. I'd be content with that to be honest.

Basically IMO we should get something unique from obtaining the maximum level that doesn't require getting lucky on a rare/ex drop, getting exp/merits (aka: easy mode), or having more gil than one knows what to do with (getting items at ludicrous prices). We already know to expect something such as Group 3 merits once we're at our final level.

Sub's can make and break a main job at times, so i'm sure even if you would have mention this from the start, the conversation still would have gone this way. The stat's between 99 to 100 could have never been enough to really sway enough player's to go "1 extra point to my job's main stat plus tiny boost to my hp/mp and a big shinny 100 next to my job title, sure i'd love that." "shaking my head" nah i'd rather have that extra stratagem from /sch with a 50 sub job.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

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Can I see this poll and can I make an appeal? Lol!
I decline! =/
A vote from the community vs development team ideas,hmm.
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What would the DEV team do if there WAS a lv.100? That is the question. 0.0
Maybe the DEV just ran out of FFxi-Fuel. Yeah, that's it!



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I look forward to leveling my Pld, Sam and Mnk to lv.100! Five more levels to work for instead of just four. One thing though, everyone expects to be at their new level by day 7 after a update and new limitbreak! I would suggest...(just a suggestion), that the exp curve be adjusted differently than before.

It's expected that we'll only need to earn 10K extra exp for the next level than the last, make it a full 100k for each level from 96-99/100. I think that would control the population of those trying to make it to the finish line... or is there a finish line, gwahahahahaaaa~!


100K, on your mark, get set.... GO! >:D

Level 99 cap? YES!


NO MORE LEVEL 5 PETRIFY! Quick! Someone help me prepare it's grave!

I must be doing the wrong content. In the 7~ years that I have been playing, I have been hit with that move probably 10 times.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I must be doing the wrong content. In the 7~ years that I have been playing, I have been hit with that move probably 10 times.

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I've only been hit with it by Agas (Sleepga II NM) and Dyna-Xarc eyes(?). Can't remember ever being it with it by anything else. Gotta love knowing that the only things that did it are obsolete, might as well get rid of it.

Good bye Level 5 Petrify. Hello Level 9 Petrify! :)
/em gives hints to the Dev Team.

I wouldn't want lv100 if the only thing it meant was an extra stat point or two and HP/MP. I'd only want it if it meant something new or special at that level.

(Meaning, I want new and special stuff because I want lv100 :p )

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Then you will hear things like this:
"You put tier 3 merits into Thief? What a noob! Warrior is way better. All merits in Warrior or GTFO."

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You're right, this would certainly separate the n00bs from the better players. The n00bs will make statements like you posted above; then ask me to come BLM, RDM, WHM, THF, BRD or SMN anyway!
The better players will realise that an alliance of 18 WAR perhaps isn't going to be the best plan.

For ideas related to how to make the player unique among the mass of players who play the same job category I'd have to suggest you make a new thread.

Camante has shown the importance of on topic/direct to a key threads that devs are looking for. So, just a suggestion.

They also again, in relation to your request for capped unique merits. They want to stray away from things that will lead the player base to ask for "more" in regards to the same issue. It seems they want to touch base, and go home. Not Touch base, steal 3rd and run back to first.

I mean, they wanted us to talk stats...

They wanted us to literally say Okay...

We get: +35 Attack, +31.5 Accuracy, +1-2 Stat depending on roll it would land on per job. C.Lvl Vs. M.Lvl Formula increase.

They didn't want us to babble about random factors that may or may not be present. It got out of hand, redundantly so. To the point where people were straight crying wolf. When there was nothing there at all that would even remotely point in that direction.

There's still a very large majority who want 100 based on a number of facts.

1: It was never tradition.
2: It improves us overall.
3: It allows us to have higher stats against tought opponents.
4: If you're not a DRG you probably aren't capping accuracy against current Voidwatch End Game Content.
5: 99 Was a system limitation, a forced limitation as it was and is in numerous titles. It's like the unreal engine, it sucks beyond belief, guess that's why it's called UNREAL. However, it's what was out, what was working, what was hot for the developers, so they used it.

