If you have done the work to make a Mythic in the first place you have earned that power either way, at that point making an Ukon to 99 just for the WS would be a stupid but simple requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smush
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05-12-2013, 05:20 PMDemon6324236
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05-12-2013, 07:00 PMByrth
Making a 99 Ukon wouldn't be trivial (about 1/3 as hard as a Mythic?) but making a 99 WoE would be a walk in the park. AFK/kill some lotto NMs and then collect like 3mil of drops? Okay...
Making a WoE weapon (now that the drops are buyable) is much easier than making a 90 Ukon. It would probably take me a week of casually checking bazaars while I do other things to collect all the items I need for a 99 WoE Ukon. Apart from how long it would take of actually playing to get the drops to take Ukon to 90 (or even 85), you can convert the drops themselves into gil (people still pay like 200k each) and realize that it's a much more substantial advantage than making a WoE weapon. That's why I'd recommend unlocking the WS for anyone with a 90-99 Ukon. -
05-12-2013, 07:14 PMIlpalazzo
FYI to smush if you don't already have these weapons done your probably not going to get them done period now. From what I saw yesterday of checking dyna and looking around in bazaars no one is doing it. VW is simply dead basically no plates or dross etc. being sold at all and no shouts as well not a healthy sign of older content and lolmythic we're not even going to bring that craziness up.
I mean everyone is just doing
1. delve
2. other things in SoA since the weps more or less outclass everything right now.
I'm currently trying to figure out what to do with myself in the game (since I have to be more casual nowadays) right now since they more or less killed all events off except delve and anything SoA related this is a huge problem that needs fixing as stated with my first post. -
05-12-2013, 08:08 PMSmushThat is true as of right now, but i think if the weapons come back strong then dyna will come back and VW for plates and such but no way to be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilpalazzo
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05-13-2013, 12:03 AMKajikuroYour first and second sentences are a contradiction of themselves, and the fact you are implying that the same thing, at different stages in its production, is finished definitively proves that you don't grasp the words meaning. By stating that there is a "+1" version of something means exactly that it is NOT finished, regardless of weather or not its holds any tangible value it is still not finished. Therefor it cannot be implied that it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
And just to clarify, I am not saying that i believe the weapons should have to be afterglow to receive the enhancement. No a this point i'm simply saying that those who feign completion in an attempt of self aggrandizement are still not finished, even though they may bolster themselves as such.
And to anyone that has a 99 RME that isn't afterglow, i mean no offence. Congratulations! I am plainly attempting to reprimand those who have wrongly enthroned themselves with an achievement they haven't accomplished. -
05-13-2013, 12:10 AMRaksha
My El camino is a finished product.
My El Camino that i've added spoilers and spinning rims and a turbo charger to is also a finished product. -
05-13-2013, 12:51 AMKajikuroYou're using a situation with multiple variations of completion based on personal preference. This is not that situation, this situation is clearly defined, it has a beginning(the vary beginning of the process of starting any RME) and an end (99 Afterglow of that weapon) where you can only be finished to the actual extent after completing these trials in sequence to a final conclusion that has no continuations, the finish product by under these conditions is afterglow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
What you're suggesting would be true however if they gave an option that once finished with afterglow you could pick one of three trials, each one making it so that after weapon skilling your character danced around in circles on the screen for 30 second shooting bubbles from its ears. Accept one of the trials would play Metallica's "One" in the background, the second trial would play Justin Beibers "Baby" and the last would play Garth Brook's "Something country idk ....shotgun... big truck.... blah" now if those were the circumstances then so long as there was not a trial proceeding them they would be finished
if each of your el camino's were to be one of those last trials (equal in value yet different in personal preference) then yes your el cartruckthing is finished -
05-13-2013, 01:22 AMRakshaYeah afterglow fits this description also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
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05-13-2013, 01:46 AMKajikuro1. EwQuote:
Originally Posted by Raksha
2. No it doesn't -
05-13-2013, 01:52 AMIlpalazzo
TBH it's so hard to say whether or not these events will ever be done again by the more hardcore crowd since most of the gil to be made now is made with SoA upgrade items and they are already done with what they want to do they have their weapon or weapons in some cases of choice. I also have the feeling the upgrades for the new trial extension for R/M/E will be in SoA to keep them doing that content.
