What happened to the 180k gil/entry for a 18 cap fight?
this was really something to make it more interesting to even try out Legion on a 18 cap fight and where it dont hurt to much if you pay for it and can only kill half the mobs...
really not motivation to see devs dont care about makeing Legion more interesting /doable for players.
Legion still sucks.
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06-04-2012, 03:25 AMMindi
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06-04-2012, 03:37 AMAlhanelemhalf the players doesn't mean half the mobs. The enemies are half the HP and you're supposed to be able to kill about the same assuming ability to survive.Quote:
this was really something to make it more interesting to even try out Legion on a 18 cap fight and where it dont hurt to much if you pay for it and can only kill half the mobs...
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06-05-2012, 11:17 AMVortexQuote:
Originally Posted by MarkovChain
/facepalm, /facepalm, i didnt bother responding to you anymore because of your tunnle vision view but jesus,
yes, everything is useless, everywhere, unless its for meele only and has +100 attack, acc 50 str, dex, vit, w/e
you seem to forget that just because you use certain jobs and dislike other jobs, and therefore find things "useless" does not speak for everyone.
if prov is not worth your time to get spells you have no use for, why the hell would you even put that as a comparison, to me, prov is not worth going for at all aside for the spells. it has "nice" gear but nothing worth breaking your neck over, but oh, going by your dumb logic that should what everyone should be thinking.
Your opinion dosn't mean that is what everyone's opinion is, bottom line, neither spell is useless. TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PLAY WHM AND BLM, period. to you? yes. what use do braindead meele users have with spells?
Do not care what you "could" buy it them for, the prices they are now are retarded, as well as anyone who actually waste gill on them. i got both for FREE because i acttualy do the BCs not sit here and whine that they are useless because i can't get them or dont use either mage job.
I don't why i even borther responding to you, posting on a diffrent user name, you have the same low IQ. -
06-05-2012, 11:39 AMscaevola
What would Arise or Meteor actually enable you to do better than you can do right now? The three-minute weakness timer on Arise is pointless for wipe recovery unless multiple WHMs have it (and even then, not as fast as everyone using Reraise like they should), and Meteor does not, on paper, look especially useful unless you've got a bunch of BLMs together.....who all have Meteor.
PS you didn't get them for free. It cost you the exact same 20 million as anyone else.
(ITT yet another example of pchan saying pretty uncontroversial things in a really aggressive way, thus baiting others into untenable positions because they don't want to agree with him about anything, ever) -
06-05-2012, 11:51 AMVortexThe same thing any other peice of armor from the BC does for you. in fact, you can play the rest of this game with all your jobs in full AF3 and never get another peice of gear again, the use in those spells depend ont he people who use those jobs. i wont sit here and explain it because it's something you have to actually expreince for you self.Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
I am assuming this was saracsm, because obviously the dragon requires that i give him 20 mil each time for a scrollQuote:
PS you didn't get them for free. It cost you the exact same 20 million as anyone else.
I usually ignore the moron, but sometimes his stupidity gets to me and i have to let him know that. this time he sucked me in, but back to ignoring.Quote:
(ITT yet another example of pchan saying pretty uncontroversial things in a really aggressive way, thus baiting others into untenable positions because they don't want to agree with him about anything, ever)
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06-05-2012, 11:52 AMMahoroJesus H. Christ, is this still going on? She's saying they aren't useless, with which I agree. Are they game-changing? Fuck no. Are they nice to have? Fuck yes. Do you want a use for Arise? Here are two:Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
Inalienable truth #1: Not everybody remembers to put Reraise up 100% of the time, or has time to do so in a high-intensity AOE situation where they Raise only to wipe again. If this has never happened to you, congratulations. If you deny this has never happened to anyone you know ever, I call shenanigans. Even great players, if you only run with those, have an off day.
Inalienable Truth #2: Not all DD are made equal, as parsewhores are well aware (you know who you are). I tend to hand out Arise to the best DD's in a group when I know the extra 2 minutes can enable them to get back in the fray that much quicker. And nobody has ever said to me "Oh Raise III would have been fine enough" when their weakness drops early and they don't have to waste a Reraise charge.
And it IS possible to get them for free. I don't know how she got them, but you can get them for free via a LS like I did or by a very lucky freelot.
