For every 20 tp you spend on steps, you get 100 tp back from reverse flourish. You need to learn to play DNC better, or learn something about the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I didn't say you had to level WHM. I said that if you need a dedicated healer, you should just bring one, instead of using a shitty one (regain slow DNC). Since we're talking about Abyssea, though, there's barely anything you need a healer for. If you have a DNC, and you're low on healing, you're better off throwing the DNC on it with DD atmas because they probably won't take as much damage as any other job would.Quote:
They ARE good ideas, when the conditions are right. Is it the number one, best idea for everything? Of course not. Choosing not to play WHM is not choosing to be lazy, it's choosing to do what's fun and enjoyable over what's not. This is an MMORPG with thousands of players.
I have 4 jobs at 99. 3 of them are geared.Quote:
It's not required of everyone to have all 20 jobs leveled up to 99 with full gear sets for all of them. You may have forgotten that because it's relatively easy to level up a job now. Only an elitist would demand the maximally optimal conditions for everything.
No it doesn't. This still doesn't make slowed-regain DNC a good idea for a healer.Quote:
Something doesn't have to be perfectly 100% optimal to work just fine and be a good, workable idea.
I said none of these things.Quote:
Players do not HAVE to level up WHM to heal, players do not HAVE to level up MNK or WAR to DD or tank, players do not HAVE to level up BLM to cast damaging magic, players don't even HAVE to level up THF to get any TH anymore. If people listen to you, they'll think they HAVE to do everything the same way in order to enjoy the game or be rewarded, and that's not true.
I only hate you if you're a crappy player. Number of jobs levelled has no bearing on this. If the best you could think of to do with your DNC was put on regain atmas and stand back and waltz, then you're a crappy player.Quote:
So hey, all of you who haven't gotten all jobs 99! You're all lazy bums! Get out there and don't play any other part of the game until you have them all done and have amazing gear sets for all of them, because everyone will hate you if you're "sub-optimal!"
How is getting XP while AFK when I wouldn't otherwise be on the game not optimal?Quote:
Leeching is hardly optimal either, but people, even elitists, do that all the time. That doesn't make any sense to me, it sounds like not practicing what one preaches.
Whoosh.Quote:
Umm, no, we haven't established that.
ITT: 2010Quote:
Also, this wasn't used in an EXP party, it was used on abyssea HNMs. I'd like to see you waltz every time the recast comes up against the game's most dangerous NMs that people generally avoid having more than 1-2 people meleeing on at a time and not run out of TP.
Also calling Abyssea NMs dangerous doesn't speak much for your credibility.
If we're talking about NMs that are actually dangerous, we're talking Arch Dynamis Lord, Arch Diabolos, potentially Arch Angra Mainyu, and maybe Voidwatch. DNC has no business healing in any of those events.
Personally, I tanked everything in Abyssea on DNC ... from Glavoid to Rani, because this was its most effective use at the time.
No, my definition of leeching is a DNC being useless. The job has a terrible enough reputation without bad players making it worse.Quote:
Leeching is doing nothing when you could be and are expected to be doing something. Leeching is NOT simply being less than 100% perfectly optimal while still actively participating. Your definition of leeching describes 99% of players who cannot obtain optimal gear or haven't been playing long enough to obtain it.
Like I said, I have 4 jobs, 3 of which are geared. But you know what? You're right. It's a MMO. If you don't want to level X job that makes Y event more efficient, take someone else who does.Quote:
I take the jobs I play very seriously, and I do gear them all up as best I can. I also try to find creative and effective ways to use them where people don't expect. I'll ask "Is this possible?" then try it. "Hey cool, it is!" Just because one chooses to stick to a limited set of jobs, does not mean they're being "lazy."
hey, it's their money, they can do what they want with it. ;)
Leeching in video games. Good or bad?