Casuals are screwed regardless until more of the AH-able weapons (Razorfury etc.) come into play at a reasonable price. So it's basically back to square one in that quite a bit of older content needs adjusting for them specifically to help them along with their R/M/E of choice if they still wish to pursue them. I don't envy the devs right now with this mistake to say the least. -
05-13-2013, 02:43 AMxiozenOk... let's start off by saying: "...regardless of...WHether..." not "weather"... Next, "its"... should be "it holds any..."... and finally, "Therefor"...should be "Therefore,"... I mean if I'm going to take you seriously, please proofread your replies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
No, at this point you're just trolling because your ego is too big admit when you're wrong. /facepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
Here we go again... "i mean no offence..." should be "offense"... I believe you mentioned the dictionary in one of your earlier posts...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
Enough trolling... please... we're having a serious discussion here. Next! -
05-13-2013, 06:40 AMAlerithSo....a Bronze Sword +1 is finished product....but a normal Bronze Sword is not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
That is, in its entirety, incorrect. -
05-13-2013, 07:50 AMZohno
a whole page to discuss if a 99 w/o afterglow is finished?
it's like asking if the stripes make my car run faster… -
05-13-2013, 10:28 AMLongshot
In my opinion, daggers need a significant boost. The best dagger available in the game is still 37 base damage less than a bullet you can buy on the AH.
This is especially true for THF. Steal is 100% useless now since there are no items that are able to be stolen in Adoulin(that I have found at least). Treasure Hunter is useless in rieves and inside a Fracture as those items have a 100% drop rate. These abilities and traits can no longer be used as excuses to keep us underpowered.
Please consider boosting R/M/E dagger damage and making it so that when 1-handed weapons are off-handed those stats are active. -
05-13-2013, 01:12 PMKajikuroThis really isnt complicated, if there are 10 trials and you do 9 you are not finished with the trialsQuote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
If you need a metaphor here. Say there is a 4776 question quiz, however you figure out that you can finish the first 1776 questions and still pass. You may have completed the 1776 first questions and you may have pass the test, but you STILL HAVE NOT COMPLETED THE TEST.
If you are told to count to 10 and you count to 9 YOU DIDNT COUNT TO 10 SO YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED COUNTING TO 10 UNTILL YOU SAY 10 -
05-13-2013, 01:37 PMKajikuroThe first part, you tried to use missed key strokes to insult my intelligence. Good try, points for being cliche but im sorry you will have to try harder than that to get any real merit in a debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by xiozen
Lets skip to the third part, there is nothing wrong with the way i spell offence BECAUSE THEY ARE INTERCHANGEABLE!
im serious, like for real, i hope you feel stupid for actually being wrong, because your comments on my finger slips didnt bother me.
Now for the second part, you say im trolling you? Nooooooooooooooooo i wouldnt do that....... oh wait........ BUT it has more to do with the fact that you keep replying to me than my ego bro ;)
When you have a suggestion that will help the game and not condemn it, then you're allowed to talk and i wont troll you -
05-13-2013, 02:45 PMDemon6324236I fail to see this game condemning suggestion you refer to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
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05-13-2013, 03:14 PMGippoDid you stop to consider the delay of the gun thats being fired, vs the delay of your daggers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot
Imagine if a rng or cor could shoot as fast as you dual wield.
Get out. -
05-13-2013, 08:10 PMxiozenWell if you stop posting, I'll stop replying... I would rather not have the Devs be sidetracked by... well, a troll... just sayin'. They have more important things to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
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05-14-2013, 12:49 AMKarbuncle
Daggers are getting a lot better in my eyes. I mean, i went and checked the DPS of the new Dagger and the DPS of the other R/EX Weapons and it was among the top of them... Which is what I like to see, the idea of a dagger is low DMG but superior DPS, if you have low DMG and second place DPS, then the weapon is just a failed choice...
I'm all for Daggers being boosted but, I think where they are now (2nd, maybe 3rd in overall DPS value) is a good spot. (By overall DPS i don't mean parses/etc, I mean the actual DPS Value of said weapon) -
05-14-2013, 02:49 AMLongshotYeah the DPS is nice, but considering THF is attack-starved to begin with and has the same base STR as WHM you aren't going to put out anywhere near the numbers you think you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
As for RNG delay, a 99 relic RNG with that bullet gets 100tp in what, 5 or 6 shots with a weapon with a base dmg of 221. Meanwhile I get to swing about 20 times with a 55 dmg weapon and then do an attack-starved, AGI modded ws.