EDIT: You will never see me argue Arise or Meteor are gamechanging or essential for every WHM or BLM to have. They are luxury items, in the same vein as most of those 99 R/M/E's everyone seems to be striving for that cost tens/hundreds of millions of gil for minor stat increases which will likely never be the difference between beating a mob and not beating a mob, and will likely only serve for people to jab each over parses. Are 99 R/M/E's gamechanging? No. Are they nice to have? Sure, ok. Are people now going to disallow the same right to want luxury items to WHM's and BLM's? Illogical. -
06-05-2012, 11:55 AMVortexQuote:
Originally Posted by Mahoro
hahahah yes, my server has 2 very decidated VW shouters, and the groups allow FL by comment, i got both that way. my shell knows me for my flucating luck and im sure most arent happy with that fact >.> but yes they both came from free lots by comment (had to beat 5+ people on each one) -
06-05-2012, 11:57 AMMahoro
Ah, very nice Vortex, grats :)
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06-05-2012, 01:55 PMRakshaQuote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex
He's probably talking about opportunity cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahoro
You lose 20M by using the scroll instead of selling it etc. etc. -
06-05-2012, 07:32 PMCamiieThat and time is money. You can chase the scroll or go make guaranteed gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
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06-05-2012, 10:07 PMMahoro
1) Opportunity cost is subjective, 2) I doubt you'd get 20M for either scroll, 3) if Return1 is to be believed, people don't waste anytime idling in Port Jeuno waiting on PUGs (read: they do), 4) I personally wouldn't chase the scroll any more than regular events in my shell, and 5) Vortex got very lucky and is to be congratulated, and at least spent her time doing something more interesting than farming Dynamis.
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06-05-2012, 10:11 PMscaevolait's a little sad people need that explained, but if FFXI players (other than pchan, hilariously) actually understood opportunity cost the game would probably have to shut downQuote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
This is the distilled essence of everything pchan posts on these boards, and while it leads to the uncontroversial opinions I take such pleasure in seeing people work themselves in knots trying to debunk, I do think he takes it to an extreme (ADL ALL DAY EVERY DAY) that is somewhat self-defeating in the context of a video game meant to be a pleasant waste of time.Quote:
Camiie sez time is money, friend!
At any rate, we end up back where I started: you pay 20 million (or 10 million, or some other very significant sum) for the privilege of covering for jackasses that forgot to bring Reraise. THAT MIGHT BE WORTH IT TO YOU, but it's an objectively indefensible position. -
06-05-2012, 10:20 PMMahoro
Leading economists disagree.
https://www.google.com/search?source....0.DUCcp-r9ibk
Yes, time is money. Opportunity cost can be subjective. Only the chooser can determine the most attractive alternative for itself from its special point of view. We each have a different list of things valued in decline from top to bottom due to our different aims of life, philosophy, etc. Even for the same activity or good or service, different individuals take it with different opportunity cost.
EDIT: You edited your prior comment. Doubtless you understood that I wasn't saying there isn't an opportunity cost, just that it differs for people. You can't pass judgment on the list of things from top to bottom someone who uses the scroll has. They just differ from YOUR goals.
EDIT2: Already said it did more than your listed function. Nothing objectively indefensible about it. -
06-05-2012, 10:27 PMscaevola
No, leading economists disagree that opportunity cost is always static for each person, which is what they mean when they say "subjective". If you could get somebody to pay 15 million for a scroll of Arise and you know that you could do that the moment you click it to learn the spell, your opportunity cost is 15 million. Subjectivity doesn't apply here because we know exactly what somebody else will pay us for the item in question.
In fact, the subjectivity of opportunity costs is frequently discussed in the context of depreciation of the value of goods, which in this case, dealing with a hot ticket, brand new spell that we can be reasonably assured will only get cheaper and may get dramatically cheaper very quickly if it shows up in other events, makes keeping it while it's worth so much even dumber.
What you are arguing is that sometimes people attach sentimental value to things unrelated to economic costs, which I totally agree with, but betrays a core underlying premise of economics as a whole (and why I believe a lot of economics are on rather shaky ground intellectually, for what it's worth), which is that people behave as rational economic actors. I'm not opposed to discussing economics on this board but if you aren't going to start with that premise, doing so is pretty pointless. -
06-05-2012, 10:29 PMMahoro
Isn't that another way of stating what I said? As I said in my edit above, I wasn't saying there isn't an opportunity cost, just that it differs for people.