As for everything else... all I can truly say is that it isn't fair at all.

Information was incomplete and handed to us. The information was taken by us and submitted erroneously, when the real action should have been a post by Camante saying:

CRAP, Wait. Start over. I left out some IMPORTANT STUFF, that will determine the fate of this choice!

That didn't happen. What would of happened if Camante had not submitted what the devs didn't want to see? A discussion would of taken place regarding Attribute Points, Combat Skill Gains, Offensive Skill Gains, Magic Skill Gains, dDex formulas for Crit Rate, Attack formulas against enemies, damage taken formulas as well as a number of other topics revolving around the simple increase of 1 level.

I want a do-over damn it. :|

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Originally Posted by Amador

I want a do-over

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BST poll got a do-over < <

....please sir, can I has another?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Sorry for any confusion my previous post created…

Basically, when I asked for your feedback, I left out a piece of information that was written in the Japanese post.

The part that I left out was that your choice between 99 or 100 should be based solely on the numerical aspect (i.e.: higher stats, a nice round number, etc.) and not on the possibilities of new abilities/spells, or support job abilities.

Since many of the responses that were pro 100 were looking forward to new abilities, new spells, the new combinations that can be used when having a level 50 support job, etc., the development team saw this and realized that this is what is more important to players than the higher stats and what not, deciding it would be best to stick with 99.

The players on the Japanese thread were providing their feedback with this in mind, which is possibly why there were more votes for 99 than 100 there.

Again, I apologize if this seemed like I was dangling a carrot and yanking it away, as that wasn’t my intention. It was just an oversight on my part, leaving out that bit of information and I’m sorry for the confusion.

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Well, now that I read this, I'd prefer lvl 99. The reason for this is cos its the Final Fantasy "tradition" to have lvl 99.
And I dont really think anyone care if you make a type-o, Camate. You respond to so many threads that you are bound to make a mistake every once in a while.

I say, thank you for your continuing effort to make this forum a better place ^_-

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

You're right, this would certainly separate the n00bs from the better players. The n00bs will make statements like you posted above; then ask me to come BLM, RDM, WHM, THF, BRD or SMN anyway!
The better players will realise that an alliance of 18 WAR perhaps isn't going to be the best plan.

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Which is why your idea is lame. People will always need show up at events on the appropriate job. Being unable to merit one useful job because the merits did more for another slightly more useful job is lame. When I need a Red Mage for an event, I don't want him to be gimp because he also has monk, and thus had to spend all his merits on that. I want him to be fully merited on both.

Maybe they should allow one job to 100, and make it if you change your mind on that job, and switch to a different job to 100 then it will make the last one go back to Lv1 which would seem like a fair price to pay for those leeches who abyssea burn everything anyways... And could be a good way to keep the gil flowing for those who do the AoEing :P

It's funny how a rep came in and COMPLETELY derailed this guy's thread. The original post had nothing to do with 99 vs. 100, it was about adding a new quest to "promote" a 99 job to a "better" version of the job at 99, kinda like how it worked in the original FF (you had to go through a dungeon to fetch a Rat Tail). Or for those of you that played the original Shining Force games, what happens to almost all of your characters in those games (Knight to Paladin, Warrior to Gladiator, Magician to Wizard, etc.). The idea is definitely asking too much though, if just for the fact that these upgraded jobs would need to be added in the requirements for old gear and all kinds of balancing acts that would go along with essentially 20 newish jobs. Like the first reply said (pretty much the only one on-topic), it's like asking for a new game.
Camate, what you posted wasn't "slightly different" than the OP's suggestion, it didn't have anything to do with his post except the number 99! The least you can do for the guy is relay his actual suggestion to the devs (so they can shoot it down with their excuse cannon).

