Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sayelle

I have been kicked from pick up exp parties for doing too much damage and killing mobs too fast...

---

I got kicked from pickup exp parties for being a WAR90, having at least 2 keywhores in the alliance, but not having keys on hand and not opening chests.

You know, doing my job.

They even kicked me when I voke-pull a mob just to see me die, which I didn't >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaenRyong

It's not though. Technically implies an exact definition, and the exact (literal) definition of cheating is an activity against a given set of rules. The rules suggest you are able to level up in any way which involves you gaining experience.

I think you have to drop the word "cheating" and just say "I don't like it when people level up outside of exping", because there is no justification for it otherwise.

---

This is a very sensible post.

I think that this Panthera dude might in fact mean "cheating yourself out of the wonderful experience of leveling in the manner I deem acceptable".

None of what Panthera has claimed to be cheating is, in fact, cheating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korpg

Wait, is this your argument? Because Abyssea gives a chance for a level 30 newcommer to get to 90 as soon as possible, they can't do any of the stuff that everyone else had to do pre-abyssea?

What are they really missing?

Outdated and horrible-to-wear/use Artifacts?
Meaningless quests with no real rewards?
NMs that does nothing (looking at you Mimas)?
Missions that they can do at a stronger level by themselves compared to a level 30 perspective of the same fights?

You really think that they are missing anything? Do you really want them to go thru years of torment because you went thru the same thing? For what? Because you feel justified in doing the same thing everyone did at that time?

Come on man, stop being selfish. Telling everyone they are cheating and/or demanding this level cap will cause new players to LEAVE which is what we don't want in this game at its stage of life cycle.

---

Speaking as a re-roller who started from scratch, I agree. Why should I have to spend a year toiling through useless and outdated content before I can get to max level and get good gear?

Then I can go back and work on the content that is worth doing, instead of relying on people to carry me through it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Panthera

It's unreasonable to say well, if you skip 1, why not all of them? Because people aren't perfect, but just because a judge lets it slide when you're going 1 miles over the limit doesn't mean you shouldn't be fined for going over by 10. It is arbitrary, but it is also reasonable. The definition of cheating is absolutely in no way arbitrary; the application is, and one must be reasonable in those applications. Both being reasonable with when someone is cheating only a little, but also reasonable with when someone is cheating a lot.

---

those are your opinion on what you deem is reasonable and unreasonable. As many have said in the thread most consider it reasonable simply because SE allows it. Who are you to decide what is reasonable for us?

So basically you just spent 10+ pages trying to make it sound like your way is absolute when it's really in the end just your opinion.

I know guys, sorry for bring up some old stuff. But I GOT to reply to some of it. Please forgive me for getting to this thread so late in the topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akujima

@Panthera: Good luck trying to get any point across. It's quite obvious that it's impossible to have a mature debate with anyone here.

---

Mature as in what? Ignoring people with valid, sound opinions and replying/referring to those who are obviously trying to get you to respond in a way that undermines your entire argument? Because they have undermined your argument in previous pages, doesn't mean that everyone is not being "mature".

Besides, what does maturity mean to you? Agreeing with you? Because that is the only "definition" I have seen of anyone being "mature" in your mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korpg

I have a question for the anti-abyssea leech people.

I'm currently doing ice TotM staff (ya ya, I know, I'm gimp for not having it done by now, bite me).

I'm on Trial 1708. Thats the "kill 200 bees with 150+ ice damage at the end"

Now, I'm in Wajorm linking 6 bees together, nuking them down to 0 with Blizzaga III at the end, and collecting 6 kills at once. According to your logic, that is a shortcut, and shortcuts are bad. You would rather have me kill each bee individually, effectively doubling the 3 hours this would take to 6 hours worth of work. Why?

Also, while I was doing the "kill 150 arcana mobs with 50+ ice damage" part, I did snolls in Ugly range. During ice weather, snow geodes dropped. Now I have 15 snow geodes for my final trial. Since I have my final trial done already, is that considered cheating since I went out of order and/or did 2 trials at the same time, which the game "intended" people to do 1 trial at a time?

What is your response to that?

---

My response to this is, the lot of you are fanatical and won't grasp the concept of a healthy balance. You keep coming up with extreme examples to defend your case. If the cap to Abyssea was 70~75, Abyssea would be no different then it is now, it would just balance out the population outside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Korpg

Wait, is this your argument? Because Abyssea gives a chance for a level 30 newcommer to get to 90 as soon as possible, they can't do any of the stuff that everyone else had to do pre-abyssea?

What are they really missing?

Outdated and horrible-to-wear/use Artifacts?
Meaningless quests with no real rewards?
NMs that does nothing (looking at you Mimas)?
Missions that they can do at a stronger level by themselves compared to a level 30 perspective of the same fights?

