100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

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Originally Posted by Khajit

IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

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Show me the logic please, I'll show you its flaws.

This thread needs the whaaambulance.....

Please hold off before defending long zombie whittling tactics in the same thread griping that pet soloes take to long, I need time to make popcorn.

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IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

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Not even close to the same thing, if people are zombying the mob it can easily be taken by someone else and even with RR spam they can still easily lose. Hard to lose with a mob where your pet has -100% pdt and -50+ mdt, huge heals with pet food and a 4-5 mins respawn on the pet.

@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

If you did, I really have no sympathy. When my ls goes into abyssea with a plan and there's people already fighting the nm we planned on fighting, we go somewhere else. You wasted your own time waiting around for what you probably hoped would be a free nm if the bst died (and let's face it, you probably did think the bst was going to die). If you don't have a plan b or c or q, that's your own fault.

Sure, high pet pdt- may seem ridiculous, but the whole premise of abyssea seems to based on doing broken, ridiculous things. The most ridiculous thing about abyssea? The fact that there's 9 friggin zones filled with natural mobs and not one is charmable. Bst's natural ability is completely useless in 9 friggin zones. But i guess if even if we did have our natural ability in abyssea, you would steal the mob on a pet swap or complain in here if there was a party of bsts continually tossing pets at it.

Honestly, you don't even need DG to kill most things in abyssea if you're a bst. DG is the poor man's route. If you can continuously supply yourself with dippers, have 2 pet eva axes and eva atams, you can pull off a lot of the same stuff with mounted champion and pet food. The same dangers apply: DOT and casters. If you ran into a bst taking out an nm this way, would you be calling for a nerf too?

So much hate on bsts here. I believe it's horribly inefficient to solo nms without procs if you're actually wanting seals and I've sat through dncs, nins, and thfs do this. It sucks sitting on the sidelines waiting. I'm not one to call for a nerf against other jobs, but seriously, in zones where characters are practically godlike, if you take this away from bst and pup ( i guess, never seen the soling you're talking about but if its whm puppet and a pup meleeing how is this different than whm and mnk?), its only fair you give all these nms capped acc so evasion jobs can't solo them either. Let me clear, I don't want any job to be nerfed but if you're going to ban one job from the playground, you may as well ban everyone.

And why again ppl find that logical a BST get -100% PDT and not other job? Because you think other job would not like tell everyone f... .u i wan solo too? No other job able to do -100% PDT and right there is FAIL, so what the next logical plan, everyone level BST and get -100% PDT setup and hold every NM in the game.

Be serious, this is a major glitch that SE have to issue ASAP, my friend already finished his PDT -100% tonight, and he already holding NM just for fun (Because hey! he can now, so why not?) You know what he told me, AXE took him a big 3 day, head took him 1 day, so ya in 1 week max you can get your -100% PDT.

Some people here just can't face the fact that is broken, i don't care about the JOB, stop QQ about the job suppose to be like that because yet that another BS, there more job then BST that don't fit well in abyssea.

on side note, all my job are 90 and they all full merited, i have savior atma, mandau and masa. So you think a stupid 3 day long investment for a -100% PDT scare me up? ok ya... [they was all 75 PRE-Abyssea, sorry for flamer i am not one of those Abyssea-leecher that pretend to know everything in game]

And yes if i say that is because it frustrate me how a wannabe BST come in front of alliance and hold a NM for 60 min long careless about time wasting, and also make me rage more when i see people here argue how all this is 'suppose to be right'. And you all know this issue is just going to increase every day...

I saw many nin and dnc solo, i never said a word about it, and is simple why... They actually working hard to be able to do it, and is not such of 100% win + they do not take 1h to 1h30 to kill NM. I remember to see a nin/thf solo Benu, he was using temp item etc, i was amazed not shocked, also note he took 35 min to kill, again not 60~90 min long watching a stupid pet get hit by 0 all night.

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@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

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We did not need anything else, 6 member needed that Scorpion, and i can't do anything about that, of course i could just tell everyone, sorry let call it tonight, there a BST taking his sweet time to solo a NM for 1 stone, is that answer work for you?

There situation sometime like that where you can't do anything else...

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@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

If you did, I really have no sympathy. When my ls goes into abyssea with a plan and there's people already fighting the nm we planned on fighting, we go somewhere else. You wasted your own time waiting around for what you probably hoped would be a free nm if the bst died (and let's face it, you probably did think the bst was going to die). If you don't have a plan b or c or q, that's your own fault.