Printable View
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03-23-2012, 07:06 AMAsymptotic
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03-23-2012, 10:28 AMhexxen
So here is my two cents:
1) Exping is a HUGE part of RPGs but it was enjoyable in FFXI for a long time. I LOVED making parties and going and killing dhamels in Bibiki and Puddings in Mt.Z (though that could be done solo but was still a blast). The fact is I left before Abyssea arrived and now that I am back I ONLY Exp in Aby. It probably isn't impossible but putting together a regular party to just go have fun is something that you can pretty much NOT DO ANYMORE. On there is no low level gear on the AH (at least on my server) so gearing low level jobs so you could party is actually pretty intense and time consuming collecting crafters to make it for you. So LEECHING (Keying or KI holding (dont know what this one is though) or paying) is your only option now. This means that EXPing is now not interesting at all and insanely stupid. I have fallen asleep on parties before and woke up to be 99 and sent tells to people thanking them. I agree with the statement that EXPn is no longer a factor in FFXI even though it is an RPG. Thus, Leeching is OK in my book wither it be Keyers or out right leechers.
2) The second kind of leeching out side of exp is the MASS AMOUNT OF PEARL and Peptobismal people. FFXI is all about gear. Why would you level a job and not gear it if you are going to actually use it? Gear swaps DO MATTER. Emp gear is CAKE to get. Most of is can be soloed on several jobs but there is never really a reason to because other people are always lookn for the other seals cause everyone has every job now. What is even more laughable is the people who get Emps for jobs that they are still using Pearl on. Why go after the harder stuff first? I would agree that the person who created this thread through her own admition is a leech when it comes to not exp parties with the gear and stuff she/he (it is a mithra after all) chooses. Because so many people level jobs like this now it is now policy within my group that if we need a few extra hands for procs we check gear before we set out. You can not kill ADL or Botulos Rex with an Askar SAM or a a teal BLM.
So to wrap up. Leeching is neither good nor bad in exp parties because it has become a necessity in the game. Real parties no longer exist on a frequent enough basis to be a viable option. Leeching end game by being gimp and not realizing you are wrong when you say gear swaps only take up inventory is BAD. -
03-23-2012, 03:13 PMKrashport
Thread topic: Leeching in video games. Good or bad?
Play Final Fantasy XI how you want to play and enjoy yourself, After all it's just a game, There is no wrong or right way to play "any" Game, I will say this though.. there is always ways to become better at games if one so chooses if not that's fine to, To each their own it's your time and money. The cool part is that in time you'll become better anyways. Does this effect me or should it effect anyone else? No; Why? Cause I choose to be there.
QQ (Crying) on the forums about how others play a game. Most people are laughing and its surely not with you. Seems "these" kinda of people (You know who you are) been playing Final Fantasy XI a bit hard... mostly anything within this game can be solo/duo/trio. Just enjoy yourself it's your time and money as well and if you can't go play an offline game or go grab a coda, Cause this game will go on without you trust me. People choose to join parties for chatting/leeching/KI holding/keys/melee/healing/chillin/smokin/meet others/drinkin/nukin/skillups/support/TE/f@ck!n~the list goes on... -
03-23-2012, 07:05 PMRezeak
Leeching in video games. Good or bad?
Neither
Honestly i play with a group of friends and plenty of times one of us has made and the rest of us have leeched who cares if pple have an issue with that they can drop party the thing is most pple are to lazy to make there own none leech partys so w/e leeching is easy.
Honestly exp is boring anyway it's just bad game design that makes me leech if there was more to it i'd enjoy it.
ps love joining a NM trail hunting group going to bed and having 4/4 done ^^. -
03-23-2012, 07:53 PMAsymptoticTrial of the MagiansQuote:
Originally Posted by Rezeak
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03-24-2012, 01:12 AMCollavoce
What I've noticed the most recently is that there is a big divide between the people who like taking their time and going through the whole process and people who want to do endgame ASAP. I think SE should really take a good look at the Everquest model and look into making servers with different functionalities/rules.
I would definitely sign up for a more oldschool server, since it would be easier to start at the same level as a community. Based on how popular the new and progression servers are on EQ, I think FFXI would benefit greatly. -
03-24-2012, 02:45 AMhikoso did I. My sam was 75, close to full merit when ToAU was released, finished cop before any nerf.also killed DL @75 without relic (before 2handed weapon buff).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagagemini
I did. but I enjoyed so much the journey that i got my 2nd 75 in campain when you could get XP from AFKing fortification and didnt lvl any other job over sub lvl the (boring) old way. FFXI XP system fail!Quote:
You prob never felt an accomplishment of getting your first 75 or got mad from leveling down because you got it all spoon fed.