If you are using the sell-while-high doctrine, you could also argue that the scroll itself is languishing in bazaars across servers, and then you have to factor in the subjective value of the difference in value to you over using the scroll then and there, and waiting 3, 4, 5 months (?) for the scroll to fall down perhaps a few million in price while you went without the benefit.
Moral of the story: one man's trash is another man's treasure? -
06-05-2012, 10:36 PMscaevola
You said the opportunity cost was "subjective"; in this case, it is not, because people spend 20 million gil on this scroll all the time.
Or not, maybe. I concede on reflection that since sales are carried out via Bazaar there's no way for us to track what people are actually buying it for. If it needs to be lower, and, say, 15 million were a more appropriate price, the opportunity cost would be 15 million. Still quite a bit more than the utility of the spell is worth, which I stand by because you've already admitted it's pretty useless.
There's a difference between understanding economics and being good at sales. At any rate, I was just mentioning that in terms of the concept of subjectivity as generally understood HEAVILY favoring getting rid of a scroll of Arise or Meteor as quickly as possible, right now.Quote:
If you are using the sell-while-high doctrine, you could also argue that the scroll itself is languishing in bazaars across servers, and then you have to factor in the subjective value of the difference in value to you over using the scroll then and there, and waiting 3, 4, 5 months (?) for the scroll to fall down perhaps a few million in price while you went without the benefit.
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06-05-2012, 10:39 PMMahoro
Yes, as the subjective theory goes, opportunity-cost decisions are the subjective valuations of individuals. It can be seen as "the rejected subjective plan of an individual—one that is never implemented at all." Viewing it from the endpoint of the individual rather than the start point of the buyer. You are assuming the scroll isn't worth more than 20M to the person using it, that the person does not compare the benefits of having the scroll to the value to other people, or that the person has other goals that would take that 20M.
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06-05-2012, 10:51 PMMahoroI admitted nothing of the sort. I listed two uses. If you want a third, call it "getting a luxury item". Which isn't denied to people spending 80-100M on upgrading weapons to have a couple more stats (and that opportunity cost), so why deny it to WHM's and BLM's?Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
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06-05-2012, 10:54 PMscaevola
No, I am not assuming the scroll isn't worth more than 20 million to the person using it. It clearly is.
What I am assuming is that such a person is a total moron, and one of the cornerstones of economic theory (indeed, again, IMHO one of the weaknesses of classical economics) is that people are not total morons (economists use the term "rational economic actors"), because economists do not have the tools to predict what morons will do. -
06-05-2012, 10:55 PMscaevolaPlease list events where people are not reraising themselves. Oh no, I forgot to bring my reraise earring to voidwatch!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahoro
Also, while I understand the idea of giving high DDs a leg up on weakness on paper, I am coming up short with any real practical application for it. Any fight where I can imagine getting one person unweakened two minutes quicker would actually matter involves Embrava, so they're screwed anyway.
Like I said, if FFXI players actually understood opportunity cost the game would probably have to shut down.Quote:
If you want a third, call it "getting a luxury item". Which isn't denied to people spending 80-100M on upgrading weapons to have a couple more stats (and that opportunity cost), so why deny it to WHM's and BLM's?
EDIT: I DO believe there is economic value to luxury items and the value of such items in FFXI weirdly parallels the value they have in the real world; having a 95 Empyrean won't help you get to Floor 100 of Nyzul, for instance, but it will open the door to other people who have 95 Empyreans, which WILL help you, for sure. But then we all remembered this was a video game, and if a 95 Ukon gets you the access of a degree from Harvard Business, a TP Bonus Great Katana is a degree from the University of Michigan Med School. -
06-05-2012, 11:29 PMMahoroThis is actually fraught with subjectivity as well. The person could value the scroll more than 20M because he/she has no other goals with higher priority with that much cost or that are buyable to begin with. When there is nothing more attractive in the market for that person, he would be an irrational economic actor to hold onto the 20M in lieu of accomplishing the goal. I agree very much with your statement about "one of the weaknesses of classical economics"Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
Any event you've ever been to where people forgot to Reraise themselves, ran out of RR temps due to no procs, or died on an ill-timed AOE upon Reraising. Please list events where this never happened to you or anyone else in your group. I can ask rhetorical questions too!Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
Oooh, here's a good way to get back on topic. Legion! (Shortened timer so person can get back in fray for next HNM/Embrava zerg.) I don't even have to say "inb4 Legion sucks". The thread does it for me!Quote:
Originally Posted by scaevola
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06-05-2012, 11:33 PMSparthos
To rerail this thread, the quick fix for Legion would include:
1. Upping the time limit to 60 mins OR giving a time extension on each monster defeated. 30 mins is clearly too short, promotes one strategy and gives very little room for non-zerg jobs.