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Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

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exactly what i mean to say.

Evasion caps and mob TP moves can easily have higher innate ACC. That's a problem even Yuly would face, but THFs or NINs can't exactly pull 1000+ cures out of their butt for sustained durations and even DNC's option comes at a price. If they die, that's it. There's no running around until timer's ready or just popping a new jug and Snarling away your enmity. The concept of disposable pets has always been problematic in this manner, even as far back as Carby kiting. With no true penalty toward the master for a pet death, you eventually get scenarios like this popping up since they gain more freedom to screw around and find things that work. Of course, even if BSTs lost some EXP each time they let a pet die, it doesn't solve this particular issue. Allowing Charm in Abyssea would just allow anyone to go hog wild regardless of a mob's strengths if you can get it to the right camp, and we'd undoubtedly see the resurgence of QQ over how every other job that subs BST performs better than the main. A 50-60% cap is the simplest and fairest solution.

As for zombie tactics, that's a pretty easy fix. DoTs no longer do damage if double weak, progressive deaths after 2 add a growing delay to the reraise prompt (15/30/45s) and dying 5 times if weak instantly HPs the victim.

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Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

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If you search a zone and see 150+ people, there's a good chance most mobs are taken if you consider most groups are 2-6 people. Anyone who thinks you can just magically move on to a Plan B and have no hiccup is either trying too hard to defend this exploit or is a very lucky person. Nevermind the fact a Plan B does no good if your target mob is the sole source of something.


Anyway, part of this congestion issue should hopefully be diminished if the mentioned additional ??? pops means you could spawn multiple NMs.

Did your six people need a Soulscourge or a thunder belt? Because those are the only items that that hedjetjet drops that no other mob drops. It doesn't even drop a key item. Heck, Bennu drops a card (If you're lucky! I do know this pain) and Orthus can potentially drop more jewels. Wow, i just looked at ffxi wiki and scars zones drop them too!

The point is, there was other options than standing around watching someone fight a mob. There was plenty you could have done besides waiting for someone to die so you could gank his mob. Blame your leader for wasting your time and if you're the leader, well, read the wiki and get informed. Then you'll know, and knowings half the battle.

I get it, you hate bsts. but you know what? Other jobs can do a lot more fantastical things in abyssea besides slowly whittling down a mob. I guess when it benefits you, "exploits" are a-ok!

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

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I'm not trying to be a wad here, but unless they were specifically going for a soulscourge or thunderbelt, there's other mobs that drop the items they were going for. Showing up in a zone hoping that the influence is there for the scorp to even pop is really just poor planning in the first place. I can see an ls or group of friends saying "Hey, let's go out to abyssea for a lark and see if a free roaming nm is up instead of buying/building the popsets that we know will pop an nm we know will drop stuff we need" but I don't see a group of random strangers agreeing to that premise.

Then again, maybe I dunno. I usually don't do PUG. I have an ls and close friends I do abyssea with.

Seems to me, OP is changing their story to whatever they feel like as they go along.

You guy just love derail it, my post was clearly talking about 2 thing...

-100% PDT + holding NM.

I would hate as much PLD if it was the job that get -100% PDT, Sorry but stop get me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

You guy just love derail it, my post was clearly talking about 2 thing...

-100% PDT + holding NM.

I would hate as much PLD if it was the job that get -100% PDT, Sorry but stop get me wrong.

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I'm not derailing it. You told me what you thought was bs: pets pdt being 100%; and i told you what I thought was bs: your ls or friends or whatever the heck they were standing around for a mob to die instead of doing something productive. I further added that I thought it was bs that bsts can't use their natural ability to charm in abyssea but this is a discussion forum and discussion forums occasionally involve other people voicing their opinions.

This isn't even about bst or pdt. You ran into someone who was totally inconsiderate and that person could have been on any job but you decided to slander bsts as altogether plain-bad people that you'll never invite to a party. The reason you're getting so many "derails" is that bsts have a pretty tight knit identity around the job and you've stirred up a hornet's nest.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

And why again ppl find that logical a BST get -100% PDT and not other job? Because you think other job would not like tell everyone f... .u i wan solo too? No other job able to do -100% PDT and right there is FAIL, so what the next logical plan, everyone level BST and get -100% PDT setup and hold every NM in the game.