They used to be able to hold Steal and Treasure Hunter over our heads and say that we don't need damage because we have those but they obsoleted that ability and trait. I'm not asking to be a top DD, I'm just asking them to close the gap a little bit between dual-wielders and 2-handers. -
05-14-2013, 03:00 AMAlerithAh! Now we're getting somewhere with you! A little glimmer of intelligence begins to shine forth. This is true. If you do 9/10 trials, you are not finished with the trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
But that does not make the reward from trial 9 an incomplete reward.
Opinion. Having all 4776 answers bubbled in may constitute completion to you, but completing the test to me simply means answering what you choose to answer and handing it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
By your definition, if a trial asked for 100 of an item, but you can finish it by turning in 50, is the trial not complete because you decided not to turn in those 50 items that weren't really required?
Also, let's look at something here:
com·plete
/kəmˈplēt/
Adjective
Having all the necessary or appropriate parts.
Verb
Finish making or doing.
When I finish trial 99, I have finished making a 99 weapon. It has all the necessary and appropriate parts. Therefore, a 99 weapon is a finished product as well. In fact, The level 75(Relic/Mythic) 85, 90 and 95 (RME) weapons are also finished products. They deal damage, they have stat boosts and they have the weaponskill specific to the weapon.
Now, I'm not saying 75-95 RME should get the stat boost. I agree that the weapon must be at least 99, only because no 75-95 weapon should be on par with any other 99 weapon. But the 99 without afterglow is a completed and finished weapon, the afterflow being merely a tac'd on bonus.
It's akin to buying a car. It's a finished product and performs its role just fine. If you choose to add turbochargers, paint jobs, spinning rims, a new suspension kit and fuzzy dice in the mirror, those are good upgrades, but does not detract from the fact that the stock vehicle is indeed finished. -
05-14-2013, 12:54 PMKajikuroBy your definition and your car metaphor that feeds my original point, 85 weapons are completed, they perform all the functions of the "fully working car" but doesn't have the turbo charger so on and so forth, so by your very example and request 85 weapons should get the upgrade because "It's a finished product and performs its role just fine." DIRECT QUOTEQuote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
As far as your 99 weapon and your deserving of the increase while condemning everyone else who you say are also finished, go and ask a 99 afterglow person how Completely finished and deserving of the same they deserve.
You cant say 85 isnt finished without saying 99 isnt finished because as you say they are both finished products and perform the role just fine however if you say 99 is finished then by proxy 85 is also finished and equally deserving of a damage increase. -
05-14-2013, 01:46 PMAlerithYour entire post if fallacious, as a 85-95 weapon is not a 99 weapon. An 85-95 RME should not be comparable to a normal 99 weapon at any point, regardless of its status as a complete weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
There is no level difference between a 99 and a 99 with afterglow, therefore it is acceptable for a 99 without afterglow to be comparable to a normal 99 weapon while it is unacceptable for an 85-95 weapon to be comparable to the same.
Not once did I claim to have a 99 weapon, nor the right to have mine increased while condemning others. I have an 85 Almace and a 90 Ochain. I am speaking from the position of the man on the bottom rung, and I STILL believe that only 99 (without/without afterglow) is acceptable. I do not expect my 85 Almace to get a stat boost to make it superior in damage, because there already exist trials for that. The difference between the 99 and 99 with afterglow is non existent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajikuro
Also, I highly doubt that the majority of players with afterglow feel they are more entitled to the upgrade than any other non-afterglow 99 holder. -
05-14-2013, 02:14 PMDragoy><)))°~Ʒ
I might take it as far as to say that the level 75 relic and mythic weapons are finished. Everything past that I see as upgrades.
The empyrean weapons are obviously different in that they were not created during the level 75 era. I'm quite indecisive about when I think they're complete. I want to say it's when you get the actual weapon, its name and its form, but I also want to say it's when you get the weapon skill. Anything past that are definitely upgrades.