That said, most FF games had a cap of 99 simply because the game wasn't programmed to allow any higher levels. 2 digits only. That's how you knew there was nowhere left to go. 100 doesn't "feel" capped, it doesn't imply that it's the end of the line. 99 does. So yeah, 99's better.

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Originally Posted by Sephoroth

Maybe they should allow one job to 100, and make it if you change your mind on that job, and switch to a different job to 100 then it will make the last one go back to Lv1 which would seem like a fair price to pay for those leeches who abyssea burn everything anyways

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Um... how do you figure? It would be completely the opposite. The Abyssea leeches would only take another day to get the job back up to 99. The people who play normally would take months again. This promotes leeching EXP and punishes people leveling traditionally.

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Originally Posted by Kaych

Well, now that I read this, I'd prefer lvl 99. The reason for this is cos its the Final Fantasy "tradition" to have lvl 99.

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It's already been mentioned several times, but there is no such tradition.There have been numerical limits in older FF's due to design and interface choices, but it's not a written-in-stone FF tradition and it has been ignored in more recent FF's.
In fact, it would be a particularly odd thing in FFXI. Our skills and stats cap at 999, not 255. And damage display caps at 65535 (and it still goes beyond, as could be seen by the broken brewed Wildfire numbers.)
Even crafting caps at 100, but gear and buffs can take it beyond that; it's an artificial barrier due to lack of recipes.

The only valid reason I've seen to date is RDM's Composure, but that same reason applied to WHM's Afflatus Solace/Misery and RDM's Convert, and SE dealt with that by making WHM abilities main-only and RDM free for the taking (because RDM wouldn't be RDM if it had anything it could do better then another job.) So it's obvious SE can deal with whatever balancing challenge lvl 50 subjobs offer.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

The only valid reason I've seen to date is RDM's Composure

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Once again I have to ask myself, why would Composure be significant for other jobs, let alone significant enough to merit blocking a level cap increase of one level, even if it wasn't blocked? I can't see a single good reason.

Most of the benefits are outpaced by other sub job choices and for Red Mage main, you get better bonuses from Composure then other jobs get, such as decreased recast penalty from better Fast Cast, increased duration from gear, and the ability to make the duration bonus apply to others.

Is it self Refresh duration? Because that's the only possible logic based argument I can think of at this point, and that's a pretty big joke compared to Convert, and an even bigger joke compared to subbing Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Is it self Refresh duration? Because that's the only possible logic based argument I can think of at this point, and that's a pretty big joke compared to Convert, and an even bigger joke compared to subbing Scholar.

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Easy, next the people stating Composure is relevant as a role defining job ability will start to cry about why subbing RDM gives Convert.

The thing is, it isn't a valid reason. Never will be.

Oh my, the mages used Composure to cast buffs. :| wow. Oh wait, the PLD/RDM soloing would be completely broken right?

There's no justifiable reason, or rhyme as to why Composure can even be categorized as a Role Defining Job Ability. It's just a mindless excuse. I wouldn't be surprised if questions regarding features like 99 vs 100 or otherwise of the same type of nature will be solely directed at JP Forums.

Give Yonin/Innin/Afflatus while subbed. They're not role defining abilities.

Even stating this, I still voted for 100 regardless of whether others get Composure or not. Level 5 petrify/Composure/some abstract sense of tradition isn't a reason to not have level 100.

As Camate already pointed out ( as well as several other people ), the abilities from sub-jobs are irrelevant to the discussion because they will just block them as they see fit. I like 100 better. Nobody cares, especially the Developers.

P.S. WTF is this thread still doing here?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

As Camate already pointed out ( as well as several other people ), the abilities from sub-jobs are irrelevant to the discussion because they will just block them as they see fit. I like 100 better. Nobody cares, especially the Developers.

P.S. WTF is this thread still doing here?

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Because for whatever reason the devs have been really slow about giving camate anything to post about. I kinda miss the daily 4~5 dev posts, but what are you gonna do? :P