Pupdate 10-28-2011

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

What are you asking for? In his post he translated the original comments with the original posters names? What else is there to include?

And yes it was with scanner equipped. Without scanner it will cast them once all other debuffs are exhausted but wont move them to the top with wind/fire maneuvers so its still nice.

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wait... does that mean they'll put silence and addle last on the list when the mob is a blm or something? /facepalm

No, havent tested it on mages yet, but on crabs/beetles its last unless you have scanner

sounds like we are more or less good for this to be implemented on live server, little tweaks can be done later

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

What are you asking for? In his post he translated the original comments with the original posters names? What else is there to include?

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He wanted to look at the untranslated versions of the posts. That's what the little double-arrowhead in a blue rectangle at the beginning of a quote is for, though: it links to the original post.

I'm not sure if it's sad on person X's part or sad on SE's part when person X doesn't trust SE's translation. :D

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...913#post221913

Worlds longest link, thanks to jp characters.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Yes it still tries to cure aura status, I don't think there is a way to code for it not to since the status is "poison" and not "Aura: Poison" the pet just sees poison and tries to cure it.

I would love for it to be different, but I think we might be stuck with that.

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If the automaton can see duration of debuffs (might need Damage Gauge), it could ignore those with a very short time time remaining.
Although with the new casting timers, it might not matter much. It'll still cast Poisona on that Aura: Poison, but it'll follow up with Cure VI shortly afterwards, right?

^slightly related, but referring to stona, puppet still does stona > cure? that is the only spell i feel should be prio'd over cure, since if you're waiting while being petrified, you're probably going to die regardless... actually, this brings up another question, since i'm not quite clear on previous explanations. are cures on a separate timer or a healing magic timer? (including cures/na's) it sounded like enhancing/elem/enfeebs were on their own timer for each category.

if cures are indeed on a separate timer than the other healing spells, that would certainly be interesting.


edit: re read OP, works as i thought.. wording confused me first time. disregard~

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Originally Posted by esoR

^slightly related, but referring to stona, puppet still does stona > cure? that is the only spell i feel should be prio'd over cure, since if you're waiting while being petrified, you're probably going to die regardless... actually, this brings up another question, since i'm not quite clear on previous explanations. are cures on a separate timer or a healing magic timer? (including cures/na's) it sounded like enhancing/elem/enfeebs were on their own timer for each category.

if cures are indeed on a separate timer than the other healing spells, that would certainly be interesting.


edit: re read OP, works as i thought.. wording confused me first time. disregard~

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Well the issue with stona is that if you are 2-4 hits from dieing, it doesn't matter if you are stone/poison/diseased/slowed etc. It should always cast cure 5~6. Then you have 10-12 hits before you die, and ample time to cure the status ailments.

Currently it will stona -> wait 10 sec -> cure 6 (if you have less than 3 maneuvers). Which is more than enough time for a mob to kill you.

if the mob hits hard enough, and you need utsusemi to be able to survive more than like 3 or 4 hits... i'd prefer stona. then, i could attempt to hold my own until cure was ready. less relevant, but you can't guard while petrified either.

thanks for the info. i'm usually /nin and save Role reversal for those situations, but everyone's different.

Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

Flame holder
We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)

Also of note, was the the next test server update should include the change in the healing priorities in regards to recovering hp, light maneuvers, and -na spells.

Previouslly it was 3 light in order to make cure > na. Previouslly they had mentioned it would be more than 1 (aka 2+ maneuvers).

I really think this should be reconsidered and be 1 + light maneuvers. I am not sure why camate didnt translate it as it was part of the previous post.



Flame holder
v1 Higher capacity cost - doesn't consume maneuvers
I dont think most people could justify using it at all if the capacity cost went up. Also would this be weaker than the current one?

v2 same capacity cost - consumes maneuvers
Personally if you have both as an option, v2 better be a larger affect per maneuver since you sacrifice more to use it.


Either option
Both are terrible in regards to fire maneuvers triggering the wrong WS.

Suggestion
With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

Suggestion
With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder

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This would be awesome, seconded.

Also, if Flame Holder + Inhibitor were up, the auto would only SC if it could use its highest damaging WS. Win/win if this happened.

It doesn't really bother me that fire maneuvers are consumed by the flame holder, what bothers me is that you can't use it effectively without making the automaton use an undesireable WS. The power/attributes of the attachment itself are okay (other than it doesn't seem to affect Cannibal Blade if I'm not mistaken). It's only the mechanics.