Be serious, this is a major glitch that SE have to issue ASAP, my friend already finished his PDT -100% tonight, and he already holding NM just for fun (Because hey! he can now, so why not?) You know what he told me, AXE took him a big 3 day, head took him 1 day, so ya in 1 week max you can get your -100% PDT.

Some people here just can't face the fact that is broken, i don't care about the JOB, stop QQ about the job suppose to be like that because yet that another BS, there more job then BST that don't fit well in abyssea.

on side note, all my job are 90 and they all full merited, i have savior atma, mandau and masa. So you think a stupid 3 day long investment for a -100% PDT scare me up? ok ya... [they was all 75 PRE-Abyssea, sorry for flamer i am not one of those Abyssea-leecher that pretend to know everything in game]

And yes if i say that is because it frustrate me how a wannabe BST come in front of alliance and hold a NM for 60 min long careless about time wasting, and also make me rage more when i see people here argue how all this is 'suppose to be right'. And you all know this issue is just going to increase every day...

I saw many nin and dnc solo, i never said a word about it, and is simple why... They actually working hard to be able to do it, and is not such of 100% win + they do not take 1h to 1h30 to kill NM. I remember to see a nin/thf solo Benu, he was using temp item etc, i was amazed not shocked, also note he took 35 min to kill, again not 60~90 min long watching a stupid pet get hit by 0 all night.



We did not need anything else, 6 member needed that Scorpion, and i can't do anything about that, of course i could just tell everyone, sorry let call it tonight, there a BST taking his sweet time to solo a NM for 1 stone, is that answer work for you?

There situation sometime like that where you can't do anything else...

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So you want them to nerf BST pet PDT, which btw is just about impossible to do without nerfing atmas that benefit every other job with it's -dt and gear that was fairly earned, because you came across one person on BST? You know how many BST I've come across while in Abyssea NM hunting that blocked me? Zero. It has never happened. Right. Let's nerf BST because they can use their pet pdt and mdt abilities to their full advantage, not because they are and flooding Abyssea, blocking the rest of the FFXI population. Makes all the sense in the world to me. I stand corrected.

The only person QQing in this thread is you because your feelings were hurt once in one years time by a mean BST who dared to put his new found pdt 100% to use and possibly PUP. I assume that statement is accurate because you haven't made the post before now. Yeah. Nerf BST. Nerf PUP too they're pets are too strong too. Let's nerf refresh atmas to boot. They make Abyssea too easy as people never /heal anymore for MP. It makes melee + WHM possible and you see them everywhere holding up groups with their dumb duos. Don't forget to nerf MNK atmas. Nerf DNC, THF, and NIN to boot. Let's just nerf everything so no one can do anything solo-trio anymore. Groups now count as 4+ for azure proc purposes and onward. And if your mini group dares get in the way of an alliance you need to move aside and let them take care of business, or else. No more blocking larger groups. It's the law.

If BST gets the nerf bat then there's a number of other things that should get the nerf bat too if the nerfs are solely meant to put a stop to slowing down the progress of another person. It's not fair to cry nerf on one job all the while you are enjoying the benefits of buffs intended for your job that you would absolutely cry foul over if it were nerfed. Refresh, crit dmg, crit hit rates, all the bells and whistles that permit all the solo and duo that goes down in Abyssea on even the hardest of monsters. SE has accepted that BST and probably PUP is pretty much stuck as solo jobs and they have made an effort to treat them as such with pdt and mdt set ups for pets.(nevermind that if BST could charm in Abyssea that they'd basically be just as invincible as they are right now except people could steal NM from them, and maybe that's why you can't charm in there to begin with and was intended to stop theft which BST have complained about since forever, and call beast got the boosts it did)

Now, maybe it's not fair for a BST to basically be invincible but really, come on. Just because you take damage doesn't make you any less invincible. I can duo Catu mobs... on my WAR, with a WHM. Yeah. Takes two characters but so what. I'm still invincible 99% of the time as war + whm, cheap crap aside. So I have no problem whatsoever with a BST being 100% invincible. Good deal for BST, but I would never bother in a million years to take a hour to kill anything. That's probably why BSTs typically choose more friendly group jobs to do their Abyssea business. They have to be because they darn sure aren't flooding Abyssea holding everyone up on their BST. They like high drop rates, too.