Afterglow, however, I don't even consider to be an upgrade. More like an insult to what other things the items/money could be used for! Not insulting those who have completed that trial; I only hope those people feel good about going fer it. ^^;
Yeah... most probably wont agree with me too much here, but that's fine, and to be expected! I wouldn't be shoving my opinion upon others, I just wanted to say that I agree on that the Afterglow-trial is not needed to have a finished product.
As for the damage boost, I wouldn't mind if they adjusted the lower level versions. I might even think that the 'super weapons' should be better than some of the higher level not—so—super weapons even (mainly thinking of Trial of the Magians weapons here), but they already mentioned they're going for the 99 versions only (afterglow doesn't matter, and yeah, not like they haven't gone back changing their plans before, right), and I have no problem with that even though I have only ever made one level 99 weapon (Mandau) and that was for a friend even.
I might get my empyreans to 99 when I can solo Voidwatch. >:D -
05-15-2013, 12:03 AMFrankReynolds
I dunno, I kinda think they need to make it scale from 75/80. I don't think a guy who has a 95 relic and 4 umbril marrows should do 100 less damage per swing than a guy with a 99 relic.
Somehow I think that they had planned to release the equipment much more slowly so that everyone had an opportunity to catch up, but the bad reactions to the expansion forced them to speed up the release cycle. Now there is a huge gap between gear levels. -
05-15-2013, 01:34 AMKarbuncleI actually agree and rate up pretty much all of your posts on this subject, this, I'm a little "no" on.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
Personally, I think it should. I'm not getting a Delve weapon because I'm 29k/30k, Just not how it works. They want to buff the 99 Versions because buffing the 90 or 95 will just make it more of the same problem. They want people who worked the stupidity of 99's to be able to use them, not that 90/95 Emps are still > Every non-RME.
And essentially, what they're doing is making the 99Relics go up the gear ladder like the rest of gear/weapons which are level "100, 110, and 120" or such, so they're making 99 Relics "Level 110" or so, which i think is a good idea. Saddly that means if they release level 130/140/150 weapons later, we might just be back at the same problem... but its whatevs TBH, I think It'll be easier for me to let my Mandau die now that I've given up on THF Entirely... since TH is useless, Despoil/Steal don't work on new mobs, Nothing's dropped gil since WoTG so Mug/Gilfinder are more useless... Just a dead job, and I'm liking PUP and MNK more cause i got the shiny Delve h2h :3 -
05-15-2013, 03:02 AMDemonmaniacRated up for this part :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
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05-15-2013, 05:44 AMOkipuitWe've received similar feedback outside of the forum as well and are currently working on making it possible to implement this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kihrre
Once we are at the stage where we can show you a sample, we'll be sure to post an image! -
05-15-2013, 06:55 AMFrankReynoldsI guess I see what you mean. I just hate the idea of such a huge performance gap on anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
On a related note, I have all the currency to build a Mandau now, but I'm on the fence about doing it because I'm not sure if they will ever upgrade these weapons again. I may just bazaar it all and spend the gil on something else (not sure what to buy now that these weapons have an uncertain future). I really wanted a shiny gold knife or some spharai for my monk though.
/sigh -
05-15-2013, 07:01 AMRiggs
please can you consider the expense of upgrading a relic from level 95 to 99, 5 umbral marrows at 15 mil each may not have been to bad when it was the final upgrade of the best weapon but considering the ease of newer better weapons the expense of this upgrade is just not worth it.
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05-15-2013, 10:39 AMArkista
Dev Team I have a question about unlocking the Emp weapon skills most people are saying level 99 Emp or 99 WoE "Coin" weapons should be used to unlock but what about the ones who made more than one Emp and have the 85 Versions any way to make it so that the 85 version could unlock the weapon skill? I would not mind losing an 85 version forever just to unlock a weapon skill. A lot of people like myself don't have the time to play all day every day, maybe 8 years ago when I was still a kid but not these days.