Dfoleys flameholder suggestion, me like. I firmly believe we need a way to force those weaponskills. I hate shooting off a bone crusher by accident.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

Flame holder
We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)

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Again, I'm going to propose that instead of adjusting flame holder in any way, you adjust how the automaton performs weapon skills.

As it stands, the automaton will perform weapon skills in an INCREDIBLY unintelligent manner, both with and without the inhibitor (the inhibitor changes how it does weapon skills, but it changes it to an equally unintelligent and undesirable method). Without the inhibitor, the automaton will randomly WS between 100 and 300 TP, with the likely hood of WS increasing with how much TP it has (I have only ever once had my puppet hold TP to 300%, but wow was I annoyed), typically this results in the puppet wasting 30~70 TP every WS, occasionally more when it decides to hold past 200%.

Additionally, because we have to use maneuvers to force specific WS, we're limited on our ability to use maneuvers for what they're intended for, enhancing our attachments. A perfect example of this is Valoredge and Cannibal Blade. I've played pup since the week of the ToAU release, and not once have I ever equipped valoredge with a dark attachment, since it has no mp and the only non-mp related dark attachment, smokescreen, is counter productive to valoredge's survival when using cannibal blade (lower acc means slower TP gain, meaning fewer cannibal blades to heal itself). Despite this, I pretty much constantly need a dark maneuver on my puppet if it's survivability is at all in question.

I can understand using maneuvers to determine spellcasting, but when bst, smn, and now even drg have the ability to choose their pet's ws (or at least WHEN they ws, in the case of charmed pets), the fact that pup is still using this bass-ackwards method of WSing is really aggravating x.x

I know it wouldn't be something quick to implement, but is giving us our own way to at least force a specific ws in the manner drg got with smiting breath, or ready (on a shorter recast, given how pup ws compare to jug pet ws) can't be so unreasonable/undoable that it won't ever happen.

I almost never equip flame holder for all the reasons everyone else has stated. The miniscule gains you get from using it don't outweigh the pain in the butt it is to get it to actually work with the WS you want.
If they aren't going to allow us to pick the auto's WS from a menu, I wish they'd at least change what maneuver prioritizes what WS. If you want say, Valoredge to get HP back you would want to use regen and Cannibal Blade. But since light maneuvers prioritize Bone Crusher, you have to use two dark maneuvers to get it to use Cannibal Blade, which as Theytak said, have zero use on Valoredge.

I'm thankful for all the AI tweaks that are going to implemented soon, but it still feels like this job should be call "Puppet Suggester" rather than "Puppetmaster"

I often find myself wondering who is the master, and who is the puppet

I may be alone on this, but to me flame holder seems like it would be one of the last attachments I'd worry about adjusting. I usually am able to slip it in on Valoredge and Sharpshot(due to only needing one fire slot) for a small WS boost and I like it that way. Auto WS are already decently strong and somehow I can't imagine them getting too much stronger without "adjusting" something to compensate. Not to mention the time that you are building triple fire you don't have as much haste, double attack, etc on the puppet.

Just doesn't feel like most of the time it would be worth the 20 extra seconds to build fire. Now if maneuver recast was shorter that would be a different story. That's what I'd rather push for.

Off topic slightly: I keep trying to get my puppet to cast buffs and have split timers on the non-test server and it is depressing me. This update needs to be implemented soon. Please? :(

Id be fine with an ability on a 10 minute timer that 'sets' your ws.

Aka:
Tactical Prowess
10 minute duration 10 minute reuse
Pick the ws from a menu and that is the only ws it will use for the next 10 minutes!

Then you no longer have to worry about ANY maneuvers for ws and can do maneuvers based on the desired affect on the pet, and not what ws might accidently fire.

Just a crackpot suggestion, I have 1000s more... but everyone is sick of it as is any ways.

I just want /pet "Armor Shatterer" <t> seems even simpler. I know it is possible since you can do those macros with bst jug TP moves. I hate sitting there saying, would you go poppo, go dammit, then it waits till mob is 2 percent and does a 3k ws. why thanks poppo you idiot. Only other option is to pull the puppet off and lose dmg also.

if they did make it where you could choose your automaton's WS, i would only be happy with that if the automaton would still WS the way it does now unless you hit the desired WS from a list first. sometimes, i'm too busy with other stuff to tell my puppet exactly what to do at the same time. maybe make it where to automaton will use a WS on it's own after it's TP is above 150 so you have ample time to select one from the list, but if you don't feel like spamming <pettp> or are just too busy to have to manually select WSs, you won't have to wait too long for your puppet to WS. honestly though, if they change automaton WS selection whatsoever, I would just want to be able to decide what maneuver triggers what WS, or select the priorities for which WS comes first with no maneuver up, or if theres more than 2 or 3 different WS-trigger-maneuvers up.