2. Consider changing the 3 mobs per wave to monsters spawning one right after the other. While I get the point of Legion was to be this place where you're besieged by HNMs, in practice it amounts to stalling the other two while you focus on one target. A simple spawn mechanic of one HNM at a time gives players some breathing room and helps to keep the event orderly and centered on alliance performance rather than if your stallers died holding a mob.
3. Throw in HMPs under the point menus. Seriously, this event would become an instant success if you could simply purchase a bag of plates after 10 or so kills and it goes hand in hand with the repetitive nature of the event. In short, it'd make people want to Legion and that means less work for the devs.
P.S - You can balance this by banning Embrava/Perfect Defense if you see fit. It'd be like trading card games where certain combinations are off-limits for the sake of the overall challenge factor. -
06-06-2012, 12:15 AMscaevolaIn this case, he's irrational for continuing to play FFXI in the face of such radically diminished marginal utility rather than seeking out a new experience, but that's a whole different discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahoro
It's still a useful weakness, if only because it allows us to identify some economic behavior as irrational and address it at the policy level, because irrational economic actors are unfortunately really easy to take advantage of (for instance, they buy scrolls of Arise for 20 million gil!) and may need society's protection.* It's not that sentimentality/irrational decisions by informed actors has never occurred to anyone, or that it never gets discussed; it's just rather hard to derive useful economic principles from a class of people so prone to suggestion, nor would I personally be interested in promoting an economic system based on taking advantage of people ill-equipped to pursue their self-interest.Quote:
I agree very much with your statement about "one of the weaknesses of classical economics"
I'm happy to let you go on thinking a 95 Ukon is worth an extra 150 million gil on top of the 90 version if it means you keep buying Heavy Metal Plates out of my bazaar, though.
*this is why everybody says libertarians are monsters and the libertarians themselves don't get why -
06-06-2012, 12:22 AMMahoro
Or he could be irrational for holding onto the money if Arise/Meteor is an easier goal than any other goal. If he had two goals, 1) getting a Mythic and 2) getting Arise, does it not make more sense to immediately satisfy the second goal to realize its benefits and then concentrate on the first, which is a much longer-term goal? Shit's subjective.
And I hope you are talking about the metaphorical "you", because I never said I thought the 95 Ukon was worth it from my subjective point of view. I just defended people's right to deem it worthy for themselves!
Back on topic, Sparth, I love your suggestions, especially #s 1 and 3. -
08-08-2012, 03:23 PMSparthos
Necro but I'm curious if the devs have anything to say about Legion regarding tweaks or adjustments planned for the next update.
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08-09-2012, 02:11 AMwish12oz
Legion would be a lot more fun if you didnt have to perfect defense 90% of the mobs in the zone in order to win.
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08-09-2012, 02:19 AMCamiieDev Response: Well, people wanted SMN to be useful and this was the best we could do!Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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08-09-2012, 02:20 AMwish12ozI would of just quoted this and typed a "w" but then I wouldnt have 10 letters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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08-09-2012, 02:24 AMFrankReynoldsSad but true ; ;Quote:
Originally Posted by Camiie
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08-09-2012, 12:50 PMLuvbunny
This thread need more bumps, apparently the developers are bunkered in their hole again, swearing to ignore everyone's suggestion and plea. Legion is and still SUCKING badly - a total fail of a content, one that is very unpopular, same goes with all those neo - crapfest that they been shoving down our throats. They should look at how amazing abyssea reward system is - and go from there. At the very least Voidwatch is being tweaked, now we can use displacer for some of those annoying NMs. Let's face it, a lot of the times, we just want to end the fight in less than 6-8 mnts so we can check the gold box and repeat again and again. No one cares about challenge and doing each battle for 30 mnts.
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08-09-2012, 01:08 PMByrth
Now that we have figured out some of the tricks, this event isn't quite as bad as it initially seemed (in that we've become more successful with essentially the same strategies).
It still has some pretty fundamental flaws though:
1) It still lacks really useful equipment. When people get excited about this minor of an upgrade, you know something is wrong. Meteor is useless until you add an event that we can BLM burn and has a time limit. Arise is much more useful than I initially thought... in Legion.