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05-15-2013, 03:37 PMVoldWell, I had just bought 5 marrows/60 mil to take my mandua to 99 just a week or two before SoA was released. I wanted to get it done before I got busy with new stuff. Let me tell you, I regret the decision. So I don't know, might want to take the gil instead if you can't live with a possible future trophy item.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankReynolds
I was pretty firm on my stance never to give in to that 99 ADL trial nonsense but I had taken 6 months off after a very large sum of gil was lost trying to HQ cursed hauberk -1s after my first three HQs that I nailed quickly my first couple of times out. I seriously blew like over 500k per synth, 25 million or so with NQ after NQ, break after insanely high break rate break. I was still ahead but damn that hurt my desire to play. Came back, got weak and looking for a reason to hang around, spent 60 million gil on Mandau 99. Not one of my proudest moments knowing what I know now. Maybe it wasn't wasted, maybe it was. But I do know you are best off sleeping on it for at least many many nights if you have any urge left for the gold.
It's quite the gamble. Also, anyone who ever finished a relic without buying currency or finished a mythic(in any way they could) to 99 does not deserve to be told their princess is in another castle, is all I'm saying. I'll live if I'm boned but it's just a damn crying shame to see certain people that really have given this game their all be so easily crapped on. They didn't even get the slightest of respect! (I mean damn it's like, you have afterglow 99 weap? Yeah I'm not impressed, sorry. You have a mythic? Oh shit!) So for SE it's like, here's uber new weapons practically free for all and here's stuff that can be sold if you don't want to do most of the work. Oh wait you no happy? Oh gosh we didn't have a clue about RME we new crew, here you have unlocked WS! Oh you no happy? Gosh we really don't know about RME, we'll upgrade their base damage for now but you should know they won't be #1 anymore ok ok ^.^
For reals? It's not the end of the universe or anything but damn dog, that's cold. At least the majority of players will be wielding decent weaponry for group stuff here on out, I guess? -
05-16-2013, 02:17 AMRyolen
I'm a bit confused guys. I'm pretty sure the ones that are gonna be equally matched with the REM weaps are the delve plasm ones not the delve boss ones. Getting to rank 15 is somewhat expensive, either through plasm or gil. I could've sworn I read somewhere though that they were increasing the rank to 20(+)..in which case would be very similar to obtaining a REM since it'll take several weeks and or months to obtain capped rank.
I see the delve boss weaps like I see the Legion/VW/Odin2 Lance, really awesome dropped weaps. Not the ones competing with REM though.
Your thoughts? -
05-16-2013, 04:07 AMUmichi
depends on the rarity and how long until delve bosses are on farm status by major linkshells
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05-16-2013, 04:18 AMAsymptoticAll of the boss weapons are better than fully upgraded plasm weapons by 10% or more (sometimes a lot more)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryolen
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05-16-2013, 04:27 AMRyolen
Yea Asy I know this, but Im talking about further ranks added to the current plasm weapons, possibly increasing damage and or WS damage or something. At rank 15 the delve weapons are nice but wont beat out delve boss or the upgraded REM whenever that hits. The delve boss weapons cannot possibly be the REM equivalent because theyre just a random drop, not built.
Idk where I read it but I saw that they were making the plasm weapons rankable to 20 or maybe 25? idr now. The cost of rank points needed to cap it at that point would be very similar to upgrading a REM which is why it makes perfect sense.
Sorry for typos im at work on my cell XD -
05-16-2013, 07:12 AMOakrest
I updated my lengthy post here with: "... AH weapons are not a bad thing (a nice option for new players catching up with end content). They just should only ever be a close 2nd to R/M/E."
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05-16-2013, 01:46 PMKombys
REM and walk of echos Weapons all them are time and hard work but what about Glowing Weapons (Borealis, Murasamemaru, etc, etc) those weapons are a lot of time and money to get, if you do math you can see buying 5 pulse cell for any of those weapons will be > Walk of echos weapons, Glowing weapons have unique stats and hidden effects but even with all that, they will be useless if not already are useless, any plans on upgrading those weapons SE/DEV Team or just letting them die? if dont play onupgrade, whata bout let us slip them?
Honestly i'd like to see an upgrade on those weapons -
05-17-2013, 12:09 AMKincard
Bit too lazy to read through the whole thread so dunno if these have been mentioned:
1. Please make it so that either 85 or 90 Empyreans can unlock the weapon skill as the 99 Coins can- given how much easier WoE is now it's actually not too much of a stretch to compare it to finishing an 85 or 90 Empyrean.
2. I suppose you can make relic WSs unlockable too, but it's not like people will bother with any of them without AM- MAYBE Catastrophe in a pinch, heh.