No I just do what I enjoy doing. Bashing monster for hours for half a lvl is not something I enjoy!Quote:
Or you forgot that you had these feelings and became just another sad player hunting for endless gear hunger and nothing else matter in the game for you.
I was still doing dyna after my jobs was 5/5, limbus while I couldn't equip homam nor nashira
How can you call me a "sad player hunting for endless gear" -
03-24-2012, 12:33 PMShadowsongThis is true, but only one of the two paths is encouraged by SE. If people like taking their time, maybe they should play a newer MMO that is just starting out (ie much slower)Quote:
Originally Posted by Collavoce
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03-24-2012, 02:58 PMLoshiniloi
In terms of leaching I can say is that it will get you higher in the levels yes. But you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes down to skills on the battlefield. High levels don't count for jack squat when can't land a hit on a monster. If people plan to leach a job just put certain "spots" along the line so you can stop and skill up. When I Abyssea my BLU from 45 to 60, I stopped at 60 so I could skill up my Blue Magic, sword was already high because I had leveled PLD. Just put stop points on a job so you can skill up and learn how the job works. Flying from 45 or so to 99 and saying "I know what I'm doing on this job" and actually KNOWING what to do are two separate things.
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03-24-2012, 03:15 PMArconWhy stop points? Why not get all the leveling done at once and then learn how the job works? There's more opportunities to learn about the job at higher levels than lower, unless you actually do content at 80~90, like try to solo sea or sky or things like that. Apart from that it's best to shoot for the top and then devote time and patience to the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loshiniloi
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03-24-2012, 03:34 PMDallas
If it weren't for leeching, there'd only be 2-3 SMN per server. Almost all of them were invited to exp parties based on subjob skills.
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03-25-2012, 09:20 AMLoshiniloiThat is true, I completely agree with you. But when you take into account of how easy Sky and Sea is if you have a good stratrgy and job layout put together its really just treating your experience with kid gloves or no gloves at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcon
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03-25-2012, 11:32 AMAlhanelemI can spend more than 100 TP in the time it takes to do 2 steps. You need to learn to play DNC better, or learn something about the job.Quote:
For every 20 tp you spend on steps, you get 100 tp back from reverse flourish. You need to learn to play DNC better, or learn something about the job.
And my definition of trolling is this quotation. What planet are you on where DNC has a 'terrible' reputation anyway? Last I checked every DD on the planet loved haste samba and steps if nothing else.Quote:
No, my definition of leeching is a DNC being useless. The job has a terrible enough reputation without bad players making it worse.
DNC can be used in many ways in many situations in many events. They're not useless, and a couple of people with an unusual means of handling a problem situation does not detract from any intelligent person's opinion of the job. And by 'intelligent' I mean an IQ greater than that of a smart rock.
Well, duh. This is why it's called a massively multiplayer role playing game. You're SUPPOSED to pool your capabilties with other players, inviting other people who play the classes you don't if you really need them. Frankly though, that unless a WHM is absolutely required for an event, I really don't give a damn who does the healing as long as people don't die. WHMs don't make enemies die faster, they make *you* NOT die faster. If other people can make you *not die* fast enough, then the WHM's impact on your 'make them die' efficiency is zero.Quote:
You're right. It's a MMO. If you don't want to level X job that makes Y event more efficient, take someone else who does.
You say this now, but any elitist will tell you to go level another job if you don't have the most optimal one. "PUP? No thanks, go level WAR plz! SMN? DNC? SCH? Go level WHM plz. DRK? lolDRK." It's nice if you don't use number of jobs leveled as an indicator of how good a player is, but it happens far too often.Quote:
Number of jobs levelled has no bearing on this.
There are abyssea NMs that can be called "dangerous" if you aren't using a brew. My credibility isn't hurting at all.Quote:
Also calling Abyssea NMs dangerous doesn't speak much for your credibility.