In short, just please suck it up. You have to learn to take the bad with the good. If you were truly bothered by an invincible BST then I might see your point but it's very clear that you are bothered by being held up for a hour and are 100% okay with SE completely destroying BST only saving grace in Abyssea, over a handful of incidents IF that many. Sounds pretty selfish to me. I wonder what your friend thinks of that after going through the trouble of 100% PDT for their pet.

You are asking for balance in a zone that is anything but balanced. This was a lost cause before you clicked on the post box.

2c:

I feel that having 100% PDT is broken as no-job should have complete immunity from enemy attacks. SMN had it for a while in abyssea and it got nerfed. Why should this be any different? is it because there is a little bit of gear involved?

If it got nerfed down to normal standards, the only thing that would change is Beastmasters would have to pair (or treble) up to fight the NM's. Hey presto, suddenly the mob dies twice (three times) as quickly.

~Writing this as I run past a pair of summoners in vunkerl duoing Ironclad with leviathan; Props to them

they can just make the mobs inside abyssea charmable and then beasts can just charm all the xp mobs and throw them at the nm for 2 hours instead of 1 maybe this make you happier ?
you forget beasts do not get all the benefits and tools they do outside so a little help never hurt them
and i don't have no 100PDT set up or even close but crying because u have to wait for a mob lol you never been c*ck blocked by a ls farming an NM yet have you

Again you got me wrong, idc if is PLD, SMN, PUP or BST with -100% PDT, if is so right then allow all other job to be able do same. And if you more serious then NERF IT as they did for all job, end of story. Stop bring how i hate BST and so on, specially when i do have multiple BST in my LS (And yes i am one of these too..) and that never been a problem.

For the c**k block comment, i am sorry but SE already make all they can to avoid this to happen, reduce NM pop to 1 min but allow a BST solo 60~90 min long, just go figure, and hey i say BST, same would apply if PLD could get -100% PDT, so yes please stop derailing it.

Side note: my friend had -80% PDT and he was doing perfect, of course he had to actually work to success NM kill. Stop arguing how a BST absolute need -100% PDT that just plain BS, if your BST stink that much with -80% PDT then it might be a good choice to try another job.

Seriously don't even say how you need be a skilled player to kick Snarl on hate reset, and eat popcorn while your PET get 0 dmg, oh and call another PET because he expired since you take too long to kill.

Idk if its been pointed out and i personally don't care to read 13+ pages of rambling, but bst is the only one to be able to get 100% -pdt. My pup was at 65% and was doing as good if not maybe better then some bsts, nice little ws called cannibal blade makes up for it, although like most all pups lil upset that WE got nerfed and nobody else did... thanks SE. Side note i believe I was told smn can only get 85% -pdt but hey their pets are a lil more disposable then the other two before mentioned jobs. I do agree w/ previously mentioned statement if gonna nerf one job because it can solo NM's that wipe alliances... why didn't you nerf the other 19 jobs?

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Oh ya because taking 0 DMG from 60,000 needle is 'working as intended'. Ya right, as it been said in early post, even Ochain that is imo super broken too, you still take DMG bc #1 is not 100% block rate and #2 is not 100% dmg reduction.

If you can't find how is not right, i am sorry but i can't help you there.

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Wait, so you want everyone to suck as much as you then? If you can't do stuff a BST or SMN can, they must be nerfed to the point of being equal level of killing ability as you?

Sounds like somebody is BST envy here.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Wait, so you want everyone to suck as much as you then? If you can't do stuff a BST or SMN can, they must be nerfed to the point of being equal level of killing ability as you?

Sounds like somebody is BST envy here.

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Again you got me wrong, when we use BST we do it differently, we don't use BST to c%%k block ppl in abyssea for 60~90 min long. But yes we do use BST to tank NM and trigger/kill in 5~10 min that been said in previous post but i guess you probably too busy to read only what you wan and post this again me.

Stop feel b##t hurt and see the problem in face, -100% PDT, fair it is? Then it is fair for all other 19 job, is not fair? then nerf it as DEV did for other 19job. How this is so hard to understand? As i said if BST absolutly need -100% PDT to win again a NM there a major problem, and should maybe look for another job or play world of warcrap, but hey that just my opinion at this point, and sorry if i hurt your feeling with this comment.