2) It relies on Perfect Defense or stun-locking monsters to circumvent the broken damage systems. When the only way to avoid damage is to totally negate it, there is something wrong.
3) It relies on heavy buffs, which means Embrava.
4) Hall of Mul relies on either luck and stun locking or Wild Card landing, and for some reason contains more than half of the desirable drops.
5 re:2~4) This relies on 2-hour abilities but is a half hour event. Why should I have to farm Resheph pops because you guys can't design an event properly? Make our 2-hours reset when we exit. -
08-09-2012, 01:44 PMTheytak
What I'm honestly most disappointed about is that legion seemed to be the first event that showed promise for breaking the "nothing but zergs" nonsense we've had to deal with forever, but in the end, the best way to do it is still zerging. I'm so sick of zerging. Everything is zerging. Give us an event that can't be zerged, but is reasonably doable through other methods, good lord. It can't be that hard...
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08-09-2012, 02:18 PMLuvbunny
Zerg seems to be the way to do it, or kiting the add and what not. What other strategy? Skillchain + Magic Burst? Seems like most used strategy is always damage mitigation, stun the annoying tp moves, enfeeble (LOL), DOT. Looking back at CoP it is always the same deal, kill one mob at a time while a few others kite, zerg it fast and hard with all your two hours, tank it and whittle down the mob's hp and use SC+MB, have each tank and back up tank face each NMs, crowd control while BLMs start casting all the ga spells.
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08-09-2012, 10:10 PMMirabelleExactly all it would require is that the monster be immune to ohysical damage but take damage from SC, MB's. Require certain types of actions to give clues as to which skillchain/MB is favored. Have the mob change their SC weakness at 75%, 50% and 25%. Make it so the mob can be effectively tanked in the meantime. Then have a mob that is immune to WS and requires specific actions or abilities to break that immunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theytak
To me NM's don't necessarily have to be "high risk of deathga" hard to be entertaining. As long as they keep you on your toes and require shifting strategy.
As long as SE insists on putting mobs in there that can one shot everything right away, they've pushed the populace to a zerg strategy. The only other option is zombie DOT'ing the thing to death which has never been an expeditious way to do anything. -
08-09-2012, 11:40 PMlllen
Based on what I have read here and other places I haven't had the inclination to try Legion. Since it came out I have seen one shout in Jeuno for it and they shouted for hours and no one I know knows anyone who has done it, or is even willing to do it. We are not a bunch of new players, we have been around for years (I'm the baby, only playing 6 years), if you can't get the die hards in there something is wrong.
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08-09-2012, 11:47 PMMahoroI don't really mind the drops. Many of the useful ones are incrementally useful but that is par for the course for most SE events post-Abyssea, including VW, Neo-Limbus, and WoE back in the day. For better or for worse, we are in minor upgrade/sidegrade territory until Seekers of Adoulin, and Legion is no more egregious an offender here. Sure, it's got its share of minor upgrades like Fulad-Zerah (although we all know people pay multi-millions for minor upgrades and spend days/weeks seeking that perfect Tatter augment), but it's also got some best-in-slot stuff for certain jobs. And now that people have discovered almost 100% of the Honor augments, getting those means a lot more. Pretty much every melee in my LS wants a Corvine Feet abjuration and an Honor now that we know the augment is crit hit dmg +9-10%. I would never suggest people do Legion over pursuit of Neo-Nyzul gear, but it's the place to go when you've got EVERYTHING else and you are looking to do those final min/maxes of your character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrth
I agree with everything else on your list though, wholeheartedly. I guess for me, I have the most fun at this event than anything else I do in game now, and while I see the event's glaring flaws, I have been able to overlook them because of that. -
08-10-2012, 01:02 AMSparthosThere were once endurance fights in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
CoP Wyrms weren't a zerg.
Dark Ixion / Sandworm's Doomvoid BCNMs weren't zergs.
Ouryu Cometh wasn't a zerg.
KS99 at 75 weren't zergs.
Proto-Ultima/Omega weren't zergs.
Khimaira/Cerberus/Tyger weren't zergs.
There's a pretty big difference between the game during CoP-WOTG and post-WOTG where the former had some zerg battles but there were also standard endurance fights with your DD tanks, support line and mages. Nigh everything since Abysseas conclusion has been a zerg where TP moves incinerate your front-line, attacks ignore shadows, time limits constrain you to a zerg and balance has been thrown in the rubbish to be replaced by Fanatics Drinks and wanna-be Fanatics Drinks (Perfect Defense).