Troll bait taken, hope you were happy and had popcorn ready. Leeching? well, I'd post something on topic, but I've already repeated my thoughts there a few times already. Leeching is only bad if someone your group didn't specifically allow to leech is leeching when he/she was needed for a real purpose. -
03-25-2012, 02:23 PMZerich
wait, there are people who still play dnc as a healing job...
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03-25-2012, 06:51 PMRitsuka
Its not only skill you need but its also good gear. Avesta didn't get that good in 20 mins dear. And if you don't know who that is check out youtube. Was soloing stuff at lvl 75 when that was the level cap =o
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03-25-2012, 06:52 PMEriThere are. Being one of those i can tell you... despite the ocasional 'Spot Healing' you are Petty Mutch sitting on you Tp. Not Wsing at a Time where its save to ws is a 'Sin'Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerich
but not being able to make up for that tp (you lost in WSing) is a gearter 'sin'. And haveing Saber Dance doesnt mean you have to put it on all Day.....
Starting to like you~ made my day!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
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03-26-2012, 12:22 AMArchmageLeeching Bad or Good? Here is what I think...
Is it bad or good?
-Here is why I think it is a bad thing... there is no fun in having to pay every where for EXP/Merit and I dont like having to fork about 450k-500k to a RMT that I just know going to sell my gil to make RL cash :mad: or make Relics. It seams that you cant even PT in Pal Mines or Abyssea without paying
-Here is the good things... you can get your levels very fast and dont need to be by the game and do something else and if you need you can get 30 merits just like that :p
Other Notes:
Abyssea Leach needs to be at less 70+ to enter Like Dynamis
and its not like your paying for your skills ups lol :P -
03-26-2012, 01:18 AMLordos
What i think about leeching. FC party i guess everyone is agreeing with me that leeching. For me is even Keying leeching or going afk more then 5 minute it's leeching. FC is like a cheat ingame, after the cheat you are max lvl it not so fast like a cheat but hase same effect. Keying is also a cheat you are abusing a Bug ingame for getting faster exp. Yeah it not so bad like FC leeching but still bad. I missing the old exp party i had so much fun even it took so long it was fun. I have no plan's in lvling any job because lvl is boring 2 lvl, Book burn no thanks -.- 18 ppl abusing a ep mob :X. For me even Book burn with 18 ppl kind of leeching.
Leeching is Bad without question. Cheating and Leeching is same. Lvling is a part of the game (for me the bigst part), and when you take this part away, what remains??? noting tbh. -
03-26-2012, 12:34 PMZerich3rd party tools is cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
Leeching is getting past the (never was fun, never will be) grind that exists in all mmo's, without wasting your life. -
03-26-2012, 02:20 PMArconNo. This is not a bug, this was deliberately done by SE. You can tell easily, because they already had a working system that would lower EXP rewards if the level difference between party members was too great, namely the regular old EXP system. Yet they decided, for some reason, to remove the EXP penalty for that. Why do you think that was? Do you think they accidentally rewrote the entire EXP system?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
It also shows that they considered the case of low level players, which is why don't get any EXP at first, until you kill a bunch of mobs, if your level is too low.
Then what do all those cheaters do with all the time they save by cheating EXP, if there is nothing else? That's one of the most ignorant opinions I've ever heard. It seems like you've never done anything but EXP in your whole FFXI career. Let me ask you, seeing how you're Lv99, what do you do currently?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
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03-26-2012, 05:27 PMShadowsongFalse, and incredibly ignorant. I have not exped more than about 3-4 hours in the past ~6 months, and I play everyday. How do you explain that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
I'm obviously just sitting in Jeuno doing nothing........... /sarcasm off.
There are many people in this thread who would agree with you that they enjoy leveling, but not a single person would agree with you that "nothing remains" besides it. How long have you been playing anyway? -
03-27-2012, 12:23 AMDoombringerQuote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
jesus fuck can i anti-like a post? like this is so insane that i don't feel the need to dissect it and respond to it bit by bit, because i know everyone else will also view it as insane... but you still gotta voice some discontent or else he might view silence as consent or agreement.... so yah... ANTI-LIKE!!!