Again you think i even going to bother spend the 'Oh WOW, 3 day investment' to get the -100% PDT and feel special to c@#k block everyone? I have more sense then that, of course SE will end to nerf it, if they don't then just more people will solo NM for 60~90min pissing off everyone.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Seriously don't even say how you need be a skilled player to kick Snarl on hate reset, and eat popcorn while your PET get 0 dmg, oh and call another PET because he expired since you take too long to kill.

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Do we know that pets get 100% PDT reduction or are you just assuming they do since they can possibly get it down that low?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Do we know that pets get 100% PDT reduction or are you just assuming they do since they can possibly get it down that low?

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it is -100% PDT, have 60 minute log to prove it... 0 dmg spam for 60 min long on hell scissors, death scissors, Crit hit for 0, normal hit for 0.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Again you got me wrong, when we use BST we do it differently, we don't use BST to c%%k block ppl in abyssea for 60~90 min long. But yes we do use BST to tank NM and trigger/kill in 5~10 min that been said in previous post but i guess you probably too busy to read only what you wan and post this again me.

Stop feel b##t hurt and see the problem in face, -100% PDT, fair it is? Then it is fair for all other 19 job, is not fair? then nerf it as DEV did for other 19job. How this is so hard to understand? As i said if BST absolutly need -100% PDT to win again a NM there a major problem, and should maybe look for another job or play world of warcrap, but hey that just my opinion at this point, and sorry if i hurt your feeling with this comment.

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But having -87.5% damage taken from one atma alone is fair, right? Without any gear to reduce it any further? Having a second atma that gives +20 regen to the pet would do the same thing as doing -100% PDT taken. So, I can do the "same" thing to you as I do soloing my mobs.

Except, I'm SMN, not BST. You are basically accusing me of doing the same thing BSTs do. Except, I don't hold NMs, and I doubt the BSTs do either. If any BST with 90% DT reduction in gear/atmas are having trouble with NMs with one pet and Reward, then that is just sad. Yeah it will take a while to kill the NMs, but you know what, that is what we do. Stop telling everyone that you don't like the fact that 3 jobs can do something by themselves that you can't do by yourself, and you want SE to nerf those 3 jobs down to your level so they would become useless to do anything by themselves.

Because that is just selfish, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

it is -100% PDT, have 60 minute log to prove it... 0 dmg spam for 60 min long on hell scissors, death scissors, Crit hit for 0, normal hit for 0.

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post a link to it.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

But having -87.5% damage taken from one atma alone is fair, right? Without any gear to reduce it any further? Having a second atma that gives +20 regen to the pet would do the same thing as doing -100% PDT taken. So, I can do the "same" thing to you as I do soloing my mobs.

Except, I'm SMN, not BST. You are basically accusing me of doing the same thing BSTs do. Except, I don't hold NMs, and I doubt the BSTs do either. If any BST with 90% DT reduction in gear/atmas are having trouble with NMs with one pet and Reward, then that is just sad. Yeah it will take a while to kill the NMs, but you know what, that is what we do. Stop telling everyone that you don't like the fact that 3 jobs can do something by themselves that you can't do by yourself, and you want SE to nerf those 3 jobs down to your level so they would become useless to do anything by themselves.

Because that is just selfish, if you ask me.

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they can limit they PDT to 85% idc if they get Regen atma, savior atma and they still able to do it, but ffs not -100% PDT, there some NM in game like that cactus that can do up to 60,000 dmg, you think is fair a PET take 0/60,000 dmg? Broken is broken. Your SMN don't ahve anymore -100% PDT, are you still able play the job and kill NM? I am sure the answer is yes, then there no real argument to not nerf BST job.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

they can limit they PDT to 85% idc if they get Regen atma, savior atma and they still able to do it, but ffs not -100% PDT, there some NM in game like that cactus that can do up to 60,000 dmg, you think is fair a PET take 0/60,000 dmg? Broken is broken. Your SMN don't ahve anymore -100% PDT, are you still able play the job and kill NM? I am sure the answer is yes,

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Are you sure that if that NM does 60k needles (which NM are you talking about anyway?) the pet will still take 0 damage? Have you seen that, or are you just assuming that?

