Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

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</ thread >

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Originally Posted by kaht

</ thread >

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It would be, but, like, it's just their opinion, man.

There is one thing I'll give abyssea credit for.

Making the cry babies even louder than they used to be.

Why are his opinions laughable? You just compared an in game, perfectly legitimate mechanic to rmt. Those two things aren't really similar. I'd say it's fairly laughable to compare them. I've leeched jobs. I've had fun playing them. I took the time to find and get decent gear for them, then took even more time skilling any necessary weapon before I even thought about using them.

Yet there are people who have leveled entirely legitimately who wear full teal, can't play their jobs and are frankly appalling at the game.

Bad players will always exist. I'm not one for being stuck in a qufim island until 55, then being stuck on Colibri til 70. Prior to contrary belief hitting a ws macro every time my TP reaches 100% isn't teaching me a whole lot about my job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

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I wouldn't quite call it game yet...
and i quote: Characters must be level 30 or above in order to undertake the quests of the battle add-on. Battles, however, are designed to pose a challenge to characters level 75 or higher.

So, if my understanding of abyssea's experience is correct, if not, then blame the people that explained it to me. lol
You gain experience from the monster's if you are level 61+ and if you under only from the chests, so all they have to do is block the experience gain from the chest's to a restricted level, say 70+. Even if the what i understand about the experience is wrong, my point here is still valid, if they do that, they won't be in any legal issue's because they did not promise experience.

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Originally Posted by Nightstrike

I wouldn't quite call it game yet...
and i quote: Characters must be level 30 or above in order to undertake the quests of the battle add-on. Battles, however, are designed to pose a challenge to characters level 75 or higher.

So, if my understanding of abyssea's experience is correct, if not, then blame the people that explained it to me. lol
You gain experience from the monster's if you are level 61+ and if you under only from the chests, so all they have to do is block the experience gain from the chest's to a restricted level, say 70+. Even if the what i understand about the experience is wrong, my point here is still valid, if they do that, they won't be in any legal issue's because they did not promise experience.

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Maybe you're not from America, in which case not knowing is understandable, but Americans will still sue. They might even still win if SE doesn't pony up enough to strongarm the court into silence. And SE won't want to pay the money required to defend themselves in court because a small portion of their subscribers want them to risk it.

It makes zero business sense. It's not going to happen.

No, i am, and i also know how many stupid people try and sue for stupid thing's they have no footing on, and those case's get tossed out almost instantly.

"Waaaaaaaah!!!!! WAaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!! Cry Some More!!!!"

Heavy
Team Fortress 2

I'm still not sure why so many people think that exping at 1-74 teaches people so much. Often times the game is played entirely different after 75, and anything you learned prior to that will just reinforce bad habits. This is particularly true for jobs like rdm, blm, smn, pld, etc. And even then, ffxi is NOT a hard game. Anyone can easily learn how to play a job well within a day or two, and within a week to a month can be an expert.

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Originally Posted by Valiarius

You're still going for that 100k post count?

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I dunno how practical that would be on a forum where deleted posts don't count towards your post count (i've already had 100+ posts deleted), but sure.

It's funny to see people leaving parties if there are too many leechers in a party because of if one person has good atmas, that person will be doing doing half of the damage caused by the entire alliance because of a lot of people still haven't heard about atmas yet.

Hell you'd probably heal a lot better with a 50 WHM with 3 atmas than a 75 WHM with none.

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Originally Posted by Lilsanchez

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

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Wow wow wow not me! Not the ones I know too.

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Originally Posted by Solonuke

Hell you'd probably heal a lot better with a 50 WHM with 3 atmas than a 75 WHM with none.

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I healed more on 50 blm than level 80+ whms were when i "leeched' it up back during scars, simply because i had 15/tic refresh from atmas, and they had none. While they were frequently resting because they couldn't keep, i literally couldn't use up my mp even if i wanted to, and was limited only by cure 3's recast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

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This is exactly I've been trying to say. Abyssea is just a marketing strategy before the end of FFXI. The way they designed the aby zones including emp wpn, armor, xp and others are way off balance.

This is no longer a gamers game, it's changing to a 2-hour game for all everyone much like WoW.

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Originally Posted by Sama

This is exactly I've been trying to say. Abyssea is just a marketing strategy before the end of FFXI. The way they designed the aby zones including emp wpn, armor, xp and others are way off balance.

This is no longer a gamers game, it's changing to a 2-hour game for all everyone much like WoW.

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Abyssea is interim content, and it is over with at level 90. This is not even "Endgame". It is casual content for casual players once they hit level 99. I highly doubt there is not a completely separate Endgame system being developed for the level 99 cap.

Empyrean Weapons are also nowhere near complete. The 50/50/75 trials inside Abyssea are just the next tier up from the 4/4/6 VNM trials. It's just a pattern utilizing the next step up in the NM system. Dragua was not meant to be the final trial for my Verethragna.