If you missed one Gates of Hades back at 75 Cerberus the odds are if you didn't panic you could recover and the same went for other endgame instances but at 99? One TP move going through effectively means game over, lie down and SE is making sure that you aren't recovering. -
08-10-2012, 02:03 AMZhronneWyrm BC was! And I guess you meant Hydra, not Tyger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparthos
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. What matters most to me is a keyword:
V A R I E T Y
I'm all fine with Zerging, I'm not so fine with it's not ONE of the strategies and ONE of the things we do, but the ONLY thing we do.
It gets boring.
But I could say the same about XP pts and many other things.
One single thing, back then we didn't have the powerful buffs we have today, buff jobs were more scarce as was players' jobs options, sometimes you just had to do what you could with the jobs you had available in your group.
Jobs had worse WSs, worse gear options, hard to get haste cap, etc etc
Also no Embrava and... well, we had Perfect Defense, don't remember exactely whe it was added but I seem to recall people underestimated it for a long time?
With the same possibilities and the same "powers" we have nowadays, people would have probably zerged a lot more stuff even at level 75
(we all remember what happened with Kclub and DRKs before the nerf, rite?)
I think it's... I dunno, the nature of players.
The first times you enjoy a hard, challenging and endurance fight.
After a while you don't enjoy it anymore and all you want is the loot that mob drop.
So if you can kill it faster and minimizing the risks, why not doing it? I think this is, overly simplified, what drives people into wanting to Zerg.
But over the last 2 years we zerged SO MUCH that, really, I think we all need a bit of variation now. -
08-10-2012, 02:24 AMsaevelThis wouldn't work. Being "immune" to physical damage means 0 damage melee hits and thus no TP to do those WS's which would have most of them do 0 damage and 0 SC damage. Would be better to have your BLM's kite and chain nuke. Mana burn it. Don't try to resurrect SC's, SE screwed them up so badly for implementation that any attempts to implement them would immediately lead to just zerging.Quote:
Exactly all it would require is that the monster be immune to ohysical damage but take damage from SC, MB's. Require certain types of actions to give clues as to which skillchain/MB is favored. Have the mob change their SC weakness at 75%, 50% and 25%. Make it so the mob can be effectively tanked in the meantime. Then have a mob that is immune to WS and requires specific actions or abilities to break that immunity.
Making endurance fights wouldn't be hard, first thing they would need to do is GTFO with tight time limits. Second is to nerf the sh!t out of every single 90+ NM's offensive power. That is the single biggest reason we zerg, the faster we kill it the less time it has to kill us. Killing something that dangerous slowly would just result in you wiping and dieing as it went around killing everyone.
"Hate" is broken in that damage generates way to much hate. "Tanks" tend to be defensive in nature yet with damage being the single greatest hate source for 300 to 500%, this renders all defensive class's utterly useless at tanking. This rotates around to having a fast fight where damage is turned to maximum (kill it before it kills you), with the tanks unable to tank the damage dealers now become the tank. To give them enough defensive power to not get destroyed we are forced to resort to Fanatics / Perfect Defense spam.
A real good HNM boss fight would be one that had 300,000 to 500,000 HP (or even a million) yet didn't have moves that would instantly ruin the run nor a stupidly tight time limit that you had to race against. That type of fight would turn into a long drawn out affair of whittling its HP down (assuming hate mechanics were fixed) while trying not to strain healers MP supply. -
08-10-2012, 03:45 AMLuvbunnyThat statement hit the nails in the coffin, why would anyone wants a long drawn up fight when you can brew/displacer it so that it become a few mnts fight. At the end of the day we all just want to peek at the possibility of loot and could not care less about artificial challenge etc... The first 5-10 times may be ok, after that it's just become a torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhronne
SE could also create NMs that has alternative damage weakness depending on the state of the mob, which can change from blunt, slashing, piercing depending on the elemental sign (which is random), and also weak to certain SC + MB, and can alternate between taking reduced physical damage or magical damage (ex: Melo melo, Turtle Kindred Seal), or it will be healed with physical in one mode, and magical in another mode. This way people cannot zerg this, and you need a variety of jobs with different weapons, and DOT become important again, so is Paladin as tank, and the group really need to listen and have strategy otherwise the mob will not die. Though as I recall, most people HATE this kind of mob!! HATE it since it takes so much co-ordination that PUG would just heal the NMs to oblivion.