As for the SMN comment, I basically HAVE 100% damage reduction. I have killed many NMs without the use of any healing move or item towards my avatar. And after the kill, my avatar still has 99~100% HP. You think thats fair, but BST having the same thing is unfair? If you "request" SE to nerf the pet PDT down to -87.5% like SMNs, guess what. BSTs will have to change their RR atma to Mounted Champion. Then it will take longer to kill anything. Really good solution if you ask me.

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then there no real argument to not nerf BST job.

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If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Are you sure that if that NM does 60k needles (which NM are you talking about anyway?) the pet will still take 0 damage? Have you seen that, or are you just assuming that?

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They take 0 damage.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

As for the SMN comment, I basically HAVE 100% damage reduction. I have killed many NMs without the use of any healing move or item towards my avatar. And after the kill, my avatar still has 99~100% HP. You think thats fair, but BST having the same thing is unfair? If you "request" SE to nerf the pet PDT down to -87.5% like SMNs, guess what. BSTs will have to change their RR atma to Mounted Champion. Then it will take longer to kill anything. Really good solution if you ask me.

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

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Cockblocking is annoying, but there is a huge difference in principle between taking 0 damage and taking 12.5% damage with regen atmas.

Red mage casting Phalanx and tanking 500 mandies for 1-2 damage a hit? Totally fine.

Beastmaster taking 0 damage from 60,000 Needles? Problem.

I don't envy Bsts. I don't pity them either. As Cyr demonstrated earlier, a fair amount of "Bst hate" is caused by the Bst themselves. However, there is most definitely a difference between taking reduced damage and taking zero damage. The latter is most likely an oversight.

inb4 Beastmasters spam every job subforum and General with a 10 paragraph letter to the producers about how nerfing 100%PDT has killed the job and nobody replies to it outside the Bst forum (sup PUP).

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Originally Posted by Korpg

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

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Because the mass isn't always the brightest. Also, "arguing" implies that people present arguments, which no one really does. Most people just flame about how he should just leave the BST in question be and do something else meanwhile, which isn't always an option (and is no argument against it). Others said stuff like "We need it because we suck otherwise" which is neither true, nor an argument for it if it was. And that was the only thing I heard people say against it.

Being physically invincible over such a long period is poor design imo. Explain how it makes sense to have an absolutely invincible pet? How is that, in any way, logical? I honestly can't imagine it. When someone gets hit, they're supposed to take damage. They should be able to reduce that damage, that's what Defense and PDT is for. But be immune to it? That's a bit of a stretch. Just look at how many mobs and even mob families completely lack magical damage attacks. All of those (including high tier NMs) become easily soloable. NMs, that, for that matter, shouldn't even be easily killable. I just fail to see the sense in that. Obviously SE does, because they gimped SMN but not BST and PUP.

And yes, it is 100%. Death Scissors deal upwards of 2k damage. Assuming x/1024 distribution (which, to my knowledge, is the finest grade distinction in all of FFXI's calculations), even -1023/1024 PDT would mean Death Scissors would deal at least 1 point of damage, but I've seen it hit Nazuna for 0 more than once. Also, what does it matter? 99% would still be implausible.

Holding mobs is a whole other issue, the fact that this kind of damage reduction alone is possible is wrong imo. I'm a SMN too, and I'm still glad SE nerved them for that. Why they didn't think it should apply for other pets too, though, is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

Not even close to the same thing, if people are zombying the mob it can easily be taken by someone else and even with RR spam they can still easily lose. Hard to lose with a mob where your pet has -100% pdt and -50+ mdt, huge heals with pet food and a 4-5 mins respawn on the pet.

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You sound like a person that's never seen people zombie shit nonstop. Kiting isn't exactly hard.

lolz
I can't help but laugh even though this topic is near and dear to me :P
I'm easily one of the earliest 100% -pdt bsts out there. I'll go further, I'm responsible for telling alot of other bsts about all the stuff they can solo and how to do it and how to get 100% -pdt alot of ways. I got ALOT of stuff in abyssea using pet tanks. I dare to say my avid posting helped share this w/ many many players.

Send your aggro... I'll let my pet tank you while I sit back and laugh!