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Originally Posted by rog

I healed more on 50 blm than level 80+ whms were when i "leeched' it up back during scars, simply because i had 15/tic refresh from atmas, and they had none. While they were frequently resting because they couldn't keep, i literally couldn't use up my mp even if i wanted to, and was limited only by cure 3's recast.

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When you are able to contribute to a party that is not leeching which is why it was suggested earlier and agreed with by several of the anti-leech people that level 50 would be a more fair compromise since many support and healer jobs can contribute at this level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aliekber

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

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Now if only that pesky TOS claiming the game can and will change at any time without warning wasn't in effect. You know, the one we all agreed to when playing this game? Yeah, that little thing.

They could make Abyssea level requirement be 90 and can legally get away with it just because of their TOS.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Now if only that pesky TOS claiming the game can and will change at any time without warning wasn't in effect. You know, the one we all agreed to when playing this game? Yeah, that little thing.

They could make Abyssea level requirement be 90 and can legally get away with it just because of their TOS.

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True, this is both scary and a relief since they can change things that aren't benefiting the player base as well as even things we like at the drop of a hat

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Originally Posted by Dubberrucky

When you are able to contribute to a party that is not leeching which is why it was suggested earlier and agreed with by several of the anti-leech people that level 50 would be a more fair compromise since many support and healer jobs can contribute at this level.

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Why can't opening chests be considered contributing? You are expending cruor and helping the party.

because normal party members can easily do this as well as still contribute

Not if the party is any good, or rather has any good player with them. I one shot most IT EXP mobs with a single WS, so no I'd rather not spend time digging through chests when I could be slaughtering monsters. Even shoving this duty onto the mages can be problematic, as it leaves them unable to properly respond to situations that require immediate attention or to properly do their jobs in general.

Except they, perhaps, don't wish to strain themselves while also contributing damage. They may also not want to expend cruor. Clearly there's a niche for it otherwise parties wouldn't opt for one.

I don't even see why it's a problem. Let people play the way they want. You want more classic parties? Make them, nothing is stopping you. You're delerious if you think the state of partying will suddenly become exponentially better if we remove leeching. People will go back to Astral flows (also much contested, but never stopped by SE) and very few people will level a new job.

Why is this thread still open? Idea was stupid to begin with, and it's not going to happen. End of discussion.

A key macro takes less than 1 second to hit so if that is too taxing to add to any job then your DD is probably afk anyway. And just as you don't see why leeching is a problem I do not see the need for it to ruin my game experiences either another matter of opinion. Your opinion wont stop me from trying and mine wont stop anyone from trying to find any loophole not to do any work in the game. Bottom line there are people out there that are sick of arriving to a party to find out that it is a waste of time with 5or more leeches in it. There are leechless aby parties out there that and they do exceptionally well so there is still hope in the world they are just rare.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Not if the party is any good, or rather has any good player with them. I one shot most IT EXP mobs with a single WS, so no I'd rather not spend time digging through chests when I could be slaughtering monsters. Even shoving this duty onto the mages can be problematic, as it leaves them unable to properly respond to situations that require immediate attention or to properly do their jobs in general.

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/item "forbidden key" <stnpc>

I play the game to play the game, not to sit in slow exp parties for hours on end. If I have the opportunity to leech a job to cap, I'm going to take it. Why? because I'm at the point where I actually want to get stuff for myself rather then doing the same old grind. So if I can leech my WHM up to cap and then duo a crap ton of NMs for +2 items with a friend, hell yes I'm going to take it. You guys need to stop crying. I don't want to play the game mediocre anymore, with 5 years of playing under my belt I'm far past that point. Versatility is key in this game now and Abyssea offers that with it's leveling/leeching system. The game has developed into 90% lowman, so having mulitple jobs to offer is going to benefit everyone more then an attitude about how leeching has negative effects. I will concede to the point that people who leech jobs and then don't skill up are hurting everyone they're with, but you have the option to not run with them. Build something around the other jobs they have instead of gimping the party, because I'n sure they have at least one job that isn't gimped skill wise.

There are so many damn ways to play this game. Stop crying about how the way you don't like or aren't good at is wrong. It's ridiculous. Somebody has to open chests, and at the rate that mobs get killed in my parties, it's a fulltime job. So someone leeching isn't hurting the exp rate. If that key person was killing as well as keys then we'd lose chests or mobs would die slower. Just play how you want and stop putting a damper on the game for the rest of us who enjoy the system.

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Originally Posted by Kuishen

Why is this thread still open? Idea was stupid to begin with, and it's not going to happen. End of discussion.

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Just like people are usually more willing to take the easy path, people are also very reluctant to any sorts of change. SE could implement a change that everyone has been asking for, and you will still have a loud group of people complaining... because people don't like change.

So I'm just going to agree that the minimum level allowed in abyssea is fine, because obviously the game hasn't fallen apart in the half-year that it's been out, and it doesn't seem to be heading that way.

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Originally Posted by rog

/item "forbidden key" <stnpc>

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I have that bound to a key, personally :( I was speaking in reference to the lowest common denominator.