-1! -
03-27-2012, 06:51 AMLordos
I want 2 lvl my job normal, i dont need damm book or Abyssea party, because off ppl dont want lvl in a normal party you are forced 2 do book and abyssea. It not fair for ppl the want lvl normal and it not fun 2.
@Zerich
Lol, you're contradicting yourself, gaming is a waist or time.
@Arcon
1. When everyone take key the dont need any low lvl char do 2 this. ANd you dont even need key play the minigame, i lvl Solo from 95-99 in abyssea wihtout key and stay there like 3h and had 200 left when i left.
2. Questen if you have done all the Mission and finshed quest and you got some good gear for 3 job. The only think left is lvling. Yeah ppl nowdays stay in port Jeuno semi afk waiting for shout lol that what ppl do -.- boring
@Shadowsong
1. Hmm you better have exp a little how you can be 96 rng O.o? /sarcasm off
Well you dont more then 6 hour 2 get a job 2 99 lol.
2. I never sayed that. There is only lvling remind guess this is missunderstoond
@Doombringer
I dislike your post 2 wtf is up with you dont need rude. /ignorelist -
03-27-2012, 09:24 AMZerichIs this a question about waist size or time?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
What? -
03-27-2012, 11:18 AMShadowsongi hate youA) RNG is not my mainQuote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
B) RNG went from 90-96 blue proccing NMs, not EXPing
No, you said exactly this, there is no "misunderstoond"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
Get outQuote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
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03-27-2012, 11:23 AMShadowsong...and holy crap I think my eyes are bleedingQuote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
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03-27-2012, 02:19 PMArconIt's those Germans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowsong
"Some good gear"? Do you know how long it takes to get some of the better gear options? People don't wait for shouts for nothing. I still do Dynamis, Einherjar, Salvage, Voidwatch, Abyssea and even Limbus. And that's just regular events. I camp some NMs (like that damn Elel) and farm sea for JoL/AV pops and will probably do Legion soon. And my biggest timesink is probably helping LS people with other things, because the game is not just played for yourself. Seal parties, Abyssea NM hunts, sky farming, missions/quests, etc. I haven't leveled in over a year and I played constantly throughout that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
Why do you want to be Lv99? If there's nothing for you to do at 99, why do you even level your jobs? Just so you can brag about having done it? I do it because I wanna use them, for non-EXP stuff. -
03-27-2012, 04:32 PMShadowsongAbysseaQuote:
Originally Posted by Lordos
Empyreans
AF3+2
Limbus
Neo-Dynamis
Relic Weapons
Relic Armor Augments
Einherjar
Salvage
Neo-Nyzul
Land Kings / KSNMs
KCNMs / HKCNMs
Sea
Sky Augments
Crafting / Synergy / Fishing
Voidwatch
ZNMs / Mythics
Magian Trials
Walk of Echoes
Legion
Campaign
You have obviously done all of those things right? I mean, you only have leveling left to do right?!
Nothing to do, please.
edit: Seriously, do you know how long it takes to gear a SINGLE job well, let alone three? So clueless, yet so self-righteous. I bet you think full Perle is "gearing a job well" -
03-28-2012, 06:43 PMFupafighter
Hell leveling is the only part of this game that bores me these days. The main reason why I stoped lvling jobs. If people ever did oldschool sync pties like the old days, would be seriously better than GOV and you would't have to skillup. Lesser colibri, caederva mire camps used to be rly fun. And merit pties. Leeching in the game isn't bad. It gives you the option, do i care enough about enjoying and learning my job and skilling it along the way, or do I just want to level it fast and do other things and read threads and experience the job at the level it is actually relevant with all of it's JA and gear. It's preference. I personally don't think leveling your job from 1-99 the oldschool way makes you a better player, but I highly recommend that if you leech, you atleast take the time to look at gear advice threads and get gear prior to "leeching" it up. I know I haven't leveled a job w.o having a full set of +2 waiting for me since I finished my other jobs >.<