@Ilax
This is probably the only response I'll give you. You are targeting 1 job begging for a nerf SOLELY because you didn't get the NM you wanted when you wanted it. You can encounter the same problem if it were an LS monopolizing an NM.
Are you kidding? Rani w/out a brew. It take a long time no matter what your setup. the NM fight taking too long is not because it was a bst, I'll bet you stayed there the whole time because you were trying to steal the NM>


I really wish GreatGuardian and Cyrana would tone it down a bit. You both have contributed very valuable thoughts and perspectives to the conversation, but I think you are both going overboard and accusing the other of falsehoods.
Please remember not to paint the brush too broadly. Player behavior =/= Job

I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something. We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

The problem is NOT bst 100% PET pdt. Its congestion and competition for NM's.

I'm pretty sure I posted the first Hedjedjet Solo. I told the bst we could solo it. My next statement is "but its not worth the time" at the very least get a smn to duo w/ you and it will take maybe 30 min. Also, Hedj has as NASTY poison aura.
If you think it takes NO skill to solo these NM's on bst w/ a 100% pdt set, you just show your ignorance. Soloing is often not very profitable for abyssea. You wan weakness proc's to be profitable in abyssea. This doesn't change when you are a bst.

IF you think it is broken, go try it. There are experienced bst in this thread who know all the limitations. There are experienced players in this thread who have just never seen this and are surprised by it. And There are haters (Ilax) who use their selfishness to fuel aggression to other players and trying to get some revenge w/ this thread, hoping SE will slam the nerf on another group of players.

The pet having 100% pdt does not make it, or you as a BST invincible. I'm surprised no one has suggested recruiting us bsts as pullers for alliances. We can pop/pull/hold an NM ready for the alliance to destroy VERY quickly. We can pull mass groups for Cleaving or AoE nuking.

Making this an attack on bst is a way to be hateful to other players instead of addressing the real issue.

IF you HONESTLY think this is a greater game breaker than any other imbalances in abyssea (WHM + MNK DUO POWER), I would honestly interested in hearing why. Keep in mind, the main doesn't get 100% pdt-. We are just like every other player in that regard. We get hit, we die.

Magic Damage
DoT spells
AoE
Hate resets

this is the short list off the top of my head that mitigates the advantage bst can have w/ a 100% pdt set. (and it takes a good amount of work to get this going)

Did you also scream to nerf the RDM/nin tanking a year or so ago?

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.

Edit: For the record, I really don't care what Beastmasters do. I don't care if they just keep solo'ing the same things with 87.5% PDT. But it's highly likely that this was a mistake/oversight and will be corrected. Being immune to all physical damage is simply silly.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.

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It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it.. maybe.. I don't know I never tried soloing it.. might run out of time... I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

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I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something.

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So is for ninja when they have to use toolz, and all other job for food, medic(echo drop), and what about SMN? That argument is just plain wrong.

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We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

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idc if they take 2h long to kill, they will time out before able to do it, how about that? And if they still success then great work, nothing i can complain there, sux that gonna take 1h30 but at least is not with a lame abuse of -100% PDT.

You think is only because i am a job hater? Not at all, just find that stupid wasting so much time (for the bst/pup itself) + make everyone else waste time for a glitch that should not be present from base.

So if you really think is fair as i said it before then SE should unlock all other 19 job, and everyone can c##k block everyone, and we can spend 18h in abyssea/day waiting every solo'ing.

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Originally Posted by Xilk

It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it. I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

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Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.

If the pet PDT limit is higher than the player character PDT limit, it is probably either a glitch or an oversight.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.

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Wow, really? So you want a game with no challenge at all, do you?

You're the sort of person World of Warcraft exists for. <.<;

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.

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Now you are changing your tune, you said all damage before, now just all physical damage. you really have to see how little physical damage is the challenge for nm's the whm mnk duo shows this.

Its really not even close to what was happening w/ summoners.

First, avatars got 100% -pdt at 100% health. They were not receiving the detrimental effects of the atma.
Second, Avatars used 1x atma for this, the rest could be dedicated to damage.
Third, Avatars have the elemental resistance as well. When bst make a 100% pdt pet, its very hard to kill something. you have a good tank, but you really need to get in there and melee to kill it. you are vulnerable to AoE. hate reset etc.

I don't buy it that you don't care about the application. You've argued too long in this thread for that to be true anymore. Part of bst pet pdt seems to offend you. I don't understand why.
The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

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The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

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Only flood of tears i see is when everyone face day long BST solo'ing NM for 60~90 min bc they can exploit -100% PDT. As i say idc if is BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, NIN, name all job, is plain stupid and broken to take 0 dmg.