Edit: @ Dubber, any single good player can have a party comprised of themselves and 17 leeches and really not give a hoot at all. Really. Mobs are not hard. If there isn't a single good player among the 13 non-leeches, including yourself, then I dare say that's the problem.

As much as I hate leeches I don't think they should do this. It is way to hard to find a tank past 30 to get decent exp.

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Originally Posted by svengalis

As much as I hate leeches I don't think they should do this. It is way to hard to find a tank past 30 to get decent exp.

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People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o

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I admit, I rofl'd a bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o

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And some will until the game dies -.-

I'm sure people still think only PLD and NIN are tanks.

Wow, lots of butt hurt people in this thread over fast exp. Fact is SE knew exactly how their abyssea XP system would work because they created and tailored it to their liking. They could have easily kept bird camps competitive exp spots by making abyssea mob XP cap at 200-300. In addition, there is literally ZERO content for level 30s to do inside abyssea, making it even MORE apparent that SE intended for there to be leeches.

In short, continue to cry, for your tears sustain SE overlords.

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Originally Posted by Juxtaposition

Wow, lots of butt hurt people in this thread over fast exp. Fact is SE knew exactly how their abyssea XP system would work because they created and tailored it to their liking. They could have easily kept bird camps competitive exp spots by making abyssea mob XP cap at 200-300. In addition, there is literally ZERO content for level 30s to do inside abyssea, making it even MORE apparent that SE intended for there to be leeches.

In short, continue to cry, for your tears sustain SE overlords.

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Quests can be done at level 30.

I dont mind the new way but as a vet player I miss how things where at time before abyssea. I tend to stay away from the area until im around lvl 60+ so I can get to know my job and e able to level my skills while i level. Players who do level from 30 on up with a new job frankly I hate partying with them or doing things because they have no idea how to play their job correctly and if they do then they tend to have zero skill to go with it. Its also irritating when someone busts there butt to level a job and get to know how to play it skill it etc. lets say thf or dnc for example and a person comes through who lvled it to 90 within 2 days get more rewards then the person who truely loves and knows the jobs. Frankly I agree that the level does need to increase regarding abyssea entrence.

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Originally Posted by rog

Quests can be done at level 30.

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Yeah but, for what? Seals and whatnot for gear that's level 80+? Let's face it, Abyssea is a 70+ zone meant for 70+ players. I'm not saying it'd be a good idea for them to reduce the level cap now, but it's hard to argue that there is much of a point to a level 30 being there other than to stand around and to leech exp. You can make the argument that they would make a good candidate for someone to pop chests, but honestly when I look to Abyssea pty and we need someone to pop chests I'd rather get someone who is 70+ and has the option of being otherwise useful than someone taking the fast route.

And I'm not saying the fast route is bad, but exp is pretty damn fast now outside of Abyssea, and you can nail some good skill-ups along the way. Taking the Abyssea burning route though you really need to be on top of your game: I've seen players getting their jobs burned and sure they know the strategy behind the job but it just isn't as automatic for them because they don't have the experience playing the job for so long. One of the positive things about grinding is that it kinda cements that stuff into you, and things come to you quickly and without having to think as much. The skill I worry about someone losing when they Abyssea burn a job isn't even the combat skills or their magic skills, but the skill of knowing how to play the job. I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of people who can learn the job fast, but there are plenty who can't.

But honestly what bothers me most about Abyssea burning is that it accelerates the population decline of the game. My LS is very newbie friendly and we bring new people in all the time but its very hard to get them into Abyssea groups and they usually end up quitting. I know people will snark and say that new people aren't joining this game, but there are many who are, but you never see them because there isn't a game infrastructure to reliably get them to the upper levels. Very few parties, no cruor so they can't get invited to Abyssea leech, and no gear for them to buy on the AH makes this game not quite worth it to push through, and no new people coming in pretty much ensures a perpetual population decline.

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Originally Posted by Avina

Yeah but, for what? Seals and whatnot for gear that's level 80+?

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Sure, why not? Or maybe to gain cruor, so they can afford some abyssites, maps, and confluxes when they get up to 75+.

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Originally Posted by Avina

But honestly what bothers me most about Abyssea burning is that it accelerates the population decline of the game. My LS is very newbie friendly and we bring new people in all the time but its very hard to get them into Abyssea groups and they usually end up quitting. I know people will snark and say that new people aren't joining this game, but there are many who are, but you never see them because there isn't a game infrastructure to reliably get them to the upper levels. Very few parties, no cruor so they can't get invited to Abyssea leech, and no gear for them to buy on the AH makes this game not quite worth it to push through, and no new people coming in pretty much ensures a perpetual population decline.

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True strike, as well do not forget that the same applies to the people coming back to the game after a while and there are a lot of them coming back too being quite frustrated with their return.

Lol so now you guys are complaining about people who can't leech? Make up your minds.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Lol so now you guys are complaining about people who can't leech? Make up your minds.

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On the contrary its that they have very limited options thanks to leeching its solo or be just as bad as the other horrible players that get kicked from partys.