I mean, I can kind of understand why we don't have access to menu WS, given that our puppets possess the ability to WS spam on their own (as was the case before the burt nerf) given enough regain/haste/store TP, and given how powerful some of the WS are (Armor Shatterer, Armor Piercer, String Shredder, and Cannibal Blade (first three for damage, CB due to its no miss no hate moderate damage nature). If we suddenly found ourselves only able to let our puppets WS every 60 seconds like bsts and smns (I know it's less with gear/merits, but still), our damage would take a pretty massive hit.

That said, maneuver-forced ws is just way to wonky and hindering of a system to be useful.

I'm sure it has been mentioned in this thread already, but please (please please!):

Allow me to be able to deploy at a greater range. It's silly that I have to run up and then back to get my Auto to cast at max range. It puts me and my auto in needless danger, not to mention that it is cumbersome.

Don't cancel my buffs and cures if the enemy dies mid-cast. If they are cancelled, the timer should be available for immediate recast since the spell was never used to begin with.

As mentioned above, the Flame Holder's potency is already limited by the auto's WS selection being tied to active maneuvers. Thus, unless we were given more direct control over the WS of choice, it is not overpowered if you reduce the elemental capacity needed to equip.

Thanks for your consideration!

the issue with canceling spells is the puppet is deployed on a temporary target, and not on a static target. it's engage target is canceled so it goes directly into passive mode. if we had an ability to deploy on players, this issue would no longer exist, atleast for healing puppets. it would probably apply for nuking though.

I also want to add my 2 cents to the light maneuver / cure priority issue. Forcing us to use 2 light maneuvers just for decent automaton AI really limits the use of other attachments, since our hands are tied and we can no longer use a variety of maneuvers to maintain the automaton. All this does is just add to our frustration when we die because a maneuver dropped a second too soon and the automaton's AI went flying back to the dark ages.

Yea at the most it should be 1 Light Maneuver to put cure on the top of the list.

Ask and ye shall receive... devs commented in jp today that it was changed to 1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped.

DEA
light maneuver
cure 5
win


DEA
no maneuver
protect/shell/haste


Didn't get to test enfeeble priorities, but cure does take place over enhancing now with 1 light maneuver.


Also tested drum magazine with timers today:

20 sec no attachment
17/14/11/5 with attachment, pure unadulterated win.

During last week’s test server update, we implemented an adjustment to automatons so that curing is prioritized when you have one light maneuver.

Please check it out on the test server and let us know your feedback!

We love it, no other feedback needed. Now make it live please... Now... right now.... please....

Thank you SE. ^_^

Pretty satisfied, despite the Scanner needed to avoid the Silence on mobs with mp but not casting spells and similar situations, and also despite the fact some attachments could have used a 1 elemental unit reduction, but all in all really awesome update.

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!

Wow, this really made my day! Thank you so much for the adjustment!

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Originally Posted by xbobx

We love it, no other feedback needed. Now make it live please... Now... right now.... please....

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This. Dear god this.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Pretty satisfied, despite the Scanner needed to avoid the Silence on mobs with mp but not casting spells and similar situations, and also despite the fact some attachments could have used a 1 elemental unit reduction, but all in all really awesome update.

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!

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I agree, so long as they aren't added to Voidwatch, or Ob. Ob's already got plenty of crap, and the voidwatch drop system is absolute garbage, and will result in the people who actually get the attachments probably just dropping them because their pup is level 0.

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Originally Posted by Camate

During last week’s test server update, we implemented an adjustment to automatons so that curing is prioritized when you have one light maneuver.

Please check it out on the test server and let us know your feedback!

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Made my day!

Thank you!!! THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!! SE Devs!! My hard earned money... <<You can have this.>>

very nice, seems at least that feedback was heard.

Has someone tested this function? they did their part now lets test the work they put in!

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Originally Posted by brayen

very nice, seems at least that feedback was heard.

Has someone tested this function? they did their part now lets test the work they put in!

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Ask and ye shall receive... devs commented in jp today that it was changed to 1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped.

DEA
light maneuver
cure 5
win


DEA
no maneuver
protect/shell/haste


Didn't get to test enfeeble priorities, but cure does take place over enhancing now with 1 light maneuver.

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my post right before calmates

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!

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A million times this.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

my post right before calmates

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woops sorry usually i jump to dev posts too many threads to track em all ; ;