You really think that they are missing anything? Do you really want them to go thru years of torment because you went thru the same thing? For what? Because you feel justified in doing the same thing everyone did at that time?

Come on man, stop being selfish. Telling everyone they are cheating and/or demanding this level cap will cause new players to LEAVE which is what we don't want in this game at its stage of life cycle.

---

Actually, right now in Asura I can name 4~5 people that I just met, who are new to the game or are returning from a very long long time ago. They don't do Abyssea, and they don't plan to until they hit 75. The only people who would be complaining, are those who haven't leeched all their jobs to Lv90. One of those players also told me her boyfriend quit playing BECAUSE of Abyssea, but she still plays the other content that you consider a waste of time. So YES, people are still playing and do other things in this game, even if they don't like Abyssea.

Also, what are you afraid of? You think the LvCap will be risen? SE will not even comment on this thread, because any comment will have a negative response from the community. The sole reason I created this thread, was to show SE that there is an imbalance in the design of Abyssea and to not make the same mistake over again when creating the Lv99 endgame content.

Abyssea was most likely a test design for the Dev's to see how the players react to it. They have already said there won't be anymore Abyssea zones, but the fact that people can skyrocket all the way to Lv90 (and 99 when it comes out) makes the "normal" way to exp obsolete.

And answer this: What is the point in having those other zones, with other content such as FoV, GoV and "normal" EXP Zones/Mobs, if Abyssea is truly the only worthwhile way to LvUp? It's basically the same comparison with equipment found inside Abyssea and equipment found inside Salvage/Nyzul/Sky/Sea/Einherjar/ZNM. All that gear is useless now because of Abyssea gear and now with Lv30 Cap, all those zones designed to LvUp 30~75 are useless because of Abyssea EXP gain.

Expansions/Addons shouldn't make everything else completely useless, there should be a reason to complete all that other content still. You think the majority of people who thought it was ok to AbyLeech, will waste their time going through that other content? I think not.


...

I don't know why I continue posting here...ugh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akujima

My response to this is, the lot of you are fanatical and won't grasp the concept of a healthy balance. You keep coming up with extreme examples to defend your case. If the cap to Abyssea was 70~75, Abyssea would be no different then it is now, it would just balance out the population outside.

---

Wait, you are calling people here fanatical when you are the one defending a very unpopular and defeated viewpoint?

My example isn't extreme, its happening right now. Do a /sea all Kingnobody (better do that soon, I'm on 9 kills left) and you will see that my example is true.

As for putting Abyssea to 70-75 cap. Guess what. Astral Flow Burns will become very popular all over again. Paid PLs will become very popular again (which means that the PL will paid by the soloer to level with them, why would anybody pay to have somebody else leech off the exp?) FoV/GoV will be overcamped...again.

What you are suggesting is not the main solution to your problem, its spreading the problem to another part of the game. And odds are, you will complain about that too!

"SE, FoV is overcamped, do something about that or face the wrath of Akujima"

Edit: My /sea all example is no longer valid, because I'm finished with that trial and am no longer there. So sorry Akujima, you missed out. But the example you quoted and therefor assumed it was extreme was still valid. And true. And not extreme

Quote:

---

And answer this: What is the point in having those other zones, with other content such as FoV, GoV and "normal" EXP Zones/Mobs, if Abyssea is truly the only worthwhile way to LvUp? It's basically the same comparison with equipment found inside Abyssea and equipment found inside Salvage/Nyzul/Sky/Sea/Einherjar/ZNM. All that gear is useless now because of Abyssea gear and now with Lv30 Cap, all those zones designed to LvUp 30~75 are useless because of Abyssea EXP gain.

---

The point was to give people like you a choice.

While Abyssea is the fastest way to level up past 30, it's hardly the only option.

Just for arguments sake I've been doing some pages on WAR for a couple of reasons:
-Breaking out the NPC every now and then
-Getting some skills ups in the bargain

You know what I've found though? It's dead boring, it's dead slow.

I also plan to give campaign a go once I hit 60 just for the hell of it, and I suspect I'm going to come to the exact same conclusion. The only problem there is I don't even get skill ups for my troubles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akujima

Expansions/Addons shouldn't make everything else completely useless, there should be a reason to complete all that other content still. You think the majority of people who thought it was ok to AbyLeech, will waste their time going through that other content? I think not.

---

You think wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akujima

All that gear is useless now because of Abyssea gear and now with Lv30 Cap, all those zones designed to LvUp 30~75 are useless because of Abyssea EXP gain.

---

Yeah and my level 1 bronze cap was useless when I got to level 10 and I could wear the basty conquest gear cap. What's your point? You think that old gear should be top of the line forever? Crap changes. Deal with it.